Nimrod

[Is]

I'm reading "Bible Numerics" by Peter Ruckman. He says that the number one means unity, then he brings up the Tower of Babel and Nimrod in Gen.11:6.

"And the Lord said, Behold the people are one, and they all have one language; and this they have begin to do: and now nothing will restrain them, which they have imagined to do."

When I read it my first thought was how much of a threat can humans be to God? Then I realized the impact of the passage is:

" and now nothing will be restrained from them, which "THEY" imagine to do."

Nimrod means "Let Us Revolt", it comes from the Hebrew word "marad", meaning "rebel".

There really isn't much more information than that in scripture about Nimrod and so other sources have to be untilized.

Josephus says:

"Now it was Nimrod who excited them to such an affront and contempt of God. He was the grandson of Ham, the Son of Noah-a bold man, and of great strength of hand. He persuaded them not to ascribe to God, as if it through his means they were, but to believe that it was their own courage which procured that happiness. He also gradually changed the government into tyranny-seeing no other way of turning men from the fear of God, but bring them into a constant dependence upon his own power.

He also would be revenged on God, if he should have a mind to drown the world again; for he would build a tower too high for the waters to be able to reach! and that he would avenge himself on God for destroying their forefathers!" (Ant. I: iv: 2)

That clears a lot up for me because I had always thought how dumb could they have been to think they could really reach God! It looks like the purpose of the tower was to escape flood waters.

 

[GodIsSalvation]

I've heard their Nimrod theories before, but none of them really hold any weight. Nimrod is kinda interesting. Long cast as a villain by the lying pen of scribes and heretics, it actually kinda surprised me when reading the Bible just how minor of a character he actually is. In fact the Bible seems to speak of him favorably. It is debatable that Nimrod may have actually been a hero type figure, or at the least, an early post-Flood believer of God. There's very little known about him, so I suppose we will have to wait until the end of the world to find out. We can cover everything in the Bible about Nimrod in one post.

Genesis 10:6-12

[SUP]6 [/SUP]And the sons of Ham; Cush, and Mizraim, and Phut, and Canaan.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And the sons of Cush; Seba, and Havilah, and Sabtah, and Raamah, and Sabtechah: and the sons of Raamah; Sheba, and Dedan.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]And Cush begat Nimrod: he began to be a mighty one in the earth.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]He was a mighty hunter before the Lord: wherefore it is said, Even as Nimrod the mighty hunter before the Lord.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And the beginning of his kingdom was Babel, and Erech, and Accad, and Calneh, in the land of Shinar.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Out of that land went forth Asshur, and builded Nineveh, and the city Rehoboth, and Calah,
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And Resen between Nineveh and Calah: the same is a great city.


1 Chronicles 1:8-10


[SUP]8 [/SUP]The sons of Ham; Cush, and Mizraim, Put, and Canaan.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And the sons of Cush; Seba, and Havilah, and Sabta, and Raamah, and Sabtecha. And the sons of Raamah; Sheba, and Dedan.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And Cush begat Nimrod: he began to be mighty upon the earth.

 

[sparkman]

Alexander Hislop wrote this book called Two Babylons where he attempted to relate just about every pagan god and goddess to Nimrod and his supposed wife, Semiramis.

He then tried to relate this to the Roman Catholic Church in Revelation 17 and declare the Roman Catholic Church to be the Babylonian Mystery Religion.

The kind of logic that he used was poor.

Bill wears a red shirt and blue jeans.
Tom wears a red shirt and loafers.
Robert wears a blue shirt and loafers.

Conclusion: Robert is Bill.

That's how illogical his reasoning was. Plus, he incorrectly quoted his sources.

By the way this has nothing to do with the OP's point but I thought I'd add it based on your remarks.

Peter Ruckman is a really poor source of information regardless. He's a KJV Only guy who is extremely rude and holds conspiracy theories such as the CIA has implanted brain transmitters in the minds of old people, children, and black people, and that they operate underground alien breeding facilities. He also believes in an assortment of aliens who disguise themselves as humans.





