Is sanctification an event, a process, or both?
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Santifacation is a life long process.we have a flesh which dwelleth no good thing that is in my flesh not in my heart.it is written that sin dwells in my flesh.first we put off the works of the flesh gal.we need to pray for the Spirit of wisdom and revelation of Jesus eph.So the spirit of God can reveal the footsteps of Jesus.this way you will see how Jesus put off sin.it said's in heb.that Jesus learned obedience through the things he suffered.in the days of his flesh he prayed to him ( father ) with loud tears and was heard for his Godly fear in the days of his flesh he had a flesh here on this earth from the time of his birth until they killed him.let mind of Christ be in you that he that has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin as Christ Jesus.1peter 4 :1,2
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Sanctification is God separating us from the world and cleansing us. We are in the world but no longer of the world. What made God's people separate from the other nations in the Old Testament was physical circumcision. In the New Testament it is spiritual circumcision of the heart (baptism). Our sanctification, or separation, from the world is seen when we assemble together on the first day of the week. It is both an event and an ongoing process. Because we die to ourselves, bury our old sinful self in the watery grave of baptism, and we continue to die to ourselves daily and live for Christ. "The renewing of our minds." Separates us from worldly thinking and worldly living.
Your analogy about the gold reminded me of this quote from Irenaeus. It sounds to me that you think faith is how you view yourself (your identity, an idea you hold in your mind), and that cleansing yourself from defilement is simply changing your mind about what you believe about yourself. It sounds very gnostic.
The gnostic heretics believed that they were saved by knowing that they were spiritual, and salvation was a process of focusing on this identity. This process of continually renewing their minds with the knowledge of who they thought they were was what they called repentance. They did not believe repentance from sin and cleansing of defilement through faith was necessary, but simply changing their minds about who they were.
This is made really clear in your comment that you think you are changed into the image of Christ by beholding - not Christ - but who you think you are in Christ (your identity). The bible says that we are changed into Christ's image by beholding his glory, not our identity.
Irenaeus, Against Heresies
2. ... [the gnostic heretics] hold that they shall be entirely and undoubtedly saved, not by means of conduct, but because they are spiritual by nature. For, just as it is impossible that material substance should partake of salvation (since, indeed, they maintain that it is incapable of receiving it), so again it is impossible that spiritual substance (by which they mean themselves) should ever come under the power of corruption, whatever the sort of actions in which they indulged. For even as gold, when submersed in filth, loses not on that account its beauty, but retains its own native qualities, the filth having no power to injure the gold, so they affirm that they cannot in any measure suffer hurt, or lose their spiritual substance, whatever the material actions [i.e., conduct] in which they may be involved.
The gnostic heretics believed that they were saved by knowing that they were spiritual, and salvation was a process of focusing on this identity. This process of continually renewing their minds with the knowledge of who they thought they were was what they called repentance. They did not believe repentance from sin and cleansing of defilement through faith was necessary, but simply changing their minds about who they were.
This is made really clear in your comment that you think you are changed into the image of Christ by beholding - not Christ - but who you think you are in Christ (your identity). The bible says that we are changed into Christ's image by beholding his glory, not our identity.
But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, [even] as by the Spirit of the Lord. 2 Corinthians 3:18
Irenaeus, Against Heresies
2. ... [the gnostic heretics] hold that they shall be entirely and undoubtedly saved, not by means of conduct, but because they are spiritual by nature. For, just as it is impossible that material substance should partake of salvation (since, indeed, they maintain that it is incapable of receiving it), so again it is impossible that spiritual substance (by which they mean themselves) should ever come under the power of corruption, whatever the sort of actions in which they indulged. For even as gold, when submersed in filth, loses not on that account its beauty, but retains its own native qualities, the filth having no power to injure the gold, so they affirm that they cannot in any measure suffer hurt, or lose their spiritual substance, whatever the material actions [i.e., conduct] in which they may be involved.
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We are changed by the life of Christ that is in our inner man of the heart that is in Christ and one with Him. We will sin less and less as we SEE more and more what Jesus has already done for us.
I have quoted probably over 100x times 2 Cor. 3:17-18 in various threads that as we behold Christ as in a mirror we see our true selves reflected because we are in Christ.
