Against OSAS: some of the best warnings to the churches!
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I was not implying that you or others in the NOSAS camp can't understand Scripture because you are high on drugs. LOL! I just found it interesting that PaulMack mentioned drugs and I immediately thought of Revelation 9:21. I can say random things sometimes. 
I view "sorcery" -"pharmakeia" as when the flesh tries to manipulate others by either coercion or "the mixing of things together" to get a desired result that is manipulative.
I also recognize the "drug" part too of "pharmakeia" but I firmly believe that "witchcraft" or "sorcery" can be practiced by Christians walking according to the flesh where they try to "manipulate" others to get what they want. Spiritual witchcraft in essence and this is done by using scriptures too. It is one of the works of the flesh in Gal 5:20.
The problem p_rehbein is you do come off as being self righteous whenever you do not like the answers from others.
You do act like only you have the Truth and all others are idiots by your standards.
You never debate you always attack first. When it comes to Theology you are still a baby yearning for the milk of the Scriptures.
There are a lot of us here who are into the meat of the Scriptures and most likely will disagree with you.
You do act like only you have the Truth and all others are idiots by your standards.
You never debate you always attack first. When it comes to Theology you are still a baby yearning for the milk of the Scriptures.
There are a lot of us here who are into the meat of the Scriptures and most likely will disagree with you.
================================================
ka,
for ourselves, hubby and myself, we have never 'judged' PR as being self-righteousness, quite the contrary,
he has always shown to us than he possess an open mind and a fair analysis of others opinions...
you owe him an apology, with humility in tact...,but of course, it would be a miracle
for that to be forth-coming...
ka,
for ourselves, hubby and myself, we have never 'judged' PR as being self-righteousness, quite the contrary,
he has always shown to us than he possess an open mind and a fair analysis of others opinions...
you owe him an apology, with humility in tact...,but of course, it would be a miracle
for that to be forth-coming...
A
C'mon now, family. We all know what's going on here. Wake up! The god of this world seeks to devour... let's not help him by devouring one another. Jesus despised the humiliation, remember? He paid no attention at all to insults and offenses. Love is patient and kind... love doesn't keep score of who did what to whom... love believes & hopes all things... love never fails. Let's continue discussing our topic and Jesus will continue revealing himself.
This is all from a biased view point. And not true. I have always gone to great lengths to welcome the different beliefs of others, and to embrace those who disagree with me concerning Theology, or those I disagree with concerning Theology, by extending the hand of Christian fellowship to all blood washed believers.
As for attacking FIRST......not likely.......in all the posts I have posted here is it possible that I may have done so once? Sure, I suppose........but I never attack anyone FIRST if at all possible to keep from doing so. And it is usually quite possible.
The truth is, you do not know me well enough to be making these judgments. There are many here who know better than what you are saying. I NEVER ACT LIKE only I have the Truth. Many, many times, I make it quite clear in my comments that what I am is saying is IMO and not "carved in stone."
As for others being idiots by my standards...........well, given my "standards" are blood washed, born again, believers in and disciples of Jesus Christ, and believing in the Holy Trinity. Anyone who fits these "standards" is a Brother or Sister in Christ. If those "standards" are too strict........I don't know what I can say. They are the standards set forth by Jesus Christ Himself.
I have engaged in so many meaningful and fruitful debates here that it isn't even worth giving your comment on this issue credibility.
As for Theology............God sent His beloved Son, who took upon Himself the form of man, who preached the Gospel of the New Covenant Grace, and established God's Salvation Plan for all mankind with His death, burial, and resurrection and ascension to the Throne, where He our Lord, Savior, King, Intercessor forever.
Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior established His Church. And, for awhile, man was pleased with that. However, man soon realized that there was no profit in the operations of the Church established by Christ, so man created Religion. That was ok for a time, but, as one would expect, soon disputations arose among them, and man created denominations. The explosion of the differing denominations was very confusing to all. So man created Theology. In this way, each of the man established denominations could lay out their "reasoning" of the Gospel, and establish rules and guidelines members of their denominations must adhere to if they wished to remain a member in good standing.
Now, concerning the understanding of the Gospel of Christ, and the teachings of the Apostles, I have a pretty good grip on that. I have never claimed to be the "only person" in the world to have "FULL AND COMPLETE" understanding of all Scripture. Nor do I know of anyone who does. So very many times I have stated on the various Forums here, that all we are doing, at best, is expressing our beliefs/our interpretations of Scripture, and none of us can claim to have "perfect understanding.'
