Christianity Started
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Yes, so true.
We have peace WITH God, because Jesus paid our penalty in full, there is therefore now no condemnation for believers in Jesus. (see Romans 8)
Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. (Romans 5:1). HE IS our peace.
The peace OF God comes in varying degrees as we grow and learn to trust in the Lord, hopefully developing a closer relationship with Him, but of course with circumstances like the world, the flesh, and the devil, (and even fellow believers sometimes) to contend with, it's not quite so easy, but the Lord and His Word are there to help us ..... if we come to Him in prayer, and keep our eyes on Him, the bible says, 'Thou shalt keep him in perfect peace, who's mind is stayed on thee, because he trusts in thee' (Isaiah 26:3), (and continuing from Philippians 4:6-7)-'And the peace OF God, which passes all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.'
We have peace WITH God, because Jesus paid our penalty in full, there is therefore now no condemnation for believers in Jesus. (see Romans 8)
Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. (Romans 5:1). HE IS our peace.
The peace OF God comes in varying degrees as we grow and learn to trust in the Lord, hopefully developing a closer relationship with Him, but of course with circumstances like the world, the flesh, and the devil, (and even fellow believers sometimes) to contend with, it's not quite so easy, but the Lord and His Word are there to help us ..... if we come to Him in prayer, and keep our eyes on Him, the bible says, 'Thou shalt keep him in perfect peace, who's mind is stayed on thee, because he trusts in thee' (Isaiah 26:3), (and continuing from Philippians 4:6-7)-'And the peace OF God, which passes all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.'
Hello RuthyG,
Sorry if my zeal turned you off...I get pretty excited sometimes!
But PEACE (Gr. "eirene") is something Billyd wants to chat about.
AND, "eirene" (Ps. 119:165, LXX) extends to those who LOVE Torah (not to those who oppose it).
Therefore, the angels sang about "eirene" (Heb. "shalom") to men, confirming that men can enjoy peaceful (Torah-obedient) relationship with God. This is GOOD news!
It's BAD to be excluded from Israel and the covenants. We are NOT excluded (Eph. 2:12).
So, it's GOOD to be included in Israel and the covenants.
Should we oppose the very Torah of the covenants (Abrahamic, Mosaic, Davidic, New) in which we participate?
Of course not...
This is not "legalism"....it's simply Bible.
best...
BibleGuy
Hi Dan!
And...as we've previously chatted (in another thread)....
The "love your neighbor" command (Lev. 19:18) is NOT a substitute for our duty to grow in faithful obedience to the other Torah instructions as well.
That's why Jesus teaches obedience to ALL Torah details (Mt. 5:19) as a requirement for being GREAT in the forthcoming kingdom.
That's why Jesus teaches obedience to the weightier AND lighter elements of Torah (Mt. 23:23).
That's why Jesus applies Dt. 6:25 to us (i.e., "ALL" the commands of Torah) in Mt. 22:37 (which applies Dt. 6 to us).
That's why Jesus sends forth Torah-teachers (Gr. "grammateus", Mt. 23:34) to properly represent His fully Torah-obedient Torah-teaching ministry. (The "grammateus" teach ALL Torah...not merely Lev. 19:18 as a substitute.)
That's why Jesus says ADDITIONAL commands (not merely Lev. 19:18) are sufficient for eternal life (Mt. 19:17-19; Lk. 10:25-28).
That's why Jesus is ANGRY at religious people who invent man-made traditions which conflict with Torah-obedience (Mk. 7:8-9). (Thus, pork on Easter is a BAD idea!)
That's why Jesus casts away religious people who exemplify lawlessness (Torah-lessness, Gr. "anomia", Mt. 7:21-23).
That's why Jesus' disciples obeyed Torah details, just as Jesus did (Lk. 6:40), and we should too (1 Jn. 2:6).
That's why Jesus applies ALL of His PRE-CROSS Torah-obedient teachings to disciples of all nations (Mt. 28:20).
