The Deceitfulness of New.Modern.Hyper Grace
- Thread starter HeRoseFromTheDead
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
The only way to be victorious is to abide (trust in Him and believe all He has said instead of what the world says) in Him. All He wants is for us to have faith in Him but it is not an easy thing for us. The tendency is to panic in our circumstances and to try everything we can think of first EXCEPT trust. Panic over our job and how we will eat when we're laid off. Panic over health insurance. Panic over our 401k, etc.
And that's just concerning an earthly thing. If we can't believe and not worry in an earthly thing like food and shelter, how can He tell us about heavenly things? If we can't believe Him concerning something temporal and temporary, we certainly won't listen and believe about heavenly things. It would be like trying to teach algebra to someone who hadn't learned basic arithmetic yet! And if we aren't faithful with a little, we won't be faithful with more.
And that's just concerning an earthly thing. If we can't believe and not worry in an earthly thing like food and shelter, how can He tell us about heavenly things? If we can't believe Him concerning something temporal and temporary, we certainly won't listen and believe about heavenly things. It would be like trying to teach algebra to someone who hadn't learned basic arithmetic yet! And if we aren't faithful with a little, we won't be faithful with more.
G
I agree. but to just tell someone ," trust in Jesus" is not much help for the believer who just lost his life savings and his wife wants to leave him.
There are pragmatic steps that we can take, and utilize his problem solving devices for our lives.
It is the same way with, " how do we produce fruits?" what kind of advice is it to say............."well as long as your in Him and do it for Jesus, it good"
We don't just sit back in our lazy boy when we get laid off and pray for a check to just miraculously arrive, because we are trusting Jesus or have faith in Jesus. This is a walk and it takes effort and His ways. What are His ways? what are the steps we are to take when we run into problems?
There are pragmatic steps that we can take, and utilize his problem solving devices for our lives.
It is the same way with, " how do we produce fruits?" what kind of advice is it to say............."well as long as your in Him and do it for Jesus, it good"
We don't just sit back in our lazy boy when we get laid off and pray for a check to just miraculously arrive, because we are trusting Jesus or have faith in Jesus. This is a walk and it takes effort and His ways. What are His ways? what are the steps we are to take when we run into problems?
You have no idea how forcefully I agree with you!!
I keep attending services at different churches and have literally never heard practical help being taught for our walk in Christ.it is as if the preachers are evangelizing in a gathering where all mostly affirm to have already received the Holy Spirit. I know they should want to say some words for anyone new who has not received the Spirit yet, but those of us who have could benefit with further help, not always going back over foundational principles of our faith.
I have found this help from many men and women now dead but honestly, not from ones who are still alive. What I find from them is repeated basic principles mixed with history lessons and somegreek and Hebrew language thrown in.
I keep attending services at different churches and have literally never heard practical help being taught for our walk in Christ.it is as if the preachers are evangelizing in a gathering where all mostly affirm to have already received the Holy Spirit. I know they should want to say some words for anyone new who has not received the Spirit yet, but those of us who have could benefit with further help, not always going back over foundational principles of our faith.
I have found this help from many men and women now dead but honestly, not from ones who are still alive. What I find from them is repeated basic principles mixed with history lessons and somegreek and Hebrew language thrown in.
Do you know why this has come about?
I believe it is because we have a poor theology of emotions and spirituality.
It started for me realising I came from a highly disfunctional emotional family. But church did not have the language to translate this into a meaningful dialogue.
So church becomes often ideals and single phrases but without exploration of their meanings or implications.
It takes time to go deeper, and people have to be prepared to change. If you take the phrase "love" is a very powerful phrase, but if people in reality have no close relationships, do not talk about how they feel to anyone, love can become quite abstract and distant.
What many do not admit, is the default is not change, because that keeps us happy, or so our emotions tell us.
I believe it is because we have a poor theology of emotions and spirituality.