Josephus' quote is legitimate though. I don't know if he's right on this, but Josephus did say something along those lines.

I've heard their Nimrod theories before, but none of them really hold any weight. Nimrod is kinda interesting. Long cast as a villain by the lying pen of scribes and heretics, it actually kinda surprised me when reading the Bible just how minor of a character he actually is. In fact the Bible seems to speak of him favorably. It is debatable that Nimrod may have actually been a hero type figure, or at the least, an early post-Flood believer of God. There's very little known about him, so I suppose we will have to wait until the end of the world to find out. We can cover everything in the Bible about Nimrod in one post.

Genesis 10:6-12

[SUP]6 [/SUP]And the sons of Ham; Cush, and Mizraim, and Phut, and Canaan.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And the sons of Cush; Seba, and Havilah, and Sabtah, and Raamah, and Sabtechah: and the sons of Raamah; Sheba, and Dedan.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]And Cush begat Nimrod: he began to be a mighty one in the earth.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]He was a mighty hunter before the Lord: wherefore it is said, Even as Nimrod the mighty hunter before the Lord.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And the beginning of his kingdom was Babel, and Erech, and Accad, and Calneh, in the land of Shinar.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Out of that land went forth Asshur, and builded Nineveh, and the city Rehoboth, and Calah,
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And Resen between Nineveh and Calah: the same is a great city.


1 Chronicles 1:8-10


[SUP]8 [/SUP]The sons of Ham; Cush, and Mizraim, Put, and Canaan.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And the sons of Cush; Seba, and Havilah, and Sabta, and Raamah, and Sabtecha. And the sons of Raamah; Sheba, and Dedan.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And Cush begat Nimrod: he began to be mighty upon the earth.

 

[GodIsSalvation]

@Sparkman I have heard the Semiramis stuff before also, but that one is even more outlandish than the theories about Nimrod because Semiramis was a queen of Assyria hundreds to possibly even over a millenia of years after Nimrod would have lived lol.

I don't really care for revisionists much, or as they are more appropriately termed, heretics.

Josephus while he's a more direct source, you have to keep in mind Josephus was a Pharisee. Though some argue he may have converted to Christianity in his later years after defecting to Rome. I suppose like Nimrod that Josephus is one that for now only God knows the full story on him and that we'll have to wait to find out.

Also just to be clear, I don't fault ya'll for reading anything. Just be mindful of the author and keep in mind The Bible always take precedent over the writings outside the Bible.

 

[sparkman]

@Sparkman I have heard the Semiramis stuff before also, but that one is even more outlandish than the theories about Nimrod because Semiramis was a queen of Assyria hundreds to possibly even over a millenia of years after Nimrod would have lived lol.

I don't really care for revisionists much, or as they are more appropriately termed, heretics.

Josephus while he's a more direct source, you have to keep in mind Josephus was a Pharisee. Though some argue he may have converted to Christianity in his later years after defecting to Rome. I suppose like Nimrod that Josephus is one that for now only God knows the full story on him and that we'll have to wait to find out.

Also just to be clear, I don't fault ya'll for reading anything. Just be mindful of the author and keep in mind The Bible always take precedent over the writings outside the Bible.

Yeah, the Semiramis thing is pretty hilarious. A lot of the propaganda that anti-holiday, anti-Trinitarian, anti-Catholic, Torah observing people claim is based on a very poor view of history and a lot of twisted "facts".

I fell for a lot of this type of stuff as an Armstrongite.

I am not saying that there are good points regarding some of these views, but the propaganda that supports their views is sometimes hilarious, and some of them just accept it as unquestionable fact. Some of it is about fifth generation Hislop that they got off some website..some of it even comes from atheist or Jewish websites, both who have their own agenda to push.

They should just focus on making their arguments from Scripture and solid, unquestionable sources.

