Against OSAS: some of the best warnings to the churches!

[ZacharyB]

Either I'm now a saint because of Christ like God said, or I'm a sinner "being" saved by obedience.

Yes, tough question! ... Seriously, we need to ...
RECONCILE the OSAS NT verses ...with... the anti-OSAS NT verses!
In order to arrive at spiritual Truth about this critical matter.

Just one simple example ...
Jesus said 3 times in John 14: "If you love Me, obey My commandments."
Jesus said 1 time in John 14: "If you are My friend, you will obey My commandments."
Does anyone get into heaven who does not love Jesus, who is not His friend?
You decide.

 

[ZacharyB]

Wonderful Scriptures that talk about the security of the believer, about our salvation by grace through faith, and about the eternal life given to believers! But none of them say that once a person is saved, he will always be saved. None of them say that a person who is not believing in Jesus is saved.

One KEY is the group of 15 NT verses which insist that:
Believers need to endure in their faith until the end of their lives to have eternal life!

This will be especially obvious:
(1) during the great tribulation of the antichrist
(2) when threatened to take the mark of the beast

The NT warns that failure during one or both of these will result in loss of salvation!

 

[ZacharyB]

Yes! Imagine the joy of those who have come to think they've lost their salvation because of
the self-maintenance teachers, but then they come into the presence of God upon their passing.
Their surprise might be similar to the Prodigal's as the Father ran to meet him.

Perhaps we should view the return of the prodigal son
... as being the same as ...
a born-again believer returning to the faith (and to God) after sincere repentance!

 

[ZacharyB]

I can understand why some have doubts about their salvation.

Dost thou thinkest that everyone is doubting their salvations
when dey produce 100 NT verses which teach this is possible?
(Some of the 100 are much more obvious about said problema than udder verses are.)

 

[ZacharyB]

We are justified by faith alone. Being justified by faith we then practise righteousness (Rom 5-6).
we cannot lose GOD'S SALVATION. He carries it through from start to finish (John 10.28-29)

"Those who practice righteousness are righteous." (1 John)

So, I guess this also true, right? ...
"Those who do NOT practice righteousness are righteous."

Also, you have NO clue as to what John 10:27-28 is talking about.
Do you hear Jesus' voice?
Does Jesus know (approve of) you?
Do you follow Jesus?

Jesus says if you love Him, you will follow Him and obey His commandments.
How you doing with all of these things?

 

[ZacharyB]

The entire gospel, Jesus' entire message is one of grace and trusting
we are who God says we are and not who we think or feel we are.

You have NO understanding of what the entire gospel teaches!
I'll send you a NT.

 

[notuptome]

Dost thou thinkest that everyone is doubting their salvations
when dey produce 100 NT verses which teach this is possible?
(Some of the 100 are much more obvious about said problema than udder verses are.)

Many are attempting to convince themselves that they are saved but in truth they have never met the Savior.

If you have experienced the new birth in Christ you know that you cannot lose the salvation Christ has given you. The butterfly cannot return to the caterpillar and has no desire to do so.

Carp about sanctification all you want but the regeneration wrought in the heart cannot be undone.

Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes, tough question! ... Seriously, we need to ...
RECONCILE the OSAS NT verses ...with... the anti-OSAS NT verses!
In order to arrive at spiritual Truth about this critical matter.

Just one simple example ...
Jesus said 3 times in John 14: "If you love Me, obey My commandments."
Jesus said 1 time in John 14: "If you are My friend, you will obey My commandments."
Does anyone get into heaven who does not love Jesus, who is not His friend?
You decide.

Thus begs the question.

How can someone who knew their true plight against God. Repented, and been saved by God, not love him or want to be his friend?

Are they obedience to get saved (to earn his love) or because they are saved (have been shown his love)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

One KEY is the group of 15 NT verses which insist that:
Believers need to endure in their faith until the end of their lives to have eternal life!

