Forgiven When?

Scriptureplz · May 11, 2016

Were we forgiven at the cross or when we believed the gospel? I believe the bible teaches God forgave our sin debt and reconciled Himself to us at the cross. When we believe the gospel, we have reconciled ourselves to Him and are justified by faith. Since this is the case, unbelievers have no sin problem, but a Son problem! We are justified by faith, not by "turning from sin".

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1 John 2:2 .....And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

John 1:29 .....The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

John 3:18 .....He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

2 Corinthians 5:18-19
And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Romans 3:25 .....Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

Romans 5:1 .....Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

mpaper345 · May 11, 2016

We are not forgiven at the cross,although Jesus took away the sins of the world,but when we believe the Gospel message then the sins that Jesus took away at the cross,are forgiven,never to come up again.

What Jesus did at the cross opened up the opportunity to have sins forgiven to those that accept the Gospel message.Jesus took away the sins of the world at the cross,but they cannot be forgiven until the Gospel is believed.

But you could say we are forgiven at the cross,for when we believe the Gospel,it includes the cross,but it does not stop there,for it also includes the resurrection of Christ,which is part of the Gospel.

Grace777x70 · May 11, 2016

I agree with most - except if unbelievers don't believe Christ's work - the wrath of God remains on them. Even though sin is done away with, if they are not in Christ - they do not receive their sins as having been taken away. Lot's of scripture say that.

All sin was taken away at the cross but when we believed we received Christ - that forgiveness was received in the hearts and minds of people. I believe Acts 10 shows this perfectly.

Acts 10:43-45 (NASB)
[SUP]43 [/SUP] "Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins."
[SUP]44 [/SUP] While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message.

[SUP]45 [/SUP] All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also.

There is no real sin issue anymore - it's now a belief or unbelief situation.

MsSuzanna · May 11, 2016

Grace777x70 said:

Dont even say that! I mean,that we are forgiven at the cross. There is nothing in the bible that says that. Dont add lib.

Ha! I like that! Add lib......

seems to fit.............. with some.

Christ atoned for our sins on the cross. We are not forgiven until we are saved. Until then,we are in the world as sinners and Gods wrath is upon us

Okay, carry on

Scriptureplz · May 11, 2016

Grace777x70 said:

Thank you for your comment Grace777x70! What separates us from God is "unbelief' in the gospel. The forgiveness is given on Gods Part, but not received on our part until we believe the gospel. "Everyone who believes in Him ***receives forgiveness of sin". The forgiveness is there, we have to receive it by belief.

Scriptureplz · May 11, 2016

MsSuzanna said:

I agree, we do not receive forgiveness until we believe, but God has already reconciled Himself to the world. It is not sin that was paid for on the cross that condemns, it is unbelief. John 16:8-9

Grace777x70 · May 11, 2016

MsSuzanna said:

I could see where people could think they are forgiven of all sins without believing because Jesus took them away - But that's not the case here.

Could be in the wording of things?....all sin was taken away, done away with by Jesus on the cross. All sin is forgiven when people believe what Christ has done. You have to believe in order to receive the forgiveness of sins that is already there for you in Christ.

Yes..the wrath of God remains on them as I said to those who do not believe in Christ.

Scriptureplz · May 11, 2016

Grace777x70 said:

I could see where people could think they are forgiven of all sins without believing because Jesus took them away - But that's not the case here.

Could be in the wording of things?....all sin was taken away, done away with by Jesus on the cross. All sin is forgiven when people believe what Christ has done. You have to believe in order to receive the forgiveness of sins that is already there for you in Christ.

Yes..the wrath of God remains on them as I said to those who do not believe in Christ.

The wrath of God remains because of unbelief, not because of any other sin.

Grace777x70 · May 11, 2016

Scriptureplz said:

Yes...the sin issue has been dealt with by Jesus' sacrifice once for all time! This is the message of the gospel.

This statement is hard for some people to grasp because of some religious teachings.

God is not an evangelical and is not obsessed with sin. If people would believe the gospel of the grace of Christ - sin in the flesh would be less and less as the grace and life of Christ within us would prevail. The law of the spirit of Life in Christ Jesus has set us free from the law of sin and death. Sin shall not be master of you because you are not under law but grace.

Scriptureplz · May 11, 2016

Matthew 12:31-32
"Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come."

Scriptureplz · May 11, 2016

What I am saying is God has done His part, we are not saved until we believe. Please go back and read the post. This is not "universalism", but if people would understand their sin has already been removed, they would understand our salvation is not based on reformation, but faith alone.