Again, this doesn't really involve the OP's remarks..there could be some truth to them. Josephus was probably speaking from the equivalent of folklore. It may be true and it may not be true.

 

[GodIsSalvation]

Yeah, the Semiramis thing is pretty hilarious. A lot of the propaganda that anti-holiday, anti-Trinitarian, anti-Catholic, Torah observing people claim is based on a very poor view of history and a lot of twisted "facts".

I fell for a lot of this type of stuff as an Armstrongite.

I am not saying that there are good points regarding some of these views, but the propaganda that supports their views is sometimes hilarious, and some of them just accept it as unquestionable fact. Some of it is about fifth generation Hislop that they got off some website..some of it even comes from atheist or Jewish websites, both who have their own agenda to push.

They should just focus on making their arguments from Scripture and solid, unquestionable sources.

Again, this doesn't really involve the OP's remarks..there could be some truth to them. Josephus was probably speaking from the equivalent of folklore. It may be true and it may not be true.

I agree indeed. I agree mostly with how a lot of their stuff is more hilarious than anything, it's pretty obvious propaganda. I think it kinda ties into the OP subject. Nimrod is sparsely talked about in the Bible. Most of what people think about Nimrod comes from sources closer to our point in time than his and for the most part those sources cast him as a villain to suit their agendas, most frequently as anti-Catholic Christian propaganda. Ironically according to the Bible the people of Nimrod's time thought he was a mighty hunter before the Lord.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Josephus' quote is legitimate though. I don't know if he's right on this, but Josephus did say something along those lines.

I'm sure that Josephus' comment reflects Jewish tradition, but it has a few problems. GOD made a covenant with Noah to never flood the earth again, so a tower would seem useless. Also, a tower would have only saved a few people and animals. Building a lot of boats would have made more sense.

The most likely interpretation of the tower with its top in the heavens is that it was a ziggurat used for astronomical purposes.

 

[JesusIsAll]

What I've always taken away from Nimrod is it seems that's where the Babylonian sort of world system of government started, which persists to this day, government of man that deigns it doesn't need God, where man see's himself on a sort of equal footing with God. Insane, senseless and foolish, that the creature, we who may as well have been born yesterday, think we can stand with the eternal Creator, that is, without the eternal Creator. It's really classic Satan, creature hubris of narcissistic evil, the unrepentant, and is it not the hubris of man, without God, to this day? All over the newspapers? Think about it: in the secular world, you only hear the name of Jesus when it's used to curse. Nimrod was neither heroic, was evil, unless you consider one of the fruits of the Spirit hunting skills.

 

[GodIsSalvation]

What I've always taken away from Nimrod is it seems that's where the Babylonian sort of world system of government started, which persists to this day, government of man that deigns it doesn't need God, where man see's himself on a sort of equal footing with God. Insane, senseless and foolish, that the creature, we who may as well have been born yesterday, think we can stand with the eternal Creator, that is, without the eternal Creator. It's really classic Satan, creature hubris of narcissistic evil, the unrepentant, and is it not the hubris of man, without God, to this day? All over the newspapers? Think about it: in the secular world, you only hear the name of Jesus when it's used to curse. Nimrod was neither heroic, was evil, unless you consider one of the fruits of the Spirit hunting skills.

And @HeRoseFromTheDead

I've heard this too. Though I don't think Nimrod started the secularist stuff because the Bible says people acknowledged he was a mighty hunter before the Lord, which would imply the people were still believers of the Lord in Nimrod's time and that Nimrod himself may have been a believer. As for whether Nimrod actually built the Tower of Babel, or whether this event happened before or after his lifetime it is not stated. We just know Nimrod gained a small kingdom which included Babel, but never says he actually built the city or tower of Babel.