We are in Christ and we are saved by Christ's life alone. I'm sorry if some can't understand that.
When we believe ( through the washing of the word of righteousness or hearing the word of Christ ) – we view who we really are in Christ. In this “beholding” of ourselves in Christ as in a mirror – we “become” or manifest outwardly who we really are.
We are children of God now because we are in Christ. Paul talked about believers being in Christ in some form over 88 times in his epistles.
It's important for us to know our identity which is being one with Christ and that we are in fact a new creation in Him - created in righteousness and holiness. Eph 4:24. It is all to do with Christ and His finished work.
It's time for us to grow up and be who we are in Christ.
Colossians 2:6-7 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Therefore as you have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him,[SUP]7 [/SUP] having been firmly rooted and now being built up in Him and established in your faith, just as you were instructed, and overflowing with gratitude.
I have quoted probably over 100x times 2 Cor. 3:17-18 in various threads that as we behold Christ as in a mirror we see our true selves reflected because we are in Christ.
We are in Christ and we are saved by Christ's life alone. I'm sorry if some can't understand that.
When we believe ( through the washing of the word of righteousness or hearing the word of Christ ) – we view who we really are in Christ. In this “beholding” of ourselves in Christ as in a mirror – we “become” or manifest outwardly who we really are.
We are children of God now because we are in Christ. Paul talked about believers being in Christ in some form over 88 times in his epistles.
It's important for us to know our identity which is being one with Christ and that we are in fact a new creation in Him - created in righteousness and holiness. Eph 4:24. It is all to do with Christ and His finished work.
It's time for us to grow up and be who we are in Christ.
Colossians 2:6-7 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Therefore as you have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him,[SUP]7 [/SUP] having been firmly rooted and now being built up in Him and established in your faith, just as you were instructed, and overflowing with gratitude.
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You've gone completely astray. We are changed into GOD's image as we behold his glory. Our identity has nothing to do with it. That is a completely gnostic idea, that we are what we believe we are; that we become the image of ourselves that we behold in our mind.
In 2 Corinthians 3:18, Paul said that we are changed into GOD's image as his glory reflects off of our unveiled faces. He was directly referring to Moses who had to wear a veil because the glory of the lord reflected off of his face (so to speak) so much so that it shone.
Now we all, with uncovered face mirroring the Lord's glory, are being transformed into the same image, from glory into glory, even as from the Lord's spirit. 2 Corinthians 3:18
And it came to pass, when Moses came down from mount Sinai with the two tables of testimony in Moses' hand, when he came down from the mount, that Moses knew not that the skin of his face shone while he talked with him. And when Aaron and all the children of Israel saw Moses, behold, the skin of his face shone; and they were afraid to come nigh him. Exodus 34:29-30
And the children of Israel saw the face of Moses, that the skin of Moses' face shone: and Moses put the vail upon his face again, until he went in to speak with him. Exodus 34:35
And it came to pass, when Moses came down from mount Sinai with the two tables of testimony in Moses' hand, when he came down from the mount, that Moses knew not that the skin of his face shone while he talked with him. And when Aaron and all the children of Israel saw Moses, behold, the skin of his face shone; and they were afraid to come nigh him. Exodus 34:29-30
And the children of Israel saw the face of Moses, that the skin of Moses' face shone: and Moses put the vail upon his face again, until he went in to speak with him. Exodus 34:35
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If you think it is gnostic because someone believes in Christ's work in the believer , then I can't help you with that.
It starts and ends with Christ's life that is in us now that we are a new creation in Him. To behold Christ is to behold His glory.
( interesting note about Moses he wanted to see God's glory and the Lord showed him His goodness ..glory = goodness of the Lord which can be seen in what Christ has already done for us in His finished work....exciting eh?)
Don't you just love the Lord for His awesome salvation?
Perhaps you missed this part below...?..or you just don't understand it?
"I have quoted probably over 100x times 2 Cor. 3:17-18 in various threads that as we behold Christ as in a mirror we see our true selves reflected because we are in Christ. "
We are children of God now because we are in Christ. Paul talked about believers being in Christ in some form over 88 times in his epistles.
It's important for us to know our identity which is being one with Christ and that we are in fact a new creation in Him - created in righteousness and holiness. Eph 4:24. It is all to do with Christ and His finished work.