This will be especially obvious:
(1) during the great tribulation of the antichrist
(2) when threatened to take the mark of the beast

The NT warns that failure during one or both of these will result in loss of salvation!

Actually those passages are talking about their physical lives being saved, and them witnessing the return of Christ and entering the kingdom without being killed.

Not eternal salvation/

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Perhaps we should view the return of the prodigal son
... as being the same as ...
a born-again believer returning to the faith (and to God) after sincere repentance!

or we could view him as a true son, Who forgot what his father gave him, and left to go out on his own, And relaised after he left. He can not live on his own, He is dead without his father, and returns.

But never stopped being the son.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Dost thou thinkest that everyone is doubting their salvations
when dey produce 100 NT verses which teach this is possible?
(Some of the 100 are much more obvious about said problema than udder verses are.)

the problem are they misinterpret the verses they do not say what they think they are saying.

there are far to many verses which provbe eternal security, which far outways the few verses taken out of context which appear to say salvation can be lost, but do not.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

"Those who practice righteousness are righteous." (1 John)

So, I guess this also true, right? ...
"Those who do NOT practice righteousness are righteous."

Also, you have NO clue as to what John 10:27-28 is talking about.
Do you hear Jesus' voice?
Does Jesus know (approve of) you?
Do you follow Jesus?

Jesus says if you love Him, you will follow Him and obey His commandments.
How you doing with all of these things?

How are you doing? god said you must be perfect if you want to get to heaven on your own, Otherwise you have sinned and fall short of Gods standard, and need to be saved.

God also says we all have sinned and fall short (present tense) so we are all in the same boat.

 

[UnderGrace]

How sad the actions of God and HIS justification of the sinner is being debated, to call in question what God has declared!

Being saved is having been justified by God. It is a legal declaration by God towards the sinner who has accepted and understood the work of the cross for themselves and therefore declared innocent.

The biblical doctrine of justification concerns the Judge of all the earth uttering a legal pronouncement in the offender’s favour, in advance of the day of judgment, which takes immediate effect and which cannot be changed. It means the offender can walk free. ‘If the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed’ (John 8:36).

The person is in a right legal standing before the heavenly court. It is the opposite of condemnation (Romans 5:16,18; 8:33-34). ‘To condemn’ means to declare a person guilty and to pronounce sentence. ‘To justify’ is to declare a person not guilty, and acquitted of all charges. ‘He will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life’ (John 5:24; cf. 3:18).

To question God’s declaration as Judge you place yourself above HIM and you deny the work of the cross in a believer’s life and declare God a liar!!

 

[ZacharyB]

Carp about sanctification all you want but the regeneration wrought in the heart cannot be undone.

Yes, this is all very exciting ...
while you IGNORE the 100 NT verses that warn about losing salvation.
Some of the 100 verses are obvious, while some are not so obvious.
The very tactful ones, which are not-so-obvious, simply remind us of the obvious ones.
100 or so in total ... IGNORE them at your peril.

The very least you should be doing is trying to reconcile them with your OSAS verses!

Similarly, IGNORE at your peril the proofs that disprove the disastrous pre-trib rapture doctrine.
What are you people going to do when the tribulation period is upon you?
Complain to your pastor?
Run from the little faith you have?

 

[ZacharyB]

Please tell me what is biblical grace?
I want to know so I can understand why there is this failure to communicate.

The failure is to take ALL of the NT verses into account.

IMO, God's grace is given initially to the born-again believer.
But, he can fall from grace ... one cannot fall from something he does not already have!
He can be estranged from Christ ... one cannot be estranged from something he does not already have!

Another question to ponder ...
Those who fall away from the faith -- have they fallen away from salvation?

IMO, if they repent, they can be reinstated back into the faith again --
back into a saved state again.

Perhaps all of the dire warnings are to produce such a result as this.