As for Tower of Babel and why they wanted to build it. I don't think it was a ziggurat. I think from the Bible text it seems obvious that they wanted to make a name for themselves by building a tower to heaven and they did not want to be scattered across the earth. We know from earlier in Genesis 1 and 9 that God willed that man multiply, and to replenish and subdue the earth. So God confounded the languages and did scatter man abroad, and well, here we are today lol.

Is fascinating for sure either way. It's hard to say whether Nimrod is a hero or villain. I personally hope he was a believer in God, but only God really knows.

 

[notuptome]

From this we have the first mention of languages or tongues in the bible. Note context and cause for divers tongues.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[JesusIsAll]

From this we have the first mention of languages or tongues in the bible. Note context and cause for divers tongues.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

I've always wondered if races were created at this time, or people were grouped by racial characteristics, to share a common language. I tend to think the latter, since even science knows diversity is inherent in the DNA pool, but sometimes muse that people found themselves suddenly speaking another language, and also looking different, what a jolt that would be! The ancient times were times of God more using the overtly miraculous.

 

[JesusIsAll]

I've heard this too. Though I don't think Nimrod started the secularist stuff because the Bible says people acknowledged he was a mighty hunter before the Lord, which would imply the people were still believers of the Lord in Nimrod's time and that Nimrod himself may have been a believer.

Though a society can be thoroughly secular, by and large daily living for the world, the flesh and the devil, while paying lip service to God. These days, you don't have to go past the "church" walls. And God did break up a societal party He strongly disapproved of. Still, you're right, only God knows all these details, my only insight into Nimrod a boss I once had.

John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

 

[HQ]

The late David Flynn, in his book 'Temple at the Center of Time" had this say about Nimrod:

"Nimrod was preserved among the initiates, like Dante, as a giant and as the author of the Tower of Babel which resulted in the confusion of the languages. Nimrod, who was son of Belus (Bel "The Confounder" according to Hislop) was a Gibborim, a mighty "hunter" or tzidon. Nimrod the Cydonian was a giant of the race of Nephilim who authored the plan for the tower. Nimrod has been associated in myth with Nergal, the Babylonian god of Mars. The Tower of Babel was a tower to Mars."

Flynn seems to be implying that the tower was to be dedicated to the false god Mars. If true, one could easily conclude that such a dedication just might be a contributing factor for the flood (the wickedness of the populous notwithstanding).

 

[JesusIsAll]

Of course, no discussion of Nimrod would be complete, without this note. Or maybe notes. It always seemed Elgar made an unfortunate choice of titles, for such a sublimely beautiful piece.

[video=youtube;NhnMd1Jl7SA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhnMd1Jl7SA[/video]​

 

[Is]

I've heard their Nimrod theories before, but none of them really hold any weight. Nimrod is kinda interesting. Long cast as a villain by the lying pen of scribes and heretics, it actually kinda surprised me when reading the Bible just how minor of a character he actually is. In fact the Bible seems to speak of him favorably. It is debatable that Nimrod may have actually been a hero type figure, or at the least, an early post-Flood believer of God. There's very little known about him, so I suppose we will have to wait until the end of the world to find out. We can cover everything in the Bible about Nimrod in one post.

Genesis 10:6-12

[SUP]6 [/SUP]And the sons of Ham; Cush, and Mizraim, and Phut, and Canaan.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And the sons of Cush; Seba, and Havilah, and Sabtah, and Raamah, and Sabtechah: and the sons of Raamah; Sheba, and Dedan.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]And Cush begat Nimrod: he began to be a mighty one in the earth.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]He was a mighty hunter before the Lord: wherefore it is said, Even as Nimrod the mighty hunter before the Lord.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And the beginning of his kingdom was Babel, and Erech, and Accad, and Calneh, in the land of Shinar.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Out of that land went forth Asshur, and builded Nineveh, and the city Rehoboth, and Calah,
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And Resen between Nineveh and Calah: the same is a great city.


