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So how much must we "do" in order to remain saved? What's the passing grade? Does God grade on a curve? Everything with you is about "do" but it's never about "done" (what Christ has already done).
We become saved/justified through faith (belief, trust, reliance) in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4; Romans 1:16). We also remain saved through faith.
So how much obedience does it take to remain saved? Obedience/good works is the fruit of saving faith in Christ. From beginning "have been saved through faith" (Ephesians 2:8) to end "receiving the end of your faith--the salvation of your souls" (1 Peter 1:9) salvation is through faith and is not by works. The word "abide" is not defined as multiple acts of obedience/works but to stay, remain.
We become saved/justified through faith (belief, trust, reliance) in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4; Romans 1:16). We also remain saved through faith.
So how much obedience does it take to remain saved? Obedience/good works is the fruit of saving faith in Christ. From beginning "have been saved through faith" (Ephesians 2:8) to end "receiving the end of your faith--the salvation of your souls" (1 Peter 1:9) salvation is through faith and is not by works. The word "abide" is not defined as multiple acts of obedience/works but to stay, remain.
Doing "works" to "remain" saved is not the gospel of the grace of Christ. This is called works-righteousness.
Everything in the kingdom comes by grace through faith in the finished work of Christ alone. Eph 2:8-9
Galatians 3:3 (NASB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?
Colossians 2:6 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Therefore as you have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him,
How did we first receive Christ? it's the same way for "walking" in Him.
Everything in the kingdom comes by grace through faith in the finished work of Christ alone. Eph 2:8-9
Galatians 3:3 (NASB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?
Colossians 2:6 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Therefore as you have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him,
How did we first receive Christ? it's the same way for "walking" in Him.
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Faith and belief can be used the same way, But may not be the same, If that makes sense (flaw of the english langage)
If I am in a dangerous situation, And someone comes and says he can save me, just trust him, I can believe he may be able to save me, Yet not trust him at all.
If I do not trust him (faith) I most likely will not listen to him, and continue to try to save myself, In which case I will probably die.
The fact is, To lay your life in someone elses hands where you have no control, is one of the hardest things a man can do. Which is why so few will be saved, Because we have to lay our eternal life completely in someones hands, and we can not even see that someone.
If I am in a dangerous situation, And someone comes and says he can save me, just trust him, I can believe he may be able to save me, Yet not trust him at all.
If I do not trust him (faith) I most likely will not listen to him, and continue to try to save myself, In which case I will probably die.
The fact is, To lay your life in someone elses hands where you have no control, is one of the hardest things a man can do. Which is why so few will be saved, Because we have to lay our eternal life completely in someones hands, and we can not even see that someone.
E
Thats a bad example. (about continuing to commit and walk) It states the bridge is not trustworthy, and once we start walking it starts to fail.
That is not what God promises, He promises rest, Once we start walking, We see how sturdy the bridge really is (looks can be deceiving) and the more we walk, the more confident we get.
I mean what, We get halfway, or three quarters, or 7/8's across, then turn around come back because we are no longer commited? That makes no sense.
That is not what God promises, He promises rest, Once we start walking, We see how sturdy the bridge really is (looks can be deceiving) and the more we walk, the more confident we get.
I mean what, We get halfway, or three quarters, or 7/8's across, then turn around come back because we are no longer commited? That makes no sense.
We abide in Christ the moment we are born into the family of God through Christ.
After you were born, and I'm assuming you weren't abandoned or orphaned as a child, what effort did you exert to remain a member of your family?
So it is when we abide in Christ. If you are in Christ, you are abiding in Christ.
REST. Now, rest, REST is a different matter. Hebrews tells us to strive to enter into His REST. A paradox, to be sure, but goes to show us that it's something that we have to purpose to do - to choose to rest in the Work of Christ and not strive in our own works - and out of that comes Fruit.
Stressed plants don't tend to bear great fruit. They may squeeze out a good piece here or there, but there is no consistency or harvests.
In Christ, we're promised life, and life in abundance. I don't believe that necessarily means health and wealth (though those are not bad things), but it does mean that there will be Fruit in our lives - love, joy, peace, patience, self-control, etc., and those things in the midst of our circumstances because in every one of life's circumstances, Christ promises to never leave or forsake us.