It starts and ends with Christ's life that is in us now that we are a new creation in Him. To behold Christ is to behold His glory.
( interesting note about Moses he wanted to see God's glory and the Lord showed him His goodness ..glory = goodness of the Lord which can be seen in what Christ has already done for us in His finished work....exciting eh?)
Don't you just love the Lord for His awesome salvation?
Perhaps you missed this part below...?..or you just don't understand it?
"I have quoted probably over 100x times 2 Cor. 3:17-18 in various threads that as we behold Christ as in a mirror we see our true selves reflected because we are in Christ. "
We are children of God now because we are in Christ. Paul talked about believers being in Christ in some form over 88 times in his epistles.
It's important for us to know our identity which is being one with Christ and that we are in fact a new creation in Him - created in righteousness and holiness. Eph 4:24. It is all to do with Christ and His finished work.
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This is part of the remaining need for practical, progressive holiness in our behavior that is ongoing and requires effort. We will reach ultimate or final sanctification when we receive our glorified bodies. Ongoing sanctification has no bearing on justification. That is, even if we don't live sinless, without fault or defect, flawless perfect lives (which we won't) we are still justified by faith in Christ. This does not mean that the sanctified believer practices sin and not righteousness either (1 John 3:9-10).
It is obvious from scripture that we are to walk out the holiness that is already in us in Christ..in our inner man..the new creation that is created in righteousness and holiness.
There is a difference between us as a person being "set apart" ( sanctified in our spirit ) and "setting apart " ( sanctifying ) our behavior outwardly to reflect our true self in the Lord now. It's definitely a process!.
1 Peter 1:15-16 (NASB)
[SUP]15[/SUP] but like the Holy One who called you, be holy yourselves also in all your behavior;
[SUP]16 [/SUP] because it is written, "YOU SHALL BE HOLY, FOR I AM HOLY."
The question remains..is it us doing it by our own self-effort and are we doing it to "maintain" salvation so that we can go to be with the Lord?..or is it from the life of Christ with His fruit bearing in and through our lives.
There is a difference - accept no substitutes....
There is a difference between us as a person being "set apart" ( sanctified in our spirit ) and "setting apart " ( sanctifying ) our behavior outwardly to reflect our true self in the Lord now. It's definitely a process!.
1 Peter 1:15-16 (NASB)
[SUP]15[/SUP] but like the Holy One who called you, be holy yourselves also in all your behavior;
[SUP]16 [/SUP] because it is written, "YOU SHALL BE HOLY, FOR I AM HOLY."
The question remains..is it us doing it by our own self-effort and are we doing it to "maintain" salvation so that we can go to be with the Lord?..or is it from the life of Christ with His fruit bearing in and through our lives.
There is a difference - accept no substitutes....
Jesus took the sin of the world away with His death on the cross. Everyone in the world has had sin forgiven but NOT everyone accepts this forgiveness that the blood of Jesus redeemed for us.
The parable in Matthew 18 is talking about a non-believer in Christ that has had his sin forgiven by God but he does not forgive others. Jesus spoke this parable to expose sin and to elevate the law so that people would realize their need for a Savior.
To say that God will NOT forgive unless we forgive is to deny the blood of Jesus. Every person that comes to Christ does not need to forgive others before they come to Christ.
We always need to interpret scripture through the lens of the finished work of Christ.
Matt 18:35 says that God will not forgive unless you forgive from your heart.
This was Jesus giving them the law. Moses 2.0 as it shows their need for a Savior in order for Jesus to create in them a new heart that loves and forgives just like their Father does in Jesus.
Love always forgives - it's in our nature now because we are in Christ - created in righteousness and holiness.
We have a new heart now - so we can't really have unforgiveness in our hearts anymore which is why Jesus said .."If you do not forgive from your heart" ....this is to expose their need for a new heart which always forgives.
Acts 15:8-9 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] "And God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us;
[SUP]9 [/SUP] and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.
We love now from our new hearts in Christ and our hearts cannot sin.
So Jesus's verse above in Matthew 18 would not apply to the person in Christ as it is impossible for them to have sin in their heart and to not forgive. We have the very nature of God inside us now - righteousness and holiness.