1 Chronicles 1:8-10


[SUP]8 [/SUP]The sons of Ham; Cush, and Mizraim, Put, and Canaan.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And the sons of Cush; Seba, and Havilah, and Sabta, and Raamah, and Sabtecha. And the sons of Raamah; Sheba, and Dedan.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And Cush begat Nimrod: he began to be mighty upon the earth.

It is debatable that Nimrod may have actually been a hero type figure, or at the least, an early post-Flood believer of God.

If he was such a believer of God why did he do what was obviously displeasing to God?

1 Chronicles 1:8-10

[SUP]10 [/SUP]And Cush begat Nimrod: he began to be mighty upon the earth.

Where does it say this was pleasing to God?


Cush was the father of Nimrod, the center of his kingdom was Babylon, Erech, Akkad and Calneh in Shinar (Gen.10:8-10) and is the first evidence of earthly imperial power that appeared in human history through the Hamitic line. It's believed the Sumerian Kish, the first city established in Mesopotamia after the Flood, took its name from Cush.

In Gen.10:8-11 we learn that Nimrod established a kingdom and it is presented as the kingdom of Babylon, which is presented in Scripture as an evil system in type and prophecy (Isa.21:9; Jer.50:24; Rev.16:19, 17:5, 18:2).

In Sumerain literature there is a man that fits the description of Nimrod. Likewise the Babylonians, Assyrians and the Hittites wrote about this person.

In the extra-Biblical literature of those people this person is referred to as Gilgamesh.

Prichard an author of the best treatise on the Gilgamesh Epic says:

"The date of the composition of the Gilgamesh Epic can therefore be fixed at about 2000 BC. But the material contained on these tablets is undoubtedly much older, as we can infer from the mere fact that the epic consists of numerous originally independent episodes, which, of course, did not spring into existence at the time of the composition of our poem but must have been current long before they were compiled and woven together to form our epic (Alexander Heidel, 1963: 15).

Yet his arrogance, ruthlessness and depravity were a subject of grave concern for the citizens of Uruk (his kingdom). They complained to the great god Anu, and Anu instructed the goddess Aruru to create another wild ox, a double of Gilgamesh, who would challenge him and distract his mind from the warrior's daughter and the nobleman's spouse, whom it appears he would not leave in peace (Roux 1966: 114).

The Epic of Gilgamseh has some very indecent sections. Alexander Heidel, first translator of the epic, had the decency to translate the vilest parts into Latin. Spieser, however, gave it to us "straight" (Prichard 1955:72).

Gilgamesh was a vile filthy man. What Josephus said in (Ant. I: iv: 2) is what is found in the Gilgamesh epics. Gilgamesh set up tyranny, he opposed God and did his utmost to get people to forsake him.

 

[Yet]

Alexander Hislop wrote this book called Two Babylons where he attempted to relate just about every pagan god and goddess to Nimrod and his supposed wife, Semiramis.

He then tried to relate this to the Roman Catholic Church in Revelation 17 and declare the Roman Catholic Church to be the Babylonian Mystery Religion.

The kind of logic that he used was poor.

Bill wears a red shirt and blue jeans.
Tom wears a red shirt and loafers.
Robert wears a blue shirt and loafers.

Conclusion: Robert is Bill.

That's how illogical his reasoning was. Plus, he incorrectly quoted his sources.

By the way this has nothing to do with the OP's point but I thought I'd add it based on your remarks.

Peter Ruckman is a really poor source of information regardless. He's a KJV Only guy who is extremely rude and holds conspiracy theories such as the CIA has implanted brain transmitters in the minds of old people, children, and black people, and that they operate underground alien breeding facilities. He also believes in an assortment of aliens who disguise themselves as humans.





Josephus' quote is legitimate though. I don't know if he's right on this, but Josephus did say something along those lines.

Where does Hislop incorrectly quote his sources.

If all the pagan elements of Rome does not come from Pergomos which came from Babylon, where did it all come from?