I left the "carnal" stage of Christianity a very long time ago when I was filled with the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit. He is my guide, my instructor, my teacher, my comforter, and my voice when necessary. It is HIS wisdom and understanding that I lean on, not mine. I do not really care if you believe that or not.
I could say so very many things to your claiming to be "in the meat" of Scriptures, but I will refrain from doing so, for that would only lead to more discourse. I do not mind when people disagree with me. What I mind is when those people do not do so with Christian love and respect for the opinions/beliefs of others, and tell me how I am a "false Christian" and such, as have you and your two amigos here.
If the attitude the three of you have displayed is your "evidence" for the three of you being in "the meat of Scripture," hmm...........and it appears that ONLY THOSE who agree with you are considered to be in the "meat of Scripture." Anyone who disagrees with you are false Christians or worse.......so kind and loving.....
Maybe because I am not afraid to stand up for myself when challenged, and not afraid when two or three like minded individuals go after me, and will stand my ground in the face of their attack, maybe this is why you see me as "being self righteous."
One thing is for sure. The unChristian level of insults, belittlement, and outright lies the three of you espoused here, have assured me that I will withdraw the Christian hand of fellowship from you. If you three could post the comments you did, then I can only wonder what you would be capable of in the future.
Put me on Ignore...........do as you wish, it matters not to me.
As for attacking FIRST......not likely.......in all the posts I have posted here is it possible that I may have done so once? Sure, I suppose........but I never attack anyone FIRST if at all possible to keep from doing so. And it is usually quite possible.
The truth is, you do not know me well enough to be making these judgments. There are many here who know better than what you are saying. I NEVER ACT LIKE only I have the Truth. Many, many times, I make it quite clear in my comments that what I am is saying is IMO and not "carved in stone."
As for others being idiots by my standards...........well, given my "standards" are blood washed, born again, believers in and disciples of Jesus Christ, and believing in the Holy Trinity. Anyone who fits these "standards" is a Brother or Sister in Christ. If those "standards" are too strict........I don't know what I can say. They are the standards set forth by Jesus Christ Himself.
I have engaged in so many meaningful and fruitful debates here that it isn't even worth giving your comment on this issue credibility.
As for Theology............God sent His beloved Son, who took upon Himself the form of man, who preached the Gospel of the New Covenant Grace, and established God's Salvation Plan for all mankind with His death, burial, and resurrection and ascension to the Throne, where He our Lord, Savior, King, Intercessor forever.
Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior established His Church. And, for awhile, man was pleased with that. However, man soon realized that there was no profit in the operations of the Church established by Christ, so man created Religion. That was ok for a time, but, as one would expect, soon disputations arose among them, and man created denominations. The explosion of the differing denominations was very confusing to all. So man created Theology. In this way, each of the man established denominations could lay out their "reasoning" of the Gospel, and establish rules and guidelines members of their denominations must adhere to if they wished to remain a member in good standing.
Now, concerning the understanding of the Gospel of Christ, and the teachings of the Apostles, I have a pretty good grip on that. I have never claimed to be the "only person" in the world to have "FULL AND COMPLETE" understanding of all Scripture. Nor do I know of anyone who does. So very many times I have stated on the various Forums here, that all we are doing, at best, is expressing our beliefs/our interpretations of Scripture, and none of us can claim to have "perfect understanding.'
I left the "carnal" stage of Christianity a very long time ago when I was filled with the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit. He is my guide, my instructor, my teacher, my comforter, and my voice when necessary. It is HIS wisdom and understanding that I lean on, not mine. I do not really care if you believe that or not.
I could say so very many things to your claiming to be "in the meat" of Scriptures, but I will refrain from doing so, for that would only lead to more discourse. I do not mind when people disagree with me. What I mind is when those people do not do so with Christian love and respect for the opinions/beliefs of others, and tell me how I am a "false Christian" and such, as have you and your two amigos here.
If the attitude the three of you have displayed is your "evidence" for the three of you being in "the meat of Scripture," hmm...........and it appears that ONLY THOSE who agree with you are considered to be in the "meat of Scripture." Anyone who disagrees with you are false Christians or worse.......so kind and loving.....
Maybe because I am not afraid to stand up for myself when challenged, and not afraid when two or three like minded individuals go after me, and will stand my ground in the face of their attack, maybe this is why you see me as "being self righteous."
