So what about the fourth commandment?

[seed_time_harvest]

The cross changed everything.

No it didn't.

There was the old covenant but the person had to keep the ten commandments to be righteous and the ten commandments had to be kept perfectly.

If any of GOD's perfect standard was offended,then the whole thing was offended and JESUS had not yet made atonement for us,so then those under law had to keep the law perfectly on their own and Moses said that those under law shall live by It.

When JESUS came,HE ushered In the new testament which nailed the law which was the ministratin of death to the cross,so then when you say the cross didn't change everything,you must be talking about things In the old covenant that did not pertain to the law.


Either the person Is under law and on their own or they are under grace and giving GOD all the credit,but a person can't say that they are under law and also under grace both.

I know you don't want to hear that over and over,but Its bible truth.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

well, I did live there for a few years. But then I started to go by what Scripture says instead of a SUN-day school teacher.

FWIW > Noahide laws in Acts 15 from The Jewish Encyclopedia

 

[disciplemike]

There was the old covenant but the person had to keep the ten commandments to be righteous and the ten commandments had to be kept perfectly.

If any of GOD's perfect standard was offended,then the whole thing was offended and JESUS had not yet made atonement for us,so then those under law had to keep the law perfectly on their own and Moses said that those under law shall live by It.

When JESUS came,HE ushered In the new testament which nailed the law which was the ministratin of death to the cross,so then when you say the cross didn't change everything,you must be talking about things In the old covenant that did not pertain to the law.


Either the person Is under law and on their own or they are under grace and giving GOD all the credit,but a person can't say that they are under law and also under grace both.

I know you don't want to hear that over and over,but Its bible truth.

I was not the one who said "No it didn't".
However, law is not the opposite of grace.
God loves us, and He wants the best for us, so He instructs us. It is just that simple.
Now, which of the applicable laws for us do you want to throw out?

 

[disciplemike]

FWIW > Noahide laws in Acts 15 from The Jewish Encyclopedia

I know where the term came from. I am just telling that in Scripture, there is no such thing as Noahide laws.

 

[Depleted]

I don't think I have ignored questions, at least not intentionally. It is about 20 to 1 here, okay. What did I miss? Send me a message if you want.

So it's not just about the sabbath for you is it? What's the group you are involved with??

No denomination. We study Scripture, house to house, and Feast-day gatherings. We all came out of the Sunday Church. I was with the Baptists for about 12 years.

He didn't ask which denomination. He asked which group. You said "We" indicating group.

Do you study the teachings of anybody we would know?

Let's see. Yeshua, Moshe, Shaul, Yacov, Yohannaon the Immerser,... do you read any of these?

(You don't simply come up with those names by reading KJV, but you're pretending this is where you got that.)

I've read them all. The question was about teachings of those other than scripture that you study.

I can back up what I say with Scripture. Let us use the Scriptures as our Teacher for now.

Another dismissed question.

So you do study the teachings of others, but you don't want to say who they are. I got it. Okie Dokie then.

you are somewhat correct. I believe in Messiah HaMashiach. His Name is Yehoshua, or Yeshua for short. I have left the greek jesus behind.

And how about that? Right after saying let's "use the Scripture as our Teacher," we get...

Besorah Matityah. The Good News of Matthew (Chapters 1-10)

Besorah Matityah. The Good News of Matthew (Chapters 1-10)

several sources on the internet to verify this.

And then simply ignored my first post, because apparently it isn't what is Sabbath rest as much as WHEN is Sabbath.

Phony. Fake. Taken from rabbinical treatises against Catholicism.

Take a look. A primer on the absurdities of the Sacred Name Movement by a Messianic Jew. Only 11min.

[video]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Fx8hi4Dpaas[/video]

Just for starters.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

There was the old covenant but the person had to keep the ten commandments to be righteous and the ten commandments had to be kept perfectly.

If any of GOD's perfect standard was offended,then the whole thing was offended and JESUS had not yet made atonement for us,so then those under law had to keep the law perfectly on their own and Moses said that those under law shall live by It.

When JESUS came,HE ushered In the new testament which nailed the law which was the ministratin of death to the cross,so then when you say the cross didn't change everything,you must be talking about things In the old covenant that did not pertain to the law.


Either the person Is under law and on their own or they are under grace and giving GOD all the credit,but a person can't say that they are under law and also under grace both.

I know you don't want to hear that over and over,but Its bible truth.