It started for me realising I came from a highly disfunctional emotional family. But church did not have the language to translate this into a meaningful dialogue.
So church becomes often ideals and single phrases but without exploration of their meanings or implications.
It takes time to go deeper, and people have to be prepared to change. If you take the phrase "love" is a very powerful phrase, but if people in reality have no close relationships, do not talk about how they feel to anyone, love can become quite abstract and distant.
What many do not admit, is the default is not change, because that keeps us happy, or so our emotions tell us.
Conclusions
I finally have come to conclusions about hyper-grace. It was too long to put here so put on a blog.
I do a conclusion because logically beliefs build from a definate assumption. Everything hangs on these assumptions and it is almost irrelevant arguing about other issues, because the two parties will never agree because the root assumptions are different.
Now these assumptions matter. We are sinners under judgement, doomed to Hell.
If this becomes we are good deed doers under judgement, doomed to Hell, you may guess things have shifted a lot.
As with all new belief systems those who assent to the ideas in general, may not in fact.
The problem is these ideas are not neutral and they define in essence what the walk with Jesus is and what walking in the Kingdom is. So this is no minor shift, but one of the whole faith.
I finally have come to conclusions about hyper-grace. It was too long to put here so put on a blog.
I do a conclusion because logically beliefs build from a definate assumption. Everything hangs on these assumptions and it is almost irrelevant arguing about other issues, because the two parties will never agree because the root assumptions are different.
Now these assumptions matter. We are sinners under judgement, doomed to Hell.
If this becomes we are good deed doers under judgement, doomed to Hell, you may guess things have shifted a lot.
As with all new belief systems those who assent to the ideas in general, may not in fact.
The problem is these ideas are not neutral and they define in essence what the walk with Jesus is and what walking in the Kingdom is. So this is no minor shift, but one of the whole faith.
This generation calls it "HYPER-Grace". Past generations called it "Once saved, always saved". I do agree that the deeper the walk, especially in the Kingdom living style, the less the debate is because the passion and hunger for lost souls to find JESUS takes pre-eminence! Debating eternally in a modern chatroom is not what JESUS had in mind when we are told to "GO ye..."
eternally-grateful....
Sit down, clear your mind and think about this statement please (It was told to me by my pastor):
"I could never be an atheist because I do NOT have the faith it takes. It takes MORE faith to be an atheist than it does to be a CHRISTIAN". The more I ponder this, the more I am inclined to believe it! I would love to hear your thoughts and other's on this...Thank you!
Sit down, clear your mind and think about this statement please (It was told to me by my pastor):
"I could never be an atheist because I do NOT have the faith it takes. It takes MORE faith to be an atheist than it does to be a CHRISTIAN". The more I ponder this, the more I am inclined to believe it! I would love to hear your thoughts and other's on this...Thank you!
I agree....It takes more faith ( which is not really faith at all ) to be an atheist then a Christian. Faith is a natural response to what people hear.
I always say that it is impossible to be a honest atheist.....They say God does not exist. " ..I ask.."Of all the knowledge that exists in this world and in the whole universe - how much do you know?..."...they say 99%...then I say is it "possible" for God to exist in the 99% of what you do not know?
Now an agnostic can be honest....I don't know...
Evolution takes GREAT faith to believe in....
...it is really a religion within itself...but they wouldn't admit it...
I always say that it is impossible to be a honest atheist.....They say God does not exist. " ..I ask.."Of all the knowledge that exists in this world and in the whole universe - how much do you know?..."...they say 99%...then I say is it "possible" for God to exist in the 99% of what you do not know?
Now an agnostic can be honest....I don't know...
Evolution takes GREAT faith to believe in....
...it is really a religion within itself...but they wouldn't admit it...Hyper-grace is not OSAS. You wish to camoflage the reality. Your second point is also wrong.
To bring people to faith you have to agree the faith you are bringing them to.
If you have just changed the relationship to sin and righteousness, heaven and hell and declared most of the christian church your enemy, it is not something we can simply agree on.