That's WHY Paul took a vow to prove that he "walked orderly in obedience to the law" (including the Law of Moses and infant circumcision law, Ac. 21). Torah details STILL apply. We should imitate Paul (1 Cor. 11:1; Php. 4:9).
That's WHY Paul continues to apply Torah details to Himself (Ac. 23:5). We should imitate Paul (1 Cor. 11:1; Php. 4:9)
I could go on and on...
CONCLUSION: "Love your neighbor" FULFILLS (not REPLACES) the law.
Sure, if you love your neighbor, then you will seek to obey all observable Torah as an expression of that love (thus, "love your neighbor" fulfills the law). But that's no excuse to ignore Torah details! Rather, it's WHY we should OBEY Torah details.
That's why Torah details STILL apply to us....not merely the greatest two commands found in Dt. 6:5 and Lev. 19:18.
Agreed?
blessings...
BibleGuy
And...as we've previously chatted (in another thread)....
The "love your neighbor" command (Lev. 19:18) is NOT a substitute for our duty to grow in faithful obedience to the other Torah instructions as well.
That's why Jesus teaches obedience to ALL Torah details (Mt. 5:19) as a requirement for being GREAT in the forthcoming kingdom.
That's why Jesus teaches obedience to the weightier AND lighter elements of Torah (Mt. 23:23).
That's why Jesus applies Dt. 6:25 to us (i.e., "ALL" the commands of Torah) in Mt. 22:37 (which applies Dt. 6 to us).
That's why Jesus sends forth Torah-teachers (Gr. "grammateus", Mt. 23:34) to properly represent His fully Torah-obedient Torah-teaching ministry. (The "grammateus" teach ALL Torah...not merely Lev. 19:18 as a substitute.)
That's why Jesus says ADDITIONAL commands (not merely Lev. 19:18) are sufficient for eternal life (Mt. 19:17-19; Lk. 10:25-28).
That's why Jesus is ANGRY at religious people who invent man-made traditions which conflict with Torah-obedience (Mk. 7:8-9). (Thus, pork on Easter is a BAD idea!)
That's why Jesus casts away religious people who exemplify lawlessness (Torah-lessness, Gr. "anomia", Mt. 7:21-23).
That's why Jesus' disciples obeyed Torah details, just as Jesus did (Lk. 6:40), and we should too (1 Jn. 2:6).
That's why Jesus applies ALL of His PRE-CROSS Torah-obedient teachings to disciples of all nations (Mt. 28:20).
That's WHY Paul took a vow to prove that he "walked orderly in obedience to the law" (including the Law of Moses and infant circumcision law, Ac. 21). Torah details STILL apply. We should imitate Paul (1 Cor. 11:1; Php. 4:9).
That's WHY Paul continues to apply Torah details to Himself (Ac. 23:5). We should imitate Paul (1 Cor. 11:1; Php. 4:9)
I could go on and on...
CONCLUSION: "Love your neighbor" FULFILLS (not REPLACES) the law.
Sure, if you love your neighbor, then you will seek to obey all observable Torah as an expression of that love (thus, "love your neighbor" fulfills the law). But that's no excuse to ignore Torah details! Rather, it's WHY we should OBEY Torah details.
That's why Torah details STILL apply to us....not merely the greatest two commands found in Dt. 6:5 and Lev. 19:18.
Agreed?
blessings...
BibleGuy
hi BibleGuy!
no, I can't agree with that.
here's my thinking, in order to avoid unprofitable controversies
I'll post a bible passage when I think it will be edifying to readers of the thread.
then, anybody else (including, of course, yourself) is welcome to respond in any way they see fit
Grace and Peace to you, BibleGuy, and everyone who reads this.
EPHESIANS 4:29 ...but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear. (esv)
no, I can't agree with that.
here's my thinking, in order to avoid unprofitable controversies
I'll post a bible passage when I think it will be edifying to readers of the thread.
then, anybody else (including, of course, yourself) is welcome to respond in any way they see fit
Grace and Peace to you, BibleGuy, and everyone who reads this.