I don't want to hear it because it's not the truth. GOD did not expect men under the law to be perfect (flawless). He expected them to be blameless. And many were.

according to zeal persecuting the church, according to the righteousness in the law being blameless. Philippians 3:6​

 

[Grace777x70]

Does anyone wear linen with wool?....breaking the law

Does anyone bring animal sacrifices? - breaking the law

There are 613 of them. Break one - you break the law. The law is not of faith. The righteous shall live by faith in Christ and His finished work for salvation. Anything else is a perversion of the gospel.

Paul had Judaizers come in after he preached the pure gospel to the Galatians and he said to them " Who has bewitched you?"

And then he said this.

Galatians 3:2-3 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?

[SUP]3 [/SUP] Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?

I think disciplemike needs to go check out the thread called "Dear Bibleguy"...the law keepers are being refuted there.

 

[crossnote]

ok, let's add in a little context. The law is not for justification (salvation). It never was. As far as Acts 15, you need to keep reading. Brother James tells them that the new believers can learn more about the law of Moses in synagogue. >>

Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and
[from] fornication, and [from] things strangled, and [from] blood .For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day. Acts 15:19-21 (KJV)

The law isn't for sanctification either...

Romans 7:4 KJVS
[4] Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

 

[disciplemike]

He didn't ask which denomination. He asked which group. You said "We" indicating group.
(You don't simply come up with those names by reading KJV, but you're pretending this is where you got that.)


Another dismissed question.


And how about that? Right after saying let's "use the Scripture as our Teacher," we get...

And then simply ignored my first post, because apparently it isn't what is Sabbath rest as much as WHEN is Sabbath.

Just for starters.

1. we - my wife and myself, a few other couples. we don't have a name. sorry.
2. if you have a kjv and a strong's concordance, you can indeed come up with the names.
3. what teachings have I used? dozens. no names needed at this point.
4. some of the other "questions" are not easily understood. Or I don't know the answer.
hope this helps.

 

[crossnote]

What state did you say you live in? Oh that's right - Denial.

Denial? Ain't that a river?

 

[crossnote]

Colossians 2:16-17 KJVS
[16] Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days : [17] Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

 

[badger58]

Have I ever sinned? yes, of course. And I repent, and I understand that it is wrong. This is why I have a Savior. But I don't throw out the law because I don't like that one.

Why would Paul say this if it mattered?
Whatever is done in faith, that seems to be his point.

Romans 14:5 ►






Parallel Verses

New International Version
One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind.

 

[disciplemike]

The law isn't for sanctification either...

Romans 7:4 KJVS
[4] Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

Romans 7 is one of my favorites. okay, read this, back up to verse 1. Shaul is speaking to people who know the law. If you are not familiar with the Old Testament, you may not get this. Verse 2. He is speaking about one specific law - the law of marriage, or in the KJV, the law of the husband. In the law, if a man divorces his wife, he can't later change his mind and then take her back. This is not allowed. Okay, here is the part most people miss. In the "Old Testament", God divorced the Northern Kingdom of Israel, because of her unfaithfulness. Later, God says He is going to take Israel back. (Pssst. This is what that whole marriage supper of the Lamb is about). But wait, we have a problem. God's own law says that He can't do that. However, as Shaul explains, when the husband dies, the woman is freed from the law of marriage! Yeshua died! Three days later, He arose!!! Now, He can legally take back His bride, Israel. It is really an awesome story of God's love for us! This is what Romans 7:1-6 is talking about.

 

[Cee]

I can usually tell a law keeper, because they like to use Hebraic words even though they are speaking English, and the only time they use these words in discussions of religion. If you want to keep the law, great, do it.

Here's how you do it:

Galatians 11:11But if I, brothers,[SUP]b[/SUP] still preach[SUP]c[/SUP] circumcision, why am I still being persecuted? In that case the offense of the cross has been removed.

Look at this Scripture and think really clearly. Why was Paul persecuted by the JEWS? Because Paul taught they didn't need to keep the law. What do you think the offense of the cross is? It offends the law-keepers because of jealousy over OUR freedom. They try to put other people in bondage to their law keeping. It is done through control and guilt. Not because they want to do it, but because they themselves are under it.

"I keep the law because I love Jesus."