 

[GodIsSalvation]

@IS Show me in the Bible that Nimrod displeased the Lord. Bible only, the heretics and scribes cannot be trusted. The Bible says Nimrod was a mighty hunter before the Lord. I would think that means the Lord favored him and made him mighty. Bible also says people had a saying of "like Nimrod the mighty hunter before the Lord" which would seem to me to indicate the people of that time believed in the Lord and that Nimrod did too.

I've heard the supposed theories that Nimrod is supposed to be Gilgamesh and all that, but I don't think it holds water. I believe Gilgamesh is an entirely fictional character and never existed to begin with.

Most all ancient texts are what we'd consider indecent today. A good parallel is King Cyrus the Great. In the Bible Cyrus is highly acclaimed, even called the Lord's anointed in Isaiah 45. In the Histories of Herodotus, and supported by archaeological evidence, half the stuff Cyrus does and says I can't post on this website.

 

[GodIsSalvation]

The late David Flynn, in his book 'Temple at the Center of Time" had this say about Nimrod:

"Nimrod was preserved among the initiates, like Dante, as a giant and as the author of the Tower of Babel which resulted in the confusion of the languages. Nimrod, who was son of Belus (Bel "The Confounder" according to Hislop) was a Gibborim, a mighty "hunter" or tzidon. Nimrod the Cydonian was a giant of the race of Nephilim who authored the plan for the tower. Nimrod has been associated in myth with Nergal, the Babylonian god of Mars. The Tower of Babel was a tower to Mars."

Flynn seems to be implying that the tower was to be dedicated to the false god Mars. If true, one could easily conclude that such a dedication just might be a contributing factor for the flood (the wickedness of the populous notwithstanding).

See this isn't in the Bible though. All these writers, Hislop, Flynn, etc. that reimagine the Bible are literally heretics. That's literally the definition of heresy. You don't have to hate them or nothing, after all most of them are quite dead they write nothing any more, but their works are heresies. In order to prove Nimrod a hero or villain one has to show it in the Bible only.

Lol as an aside I have the Divine Comedy by Dante, read it back when I was 14. Remember Dante was just a poet. I remember the part about the giant Nimrod as Dante and Virgil travel to Cocytus. Lol me thinking it's called the Divine Comedy for a reason. It's a poetic parody.

 

[Is]

@IS Show me in the Bible that Nimrod displeased the Lord. Bible only, the heretics and scribes cannot be trusted. The Bible says Nimrod was a mighty hunter before the Lord. I would think that means the Lord favored him and made him mighty. Bible also says people had a saying of "like Nimrod the mighty hunter before the Lord" which would seem to me to indicate the people of that time believed in the Lord and that Nimrod did too.

I've heard the supposed theories that Nimrod is supposed to be Gilgamesh and all that, but I don't think it holds water. I believe Gilgamesh is an entirely fictional character and never existed to begin with.

Most all ancient texts are what we'd consider indecent today. A good parallel is King Cyrus the Great. In the Bible Cyrus is highly acclaimed, even called the Lord's anointed in Isaiah 45. In the Histories of Herodotus, and supported by archaeological evidence, half the stuff Cyrus does and says I can't post on this website.

The Bible says Nimrod was a mighty hunter before the Lord. I would think that means the Lord favored him and made him mighty.

"His tyranny came into a proverb as hated both God and man: for he passed not to commit cruelty even in God's presence" (Geneva Bible 1599 footnotes).

The Hebrew word for "before" is "paneh" and can have as its meaning "against".

 

[GodIsSalvation]

Though a society can be thoroughly secular, by and large daily living for the world, the flesh and the devil, while paying lip service to God. These days, you don't have to go past the "church" walls. And God did break up a societal party He strongly disapproved of. Still, you're right, only God knows all these details, my only insight into Nimrod a boss I once had.

John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

I agree with you. I can see why God confounded languages and brought an end to the vain plan to build the Tower. Bible never says Nimrod made the Tower of Babel though, or if he was even alive during that time.

Lol the thing about the boss made me laugh though.