Ofcourse grace7x77 wants to play this game, because as long a parasite positions remain hidden they can get away with using christian language to spread their ideas.
Now bringing light to these realities is called walking in the light. If I am called evil, of satan for encouraging open discussion and focus on these fundamentals then I know I am fighting against principalities and dominions the heavenly realms being expressed here.
It is not difficult to say which beliefs you actually agree with and where you stand. It is not as the propoganda would have you believe just a stupid old time dispute, it is foundational fundamental faith issues.
To bring people to faith you have to agree the faith you are bringing them to.
If you have just changed the relationship to sin and righteousness, heaven and hell and declared most of the christian church your enemy, it is not something we can simply agree on.
Ofcourse grace7x77 wants to play this game, because as long a parasite positions remain hidden they can get away with using christian language to spread their ideas.
Now bringing light to these realities is called walking in the light. If I am called evil, of satan for encouraging open discussion and focus on these fundamentals then I know I am fighting against principalities and dominions the heavenly realms being expressed here.
It is not difficult to say which beliefs you actually agree with and where you stand. It is not as the propoganda would have you believe just a stupid old time dispute, it is foundational fundamental faith issues.
E
I see it two ways,
for an athiest, Paul gave is the answer in Romans 1.
rom 1: [SUP]18 [/SUP]For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, [SUP]19 [/SUP]because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. [SUP]20 [/SUP]For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse
It takes more faith to be an atheist, because you have to IGNORE all the signs and evidence of a creator. And believe all things just appeared and evolved into what they are today.
To be a christian, We take all the signs, the evidence of science, and prophesy, And the things God gave us to humble ourselves, and have complete faith in him to do what he promised he would do.
but even this is harder than religion, Because religion sees your own works, and your own deeds, it compairs yourself with other people. and hides the fact your a sinner, because you do not sin as they do. And then you have all your religious works and pride which comes from doing them (ceremony, tradition and other things) take this, and add it to the fact that evidence proves a creator. it takes LESS faith to be a religious person, than a christian.
So I woudl put christianity in between the athiest and the legalist.
for an athiest, Paul gave is the answer in Romans 1.
rom 1: [SUP]18 [/SUP]For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, [SUP]19 [/SUP]because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. [SUP]20 [/SUP]For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse
It takes more faith to be an atheist, because you have to IGNORE all the signs and evidence of a creator. And believe all things just appeared and evolved into what they are today.
To be a christian, We take all the signs, the evidence of science, and prophesy, And the things God gave us to humble ourselves, and have complete faith in him to do what he promised he would do.
but even this is harder than religion, Because religion sees your own works, and your own deeds, it compairs yourself with other people. and hides the fact your a sinner, because you do not sin as they do. And then you have all your religious works and pride which comes from doing them (ceremony, tradition and other things) take this, and add it to the fact that evidence proves a creator. it takes LESS faith to be a religious person, than a christian.
So I woudl put christianity in between the athiest and the legalist.
Hyper-Grace IS OSAS/Eternal Security.
I'm a little surprised you don't know that, being the Hyper-Grace experts that you claim to be.
-JGIG
I'm a little surprised you don't know that, being the Hyper-Grace experts that you claim to be
.-JGIG
Ooooh, now it's the SATANIC hypergrace not just the new.gnostic.hyper.grace!
That'll for sure swing those on the fence to your point of view!
"The Hyper-Gracers are making reasoned and calm points to support their position - Quick! Let's add 'SATANIC' to the 'Hyper-Grace' label to scare people away!"
Well, fear can be an effective motivator for some . . . knock yourself out.
4 Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness is intended to lead you to repentance? (from Rom. 2)
-JGIG
![rolling-on-the-floor-laughing-smiley-emoticon[1].gif](/data/attachments/31/31497-c5111728b4d808f1ccfa49715dc9ae77.jpg)