Okay great then YOU keep the law. Have fun with it. If that is important to you, then go at it. But when you start saying things like this to get other people to feel like they have to keep the law to love Jesus like you you're engaging in manipulation. Let that one sink deep. You are not the Holy Spirit. WE do not convict people. Fancy Hebraic words do not make us an authority.

Galatians 11:12I wish those who unsettle you would emasculate themselves!

Any idea why Paul says emasculate? Because the law keepers taught they needed circumcision to be right with God. How did Paul feel about doing anything outside of Christ to be right with God? He wanted them to emasculate themselves.

Galatians 11:13For you were called to freedom, brothers. Only do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another.

You were called to freedom. That means you're free. Seriously. You don't have to do anything to be right with God. You are right with God. And BECAUSE you are loved and right with God. You can serve one another without obligation. Love serves without obligation. Remember the parable between the elder brother and the younger brother? Who was that directed at? Pharisees. Why? Because they served God under obligation. So when his younger brother came in without obligation he was jealous.

Galatians 11:14For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

For the WHOLE law is fulfilled in one word. Note the absence of loving God. That's because now we show love for God by our love for one another. Remember the sheep and the goats? Mhmm.

Loving people is the WHOLE law. Because loving people is how you show you love God for loving you and setting you free. Now without obligation you get to love others. That's freedom. Freedom to love.

Galatians 2:14But when I saw that their conduct was not in step with the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas before them all, “If you, though a Jew, live like a Gentile and not like a Jew, how can you force the Gentiles to live like Jews?”

C.

 

[BeyondET]

Fruitless debate about the sabbath no one here can keep it in its true form intended, by the signs in the sky, moon, stars.
you have to restep each day backwards in time to correct it impossible feat. if your employer tells you to be at work each Monday moon day, then you go to work on that day this isn't keeping the natural time frame of days. the sabbath that being will at some point be on a modern calander day of Monday or any other day. if you try to keep the sabbath in its true form and what ever your work day starts according to your employer, the sabbath day going by the signs in the sky will arise on any modern day. each modern day is named after idols of planetary objects that is a issue in its self Saturday is Saturn Friday is Venus and so on. This is another reason why Jesus came everything has been thrown out of time order as its was intended to be kepted.

 

[crossnote]

Romans 7 is one of my favorites. okay, read this, back up to verse 1. Shaul is speaking to people who know the law. If you are not familiar with the Old Testament, you may not get this. Verse 2. He is speaking about one specific law - the law of marriage, or in the KJV, the law of the husband. In the law, if a man divorces his wife, he can't later change his mind and then take her back. This is not allowed. Okay, here is the part most people miss. In the "Old Testament", God divorced the Northern Kingdom of Israel, because of her unfaithfulness. Later, God says He is going to take Israel back. (Pssst. This is what that whole marriage supper of the Lamb is about). But wait, we have a problem. God's own law says that He can't do that. However, as Shaul explains, when the husband dies, the woman is freed from the law of marriage! Yeshua died! Three days later, He arose!!! Now, He can legally take back His bride, Israel. It is really an awesome story of God's love for us! This is what Romans 7:1-6 is talking about.

Paul is speaking to both Jews and Gentiles in the Book of Romans. When he uses coveting as an example in Rom 7, it is a universal problem. In Rom 1-3 he concluded both Jew and Gentile guilty under the Mosaic law and the law in our conscience.

Why are you trying to put others back under that which Christ has set us free?

Galatians 2:18-21 KJVS
[18] For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. [19] For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. [20] I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. [21] I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

 

[Zmouth]

We can trust the Holy Spirit in us to lead us in all things. The law of the Spirit of life in Christ will stop us from having sex with animals as in Lev. 18:23. I don't need to know the law that says not to have sex with animals.

The son of David wrote, I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.

Now according to your NIV translation; He created them male and female and blessed them. And he name them 'Mankind' when they were created.

So in Lev 18:22 wherein it is written that it is a abomination to lie with mankind, then obviously that would mean with a male or female since your unless your translation is arbitrarily changing the words around to suit it own purpose, mankind would be same word in the Greek, would it not?

ADAM OT:120 'adam (aw-dawm'); from OT:119; ruddy i.e. a human being (an individual or the species, mankind, etc.):
MANKIND OT:2145 zakar (zaw-kawr'); from OT:2142; properly, remembered, i.e. a male (of man or animals, as being the most noteworthy sex):

 

[disciplemike]

I can usually tell a law keeper, because they like to use Hebraic words even though they are speaking English, and the only time they use these words in discussions of religion. If you want to keep the law, great, do it.