Reconciled and forgiven are the same I believe. We are not saved just because God has forgiven all the sin of everyone, we are saved when we believe His Son died to provide that for us by taking our sins from us.

crossnote · May 11, 2016

There is what is called objective forgiveness where the Father has forgiven sin because of Christ's work on the cross.
Then there is subjective forgiveness where we personally receive God's forgiveness when we believe.

Eph_1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
Col_1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

And when Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, "Son, your sins are forgiven."
(Mar 2:5)

nowyouseem033 · May 12, 2016

Forgiveness was accomplished at the cross. In fact the work of redemption was completed at the cross. Jesus uttered the words "it is finished"

When we believe the gospel we realise that God has forgiven us at the cross of Christ. When did forgiveness take place? At the Cross.

When did I realise this and transformation began to take place? When we believed the gospel.

RobbyEarl · May 12, 2016

Forgiveness takes place the moment you acknowledge the Lord Jesus Christ as your savior. And then every time you mess up and ask for forgiveness you receive it. No need for a college degree just have faith .

Scriptureplz · May 12, 2016

RobbyEarl said:

Hi Robby, thank you for your comment! If you owe someone $20, and your buddy pays it without you knowing, you are forgiven that debt by the person holding the debt. You may not know it's paid, but it's paid, and it can never be brought up in court against you as having not been paid. You ARE FORGIVEN that debt!

When you understand the debt has been paid, you can either try to pay it anyway (which is kind of foolish isn't it?), or you can accept that it has been paid by someone else and reap the benefit of it for as long as the person who paid the debt lives! He is the only witness that can testify it was paid.

Forgiveness has taken place through the person of Jesus Christ. There is nothing left to do after receiving that truth. Receiving the gospel and accepting the payment Christ has already made is receiving His already made provision of forgiveness! In Gods book your account is clean and have been forgiven the only thing left between you and Him which was unbelief. He will never hold our sins against us because they were already removed 2,000 years ago by His Son before we were even born. Once we have trusted in His Sons sacrifice for sin and resurrection from the dead, we are "in Christ", and there is NOTHING that can ever come between us and God again!

HeRoseFromTheDead · May 12, 2016

Scriptureplz said:

Forgiveness has taken place through the person of Jesus Christ. There is nothing left to do after receiving that truth. Receiving the gospel and accepting the payment Christ has already made is receiving His already made provision of forgiveness! In Gods book your account is clean and have been forgiven the only thing left between you and Him which was unbelief. He will never hold our sins against us because they were already removed 2,000 years ago by His Son before we were even born. Once we have trusted in His Sons sacrifice for sin and resurrection from the dead, we are "in Christ", and there is NOTHING that can ever come between us and God again!

This is just incorrect. Revelation 2 comes to mind. Current unrepented sin is a big problem.

Scriptureplz · May 12, 2016

HeRoseFromTheDead said:

Nothing personal, but the problem is your understanding of repentance, which is simply a "change of mind" as is defined in the Greek. When we understand that we cannot become righteous, but only have His righteousness given to us through faith, we "change our minds" and believe the gospel and are saved. This is repentance toward salvation. It would really benefit you to recognize how the term is used in the bible instead of the dictionary. The devil would love for you to think you could reform yourself enough to be accepted by God, but the only way He will ever accept anyone is if they have believed in the gospel of Christ. If they depend on their own pitiful efforts, they are not saved at all. Read Romans 3:20-27, 10:1-4

Grace777x70 · May 12, 2016

Yes..all unrepented sin for a believer is a big problem here on this earth. A person could be filled with malice and slandering others all their life and it would have consequences. A person could commit adultery and that would have consequences...etc.

Our loving Father disciplines us because we are sons so that we can grow up in Christ and stop doing things that hurt ourselves and others around us. But we remain forgiven because we are in Christ.

Scriptureplz · May 12, 2016

Please take the time to understand biblical repentance.

https://escapetoreality.org/2011/11/28/3-reasons-why-i-dont-preach-on-repentance/

HeRoseFromTheDead · May 12, 2016

Scriptureplz said:

By saying unrepented sin, I meant living in sin, living in darkness. When we repent we see the light and have a change of mind. When we turn back to the light, then GOD no longer holds our sin against us. Guess what GOD is holding against these people in these verses (hint: it's not their righteousness).

But I hold against you that you have left your first love. Revelation 2:4

But I hold a few [things] against you: that you have there those who hold fast to the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to put a stumbling block before the sons of Israel, to eat food sacrificed to idols and to commit sexual immorality. Revelation 2:14

But I hold against you that you tolerate the woman Jezebel, the one who calls herself a prophetess, and teaches and deceives my slaves to commit sexual immorality and to eat food sacrificed to idols. Revelation 2:20

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