EPHESIANS 4:29 ...but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear. (esv)
Interesting note: The disciples were gathered at "Pentecost" because was the Biblical Feast of "Shavuot", or the Feast of Weeks. They were not gathered together for a random reason or to start a new holiday. Shavuot celebrates God's giving of the Law. At Shavuot, God gave them a different manifestation of the Holy Spirit.
If we think "Christianity" started at "Pentecost", then "Christianity" started in the Old Testament.
As an aside....Does God care if we label ourselves as "Christians", or that we are simply His people?
If we think "Christianity" started at "Pentecost", then "Christianity" started in the Old Testament.
As an aside....Does God care if we label ourselves as "Christians", or that we are simply His people?
Ok Dan....
I respect your decision to not jump into the details...
I know life gets very busy...and sometimes we just don't have time....
However, Jesus OPPOSES religious people who disobey Torah (Mk. 7; Mt. 23; Mt. 7).
And I truly have no clue why you would disagree with the Scriptural position I've set forth.
And I'm simply trying to help us grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.
So let's be careful not to imply that this issue is an "unprofitable controversy".
CONCLUSION: We should imitate Jesus (Lk. 6:40; 1 Jn. 2:6) and likewise oppose anti-Torah theology and practice, for it edifies the body when we defend Scriptural truth against unscriptural criticism, earnestly contending for the faith (Jude 3), publicly refuting wrong theology (Ac. 18:27-28), testing and exposing falsehood (Rev. 2:2), even shaming (2 Th. 3:14) and admonishing (2 Th. 3:15) those who oppose the Torah-obedient traditions passed on to us by Paul (2 Th. 3:6).
Is it edifying to help people secure their greatness in the forthcoming kingdom of God? (Mt. 5:19). Surely it is edifying.
blessings...
BibleGuy
Friendly Greetings KohenMatt!
I love your question: "As an aside....Does God care if we label ourselves as "Christians", or that we are simply His people?"
My response: Only Israel comprises the people of God who are God’s possession/inheritance (Dt. 4:20).
Those who obey Jesus (1 Pe. 1:2) are identified as that people belonging to God (1 Pe. 2:9).
Thus, Christians are included in Israel. CHRISTIANS ARE ISRAELITES!
Since Israel is commanded to obey the Torah (Dt. 1:3; Mal. 4:4), it follows that Christians are commanded to obey the Torah.
CONCLUSION: Once we understand who we are (Israel), then we understand how we should live (Torah).
blessings...
BibleGuy
I love your question: "As an aside....Does God care if we label ourselves as "Christians", or that we are simply His people?"
My response: Only Israel comprises the people of God who are God’s possession/inheritance (Dt. 4:20).
Those who obey Jesus (1 Pe. 1:2) are identified as that people belonging to God (1 Pe. 2:9).
Thus, Christians are included in Israel. CHRISTIANS ARE ISRAELITES!
Since Israel is commanded to obey the Torah (Dt. 1:3; Mal. 4:4), it follows that Christians are commanded to obey the Torah.
CONCLUSION: Once we understand who we are (Israel), then we understand how we should live (Torah).
blessings...
BibleGuy
Yes it is the same Torah. Remember what is born in the natural is reborn in the Spiritual.
The Ritual and Ceremonial laws have been written into our hearts and minds and now applies spiritually. The Moral law was and is already spiritual and still applies to us today.
Jesus did not come to abolish the law but to fulfill it. He is the Testator of a New Covenant.
We now look to the spiritual application of the law and uphold it.
The Ritual and Ceremonial laws have been written into our hearts and minds and now applies spiritually. The Moral law was and is already spiritual and still applies to us today.
Jesus did not come to abolish the law but to fulfill it. He is the Testator of a New Covenant.
We now look to the spiritual application of the law and uphold it.