Here's how you do it:

Galatians 11:11But if I, brothers,[SUP]b[/SUP] still preach[SUP]c[/SUP] circumcision, why am I still being persecuted? In that case the offense of the cross has been removed.

Look at this Scripture and think really clearly. Why was Paul persecuted by the JEWS? Because Paul taught they didn't need to keep the law. What do you think the offense of the cross is? It offends the law-keepers because of jealousy over OUR freedom. They try to put other people in bondage to their law keeping. It is done through control and guilt. Not because they want to do it, but because they themselves are under it.

"I keep the law because I love Jesus."

Okay great then YOU keep the law. Have fun with it. If that is important to you, then go at it. But when you start saying things like this to get other people to feel like they have to keep the law to love Jesus like you you're engaging in manipulation. Let that one sink deep. You are not the Holy Spirit. WE do not convict people. Fancy Hebraic words do not make us an authority.

Galatians 11:12I wish those who unsettle you would emasculate themselves!

Any idea why Paul says emasculate? Because the law keepers taught they needed circumcision to be right with God. How did Paul feel about doing anything outside of Christ to be right with God? He wanted them to emasculate themselves.

Galatians 11:13For you were called to freedom, brothers. Only do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another.

You were called to freedom. That means you're free. Seriously. You don't have to do anything to be right with God. You are right with God. And BECAUSE you are loved and right with God. You can serve one another without obligation. Love serves without obligation. Remember the parable between the elder brother and the younger brother? Who was that directed at? Pharisees. Why? Because they served God under obligation. So when his younger brother came in without obligation he was jealous.

Galatians 11:14For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

For the WHOLE law is fulfilled in one word. Note the absence of loving God. That's because now we show love for God by our love for one another. Remember the sheep and the goats? Mhmm.

Loving people is the WHOLE law. Because loving people is how you show you love God for loving you and setting you free. Now without obligation you get to love others. That's freedom. Freedom to love.

Galatians 2:14But when I saw that their conduct was not in step with the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas before them all, “If you, though a Jew, live like a Gentile and not like a Jew, how can you force the Gentiles to live like Jews?”

C.

Ok, let's start here.
1. The Messiah said if you love Me, keep My commandments. If you have a problem with that, there is not much I can do.
2. Peter withdrew from eating with the gentiles. He did so because that was a man-made law, most likely by the Pharisees. There is no law in Torah that says Jews can't eat with gentiles.
3. God's law is not bondage. The thousands of added laws by the scribes and Pharisees, that was the bondage. Again, God's law is not bondage at all.
4. About circumcision, according to Shaul, these believer WERE circumcised, but with the circumcision of the heart. Himself and Shimone-Keefa both saw new believers receive the Ruach HaKodesh, the Holy Spirit. So yes, they agreed afterwards that physical circumcision was not necessary for the believers who had the circumcision of the heart.

 

[disciplemike]

Paul is speaking to both Jews and Gentiles in the Book of Romans. When he uses coveting as an example in Rom 7, it is a universal problem. In Rom 1-3 he concluded both Jew and Gentile guilty under the Mosaic law and the law in our conscience.

Why are you trying to put others back under that which Christ has set us free?

Galatians 2:18-21 KJVS
[18] For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. [19] For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. [20] I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. [21] I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

You are not listening. I told you what that passage in Romans was about, the law of marriage. But you don't want to see it. Why are you people so afraid of God's laws? Have you read Isaiah? We will be keeping Sabbath right on into the 1000 year reign of Messiah. Why would you not want Sabbath? It does not make sense.

 

[disciplemike]

Fruitless debate about the sabbath no one here can keep it in its true form intended, by the signs in the sky, moon, stars.
you have to restep each day backwards in time to correct it impossible feat. if your employer tells you to be at work each Monday moon day, then you go to work on that day this isn't keeping the natural time frame of days. the sabbath that being will at some point be on a modern calander day of Monday or any other day. if you try to keep the sabbath in its true form and what ever your work day starts according to your employer, the sabbath day going by the signs in the sky will arise on any modern day. each modern day is named after idols of planetary objects that is a issue in its self Saturday is Saturn Friday is Venus and so on. This is another reason why Jesus came everything has been thrown out of time order as its was intended to be kepted.

wrong. all you have to do is count to 7.