Romans 5:5 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] and hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.
1 John 5:18 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] We know that no one who is born of God sins; but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him.
1 John 3:9 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
The parable in Matthew 18 is talking about a non-believer in Christ that has had his sin forgiven by God but he does not forgive others. Jesus spoke this parable to expose sin and to elevate the law so that people would realize their need for a Savior.
To say that God will NOT forgive unless we forgive is to deny the blood of Jesus. Every person that comes to Christ does not need to forgive others before they come to Christ.
We always need to interpret scripture through the lens of the finished work of Christ.
Matt 18:35 says that God will not forgive unless you forgive from your heart.
This was Jesus giving them the law. Moses 2.0 as it shows their need for a Savior in order for Jesus to create in them a new heart that loves and forgives just like their Father does in Jesus.
Love always forgives - it's in our nature now because we are in Christ - created in righteousness and holiness.
We have a new heart now - so we can't really have unforgiveness in our hearts anymore which is why Jesus said .."If you do not forgive from your heart" ....this is to expose their need for a new heart which always forgives.
Acts 15:8-9 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] "And God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us;
[SUP]9 [/SUP] and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.
We love now from our new hearts in Christ and our hearts cannot sin.
So Jesus's verse above in Matthew 18 would not apply to the person in Christ as it is impossible for them to have sin in their heart and to not forgive. We have the very nature of God inside us now - righteousness and holiness.
Romans 5:5 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] and hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.
1 John 5:18 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] We know that no one who is born of God sins; but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him.
1 John 3:9 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
Matthew 18 is talking about a believer who had his sins forgiven, and then would not forgive others.
Surely you're not trying to say that Jesus was speaking about unbelievers. They are already condemned whether they forgive or don't forgive. Jesus paid the price for their sin, but he hasn't yet forgiven them. That depends upon their repentance and coming to him in faith.
All people are forgiven because Christ's work is finished and all sin has been dealt with - except the sin of unbelief in Christ...some just have not received it yet.
I could say "I have given everyone in CC a $100 in an account "..you would need to receive that $100 in order for it to be effective in your life even though it has been given to you.
Here is a whole thread on this subject..
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/135962-forgiven-when.html
I could say "I have given everyone in CC a $100 in an account "..you would need to receive that $100 in order for it to be effective in your life even though it has been given to you.
Here is a whole thread on this subject..
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/135962-forgiven-when.html
All sin was taken away at the cross but when we believed we received Christ - that forgiveness was received in the hearts and minds of people. I believe Acts 10 shows this perfectly.
Acts 10:43-45 (NASB)
[SUP]43 [/SUP] "Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins."
[SUP]44 [/SUP] While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message.
[SUP]45 [/SUP] All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also.
There is no real sin issue anymore - it's now a belief or unbelief situation.
When us believers have our minds renewed to what Christ has already done - sin will not have dominion over us as we are not under law but grace. Grace teaches how to live godly in this present world.
That's why some of us preach and teach the grace of Christ all the time and lift what He has done.
Acts 10:43-45 (NASB)
[SUP]43 [/SUP] "Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins."
[SUP]44 [/SUP] While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message.
[SUP]45 [/SUP] All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also.
There is no real sin issue anymore - it's now a belief or unbelief situation.
When us believers have our minds renewed to what Christ has already done - sin will not have dominion over us as we are not under law but grace. Grace teaches how to live godly in this present world.
That's why some of us preach and teach the grace of Christ all the time and lift what He has done.
The wicked servant acts in a way that is contrary to a genuine believer (hence the word, wicked). The mission of Christ and His servants is to "proclaim freedom for the prisoners" (Luke 4:18), but instead the wicked servant shows unforgiveness by throwing a fellow servant into jail over such a small matter.
I don't believe that this parable is intended to shake our assurance of salvation found in Christ and look to our performance in order to "maintain" our salvation by works. If God is so willing to graciously forgive us of such a large debt, then we should have the same attitude of forgiveness toward others. That is the real point of this parable. Not that this servant was saved and lost his salvation.
Though our debt was forgiven/paid in full at the cross (and Jesus is willing to show mercy and forgive us), we must receive it through faith.The fact that this person is called a servant does not mean necessarily that they are saved. The Jews (Israel) is referred to as the Lord’s servants (Isaiah 43:10), but they were not all saved.