 

[ZacharyB]

... for all of those who are trying to steal Gods glory for themselves by thinking God isn't able....
"Now all glory to God, who is able to keep you from falling away and will bring you with great joy into His glorious presence without a single fault. All glory to Him who alone is God, our Savior through Jesus Christ our Lord. All glory, majesty, power, and authority are His before all time, and in the present, and beyond all time! Amen." Jude 24-25

IMO, it is wise to recognize WHO is being addressed in every instance in the NT.
Sometimes only the "faithful" saints are being given promises, etc. (e.g. Eph 1:1, Col 1:2).

Not all born-again believers are living faithfully,
i.e. they are living in habitual sin and refusing to repent of this.

Are these habitual sinners fruitful?
John 15 says they are unfruitful and will be thrown into the fire!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes, this is all very exciting ...
while you IGNORE the 100 NT verses that warn about losing salvation.
Some of the 100 verses are obvious, while some are not so obvious.
The very tactful ones, which are not-so-obvious, simply remind us of the obvious ones.
100 or so in total ... IGNORE them at your peril.

The very least you should be doing is trying to reconcile them with your OSAS verses!

Similarly, IGNORE at your peril the proofs that disprove the disastrous pre-trib rapture doctrine.
What are you people going to do when the tribulation period is upon you?
Complain to your pastor?
Run from the little faith you have?

Thats funny, Because not one verse says salvation can be lost when taken in context, and with the rest of scripture.

And this ignores the many many passages which esays our security is in christ, who sealed us with the spirit until that day we are ressurected as a promise.

I must ask,

1. Why do you want to earn your way to heaven?
2. What makes you think you are good enoough?
3. How good is good enough?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

IMO, it is wise to recognize WHO is being addressed in every instance in the NT.
Sometimes only the "faithful" saints are being given promises, etc. (e.g. Eph 1:1, Col 1:2).

Not all born-again believers are living faithfully,
i.e. they are living in habitual sin and refusing to repent of this.

John says this impossible, Just because someone claims to be born again does not mean they are..

1 John 2:
[SUP]
4 [/SUP]He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him

1 John 3: Speaking of habitual sin

[SUP]4 [/SUP]Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. [SUP]5 [/SUP]And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. [SUP]6 [/SUP]Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.


[SUP]7 [/SUP]Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. [SUP]8 [/SUP]He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. [SUP]9 [/SUP]Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

Are these habitual sinners fruitful?

They are liars. and they do not nor have they ever known God.

John 15 says they are unfruitful and will be thrown into the fire!

Well yeah, Because they never believed in the name of jesus (repented and had faith in the gospel)

 

[ZacharyB]

Romans 7 is between chapter 6 which is talking about the law
and then after verse 7 in Chapter 7 he continues talking about the law.

You have absolutely NO clue what Romans 6 is talking about.

Here's a very quick summary of Romans 6:
-- believers are no longer slaves to sin
-- believers need to choose who they will be slaves to
-- choose to continue being slaves to sin ... or ...
choose to be slaves of obedience, righteousness, and God
-- 3 times in an 8-verse span, Paul warns: sin results in death!
Since Jesus doesn't go around killing sinners, we iz talkin' about eternal death.

IMO, Paul is speaking of habitual (unrepentant) sinning!

 

[Grace777x70]

You have absolutely NO clue what Romans 6 is talking about.

Here's a very quick summary of Romans 6:
-- believers are no longer slaves to sin
-- believers need to choose who they will be slaves to
-- choose to continue being slaves to sin ... or ...
choose to be slaves of obedience, righteousness, and God
-- 3 times in an 8-verse span, Paul warns: sin results in death!
Since Jesus doesn't go around killing sinners, we iz talkin' about eternal death.

IMO, Paul is speaking of habitual (unrepentant) sinning!

Romans 6:14 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

Romans 7:1-6 talks about us having died to the law SO THAT we could be joined to Another - our Lord.

Romans 6:4-8 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.

[SUP]5 [/SUP] For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection,

[SUP]6 [/SUP] knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin;

[SUP]7 [/SUP] for he who has died is freed from sin.

[SUP]8 [/SUP] Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him,