We can be born-again and abiding in Christ, yet not resting in the Truth of who we are in Him based on Who He is and what He's done - AND that He walks with us ALWAYS.
So abide AND rest . . . that's where Fruit happens!
After you were born, and I'm assuming you weren't abandoned or orphaned as a child, what effort did you exert to remain a member of your family?
So it is when we abide in Christ. If you are in Christ, you are abiding in Christ.
REST. Now, rest, REST is a different matter. Hebrews tells us to strive to enter into His REST. A paradox, to be sure, but goes to show us that it's something that we have to purpose to do - to choose to rest in the Work of Christ and not strive in our own works - and out of that comes Fruit.
Stressed plants don't tend to bear great fruit. They may squeeze out a good piece here or there, but there is no consistency or harvests.
In Christ, we're promised life, and life in abundance. I don't believe that necessarily means health and wealth (though those are not bad things), but it does mean that there will be Fruit in our lives - love, joy, peace, patience, self-control, etc., and those things in the midst of our circumstances because in every one of life's circumstances, Christ promises to never leave or forsake us.
We can be born-again and abiding in Christ, yet not resting in the Truth of who we are in Him based on Who He is and what He's done - AND that He walks with us ALWAYS.
So abide AND rest . . . that's where Fruit happens!
Amen...
The other aspect is that "we are in the bridge" because the bridge is Christ Himself. We are one with Him.
1 Corinthians 6:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.
Romans 7:4 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God.
I think it’s all one in the same. Faith is connected to the person. To try and seperate it from what a person believes would be like trying to separate faith from works .Something would end up deader than a door nail, with no spirit life..
Jam 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
Like the faith of Christ, called the spirit of faith according as it is written. . It cannot be separate from the person as the personal belief. For who know the thoughts of man as to the deep things of man hidden for other men save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God know man knows, but the Spirit of God
Amen
Jam 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
Like the faith of Christ, called the spirit of faith according as it is written. . It cannot be separate from the person as the personal belief. For who know the thoughts of man as to the deep things of man hidden for other men save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God know man knows, but the Spirit of God
Amen
And that is the main division of the 2 schools of thought. No one here is saying we are saved or justified by works, both sides agree on that. But they believe there is no need to "maintain" your faith by abiding in the words and commandments of Jesus because they believe Christ did everything for them, even in the future, (or as they say the finished work of Christ). So ongoing sin does not matter to them, because that is considered "maintaining" good "works", which they try to falsely label as DIY "self righteousness" or "works Salvationism". But this walking in righteousness and obedience(The Way) is just abiding in (maintaining) the walk of faith through Jesus Christ, by not departing from (opposite of maintaining) the faith, back to a life of sin.
Here is proof of what they believe here in Grace 777 post So it is clear they believe everything is already done for them, even in the future, so works good or evil do not matter, so they themselves do not have to do any good "works" to "remain" in Christ, or remained saved. Which is contrary to what Jesus said about remaining in Him, and abiding in Him, and abiding in His words and commandments.
Here is proof of what they believe here in Grace 777 post So it is clear they believe everything is already done for them, even in the future, so works good or evil do not matter, so they themselves do not have to do any good "works" to "remain" in Christ, or remained saved. Which is contrary to what Jesus said about remaining in Him, and abiding in Him, and abiding in His words and commandments.
E
Thats alot of work their you are proclaiming needs to be done.
Yet you want to claim you are not teaching you are not justified by works. When in fact, what you just procalimed is you ARE justified by works..
It matter alot to us actually, This is just a strawman argument people like to use to justifiy their working to maintain salvation (ie earn it)
. Are you perfect? if not, You are no better than we are, and according to God, condemned by your sin.
That is where we differ. We admit we can not be sinless, And you call it wanting to live in sin. They are not even close to being related terms..
Maybe that is because IT IS JUSTIFYING YOURSELF BY WORKS??
If works matter, then you are justifying yourself by works. When will people every realise this? trying to justify maintaining good works in order to keep salvation is the same as saying, we are justified by works.