One thing is for sure. The unChristian level of insults, belittlement, and outright lies the three of you espoused here, have assured me that I will withdraw the Christian hand of fellowship from you. If you three could post the comments you did, then I can only wonder what you would be capable of in the future.
Put me on Ignore...........do as you wish, it matters not to me.
T
Hi Ken
I think a little bit of grace is called for here.
I think your accusations are bit strong.
He is not arrogant or self-righteous.
He got the wrong impression of a post I wrote and then attributed a post to me that I did not write.
Although he got upset at the time he also realised his mistake and made a personal apology to me that I immediately accepted.
None of us have perfect doctrine.
I can see that p_rehbein is definitely passionate about his beliefs and doctrinal position.
I probably do not agree completely with everything he says.
(Not everyone agrees with everything that I say either.)
However, I would count it my great privilege to stand by this man one day in heaven and worship our Saviour together.
I think this is unlikely however, if there is a ranking of the saints, I fear he will be far too close to the throne room of God for me to catch sight of him, given his great passion for God.
I think a little bit of grace is called for here.
I think your accusations are bit strong.
He is not arrogant or self-righteous.
He got the wrong impression of a post I wrote and then attributed a post to me that I did not write.
Although he got upset at the time he also realised his mistake and made a personal apology to me that I immediately accepted.
None of us have perfect doctrine.
I can see that p_rehbein is definitely passionate about his beliefs and doctrinal position.
I probably do not agree completely with everything he says.
(Not everyone agrees with everything that I say either.)
However, I would count it my great privilege to stand by this man one day in heaven and worship our Saviour together.
I think this is unlikely however, if there is a ranking of the saints, I fear he will be far too close to the throne room of God for me to catch sight of him, given his great passion for God.
how absurd. It is you who have something to figure. God has justified us through Christ, and His cross alone. We admit that without that we would have had no hope. We look to Him alone to save us all the way through from beginning to end. 'Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, by the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit.' It is if we added our works to what He had done that we would be boasting. 'Not of works lest any man should boast'. Unless he has done away with self-righteousness a man cannot be justified before God (Rom 3.19-27)
Brother, I thought about not responding to this comment, because I was afraid anything I said would seem self aggrandizing, or some such. However, such kindness and Christian love deserves to be recognized. You are far too kind, and I assure you..........ALL I seek from our Lord and Savior is a small place in the far distant corner of His Kingdom. That would be far more than I deserve, and without His precious Grace, far more than I would ever receive were I judged according to my worth.
In recognition of your display of Christian love and kindness...........I will bow out of this Thread, and bid all here God bless and go in peace.
Again, thank you for your kind words.
In recognition of your display of Christian love and kindness...........I will bow out of this Thread, and bid all here God bless and go in peace.
Again, thank you for your kind words.
So someone who once believed on Jesus and was baptized, but then many years down the road turns away from the Faith and becomes an atheist, is STILL SAVED by Jesus??? (And I know someone that is exactly in this situation. They're in my family). That situation completely dumps OSAS on its head.
2 Cor 6:14-15
14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
KJV
2 Cor 6:14-15
14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
KJV
Most likely what happens when people "dump" christianity - they are not dumping Christ - they are dumping our portrayal of Him and turned away because of someone else's idea of God and Christ.
If they were born-again they are safe in their spirit sealed with the Holy Spirit( Eph 1:13 ) and they are just sick in their minds because of all the religious nonsense that gets thrown at them.
They are not thinking correctly and have most likely just rebelled against the way Christ was portrayed by some people.
People of the world can tell the difference between religion and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Many have 'believed in Jesus Christ and have been baptised'. They were like those in john 2.23-25., believing because of signs. Jesus KNEW what was in them. They did not have saving faith. He knew that some disciples would eventully go from Him, because they had never received the Spirit. Your verse shows it.
It says NOTHING about TRUE believers who are truly born of the Spirit of whom Jesus said they would NEVER Be lost (John 6.39)..
It says NOTHING about TRUE believers who are truly born of the Spirit of whom Jesus said they would NEVER Be lost (John 6.39)..
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I like the response I heard from a Pastor, who was tired and didn't want to get into all the Scripture relating to eternal security, when told by a smug listener at one of his conferences that he believed people could lose their Salvation.
His reply was " Maybe you can lose your salvation, but I can't lose mine, because I know the One who gave it to me".
Red faced, angry, and feeling self condemned the young man just turned and walked away.
His reply was " Maybe you can lose your salvation, but I can't lose mine, because I know the One who gave it to me".
Red faced, angry, and feeling self condemned the young man just turned and walked away.