The picture illustrates God's total forgiveness when dealing with our sins at the cross. Our debt has been paid in full by Jesus. The contrast in verse 28, where the same servant is unwilling to forgive his fellow servant a debt of a hundred denarii is deliberately presented as a hideous hypothetical situation.
As unbelievable as this action would be, that is how unbelievable it would be for a genuine Christian, who has been forgiven such a huge debt, to be unforgiving of others with such a small debt. In the story, such an unforgiving servant is called a wicked servant because no genuine believer would do such.
I don't believe that this parable is intended to shake our assurance of salvation found in Christ and look to our performance in order to "maintain" our salvation by works. If God is so willing to graciously forgive us of such a large debt, then we should have the same attitude of forgiveness toward others. That is the real point of this parable. Not that this servant was saved and lost his salvation.
Though our debt was forgiven/paid in full at the cross (and Jesus is willing to show mercy and forgive us), we must receive it through faith.The fact that this person is called a servant does not mean necessarily that they are saved. The Jews (Israel) is referred to as the Lord’s servants (Isaiah 43:10), but they were not all saved.
The picture illustrates God's total forgiveness when dealing with our sins at the cross. Our debt has been paid in full by Jesus. The contrast in verse 28, where the same servant is unwilling to forgive his fellow servant a debt of a hundred denarii is deliberately presented as a hideous hypothetical situation.
As unbelievable as this action would be, that is how unbelievable it would be for a genuine Christian, who has been forgiven such a huge debt, to be unforgiving of others with such a small debt. In the story, such an unforgiving servant is called a wicked servant because no genuine believer would do such.
It's like the parable of the "tares". They look like wheat but are not and they are sown by the enemy.
There are some that have real faith in what Christ has done for them and then there are those that try to get salvation by doing good deeds and acting like the real wheat.
Matthew 13:24-25 (NASB)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] Jesus presented another parable to them, saying, "The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a man who sowed good seed in his field.
[SUP]25 [/SUP] "But while his men were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went away.
Matthew 13:28-30 (NASB)
[SUP]28 [/SUP] "And he said to them, 'An enemy has done this!' The slaves *said to him, 'Do you want us, then, to go and gather them up?'
[SUP]29 [/SUP] "But he *said, 'No; for while you are gathering up the tares, you may uproot the wheat with them.
[SUP]30 [/SUP]'Allow both to grow together until the harvest; and in the time of the harvest I will say to the reapers, "First gather up the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them up; but gather the wheat into my barn."'"
There are some that have real faith in what Christ has done for them and then there are those that try to get salvation by doing good deeds and acting like the real wheat.
Matthew 13:24-25 (NASB)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] Jesus presented another parable to them, saying, "The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a man who sowed good seed in his field.
[SUP]25 [/SUP] "But while his men were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went away.
Matthew 13:28-30 (NASB)
[SUP]28 [/SUP] "And he said to them, 'An enemy has done this!' The slaves *said to him, 'Do you want us, then, to go and gather them up?'
[SUP]29 [/SUP] "But he *said, 'No; for while you are gathering up the tares, you may uproot the wheat with them.
[SUP]30 [/SUP]'Allow both to grow together until the harvest; and in the time of the harvest I will say to the reapers, "First gather up the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them up; but gather the wheat into my barn."'"
Faith that trusts in "Christ alone" for salvation (Ephesians 2:8,9). Not the same thing as faith that "remains alone" - barren of works (James 2:14).
Faith that "remains alone" (barren of works) demonstrates that it's dead. James 2:14 - says/claims to have faith but has no works (to validate the claim). James is talking about an empty profession of faith/dead faith that remains "alone" - barren of works. Not faith that trusts in "Christ alone" for salvation (Ephesians 2:8,9). You can't seem to grasp the difference.
Faith that "remains alone" (barren of works) demonstrates that it's dead. James 2:14 - says/claims to have faith but has no works (to validate the claim). James is talking about an empty profession of faith/dead faith that remains "alone" - barren of works. Not faith that trusts in "Christ alone" for salvation (Ephesians 2:8,9). You can't seem to grasp the difference.