Clarification on the word possession in the New Testament

[Ariel82]

Why are people worried about Demons? They have no power over those who have Jesus as their Lord and Savior.

Jesus Christ in us is greater than Demons and Satan in the World.

There are no mistakes in the Scriptures. Its because we have a mind set on what we want the Scriptures to say is why many say there are mistakes in the Scriptures.

What is interesting is we have had the Truth in the Scriptures for hundreds of years. But the last 100 years we have seem to lost our way and have lost the Truth.

What was believed long ago we have tossed aside to follow doctrines of Demons. I do believe with all my Heart we are on the edge of the End Times. We only have a few years left before we see Satan take the stage.

Probably we might even see possessions increase by leaps and bounds.

1. We aren't worried about demons, just discussing their schemes, tactics and false doctrines they try and use to deceive God's people.

2. Amen, Jesus is greater and we pray that all God's children know and believe that He loves them enough to fight for them and chase away all demons. However the lies people believe are spiritual strongholds that needs to be torn down. We need to identify and help one another tear them down using scripture and prayer.

3. ???? No one in this thread has said there are mistakes in scripture. Who are you addressing?

4. Even in the beginning doctrine of demons crept in and Paul wrote to rebuke the false doctrines of legalism and laviousness. We can find examples of the same errors we have today in the Revelation church...would be an interesting study.

However it is idealism to say "back then was so much better and purer than now". It wasnt, the Old world had its own set of troubles.

5....you totally didn't read or respond to the topic of how demons don't possess people/own them but how people own demons (and other familiar spirits)?

Do you believe that demons can make people do things against their will?

I have found more that demons entice and tempt people according to their own fleshly desires like pride, lust for power, gluttony, sloth....weakness of the flesh they haven't overcome, yet God has made a way for people to resist those temptations to sin if we are faithful to follow the leading of the Holy Spirit.

I am confused by your post....are you advocating people ignore demons or become more aware of the spiritual war going on?

 

[Ariel82]

If this thread is going to evolve into an "ends times, I know prophecy fulfilment better than you" thing, then I will bow out.

My stance on prophecy is....if your interpretation makes you lazy, feel safe that the end can't happen in the next second, causes your guard to drop concerning the spiritual war we are in, causes you to be prideful and look down on other people..,,,then you got it wrong.

Jesus tells us to keep watch, have oil for our lamps and we can't know when He will return.

 

[LaurenTM]

If this thread is going to evolve into an "ends times, I know prophecy fulfilment better than you" thing, then I will bow out.

My stance on prophecy is....if your interpretation makes you lazy, feel safe that the end can't happen in the next second, causes your guard to drop concerning the spiritual war we are in, causes you to be prideful and look down on other people..,,,then you got it wrong.

Jesus tells us to keep watch, have oil for our lamps and we can't know when He will return.

well, I for one won't let that happen

I have already reported the off topic post and attempt at derailment...the mods are here for that!

your post 21 is great

let's keep on track...thanks!

 

[LaurenTM]

Jesus said before the above:
See to it that no one misleads you. For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will mislead many.
Many false prophets will arise and will mislead many. Because lawlessness is increased, most people’s love will grow cold.

all the more reason to be aware of the tactics of the devil...distortion, half truths and mostly deception

thx for the rep

I think Ariel is on the right track with her first posts regarding wisdom

I sure appreciate everyone staying topic!

 

[prodigal]

hi i think sometimes possession and oppression get mixed up is they often appear very similar.
Take someone that maybe has been told they are uselss all their life. Their character often acts accordingly believing this to be true.
Now until they accept the truth about themselves and accept who they are in Christ, the light hasn't dispelled that part of their old character, so its still part of what makes their character which affects their ideology, which can have influence over their decisions.

So ultimately,as we accept the truth of Jesus in every area of our lifes,(is this possible in a life-time?), then maybe ,,influences in our decisions that arrive from that, continue.
But thats not demon possesion.

Always the truth will set you free.
Blessings

 

[Ariel82]

hi i think sometimes possession and oppression get mixed up is they often appear very similar.
Take someone that maybe has been told they are uselss all their life. Their character often acts accordingly believing this to be true.
Now until they accept the truth about themselves and accept who they are in Christ, the light hasn't dispelled that part of their old character, so its still part of what makes their character which affects their ideology, which can have influence over their decisions.

So ultimately,as we accept the truth of Jesus in every area of our lifes,(is this possible in a life-time?), then maybe ,,influences in our decisions that arrive from that, continue.
But thats not demon possesion.

Always the truth will set you free.
Blessings

That is what I would label a spiritual stronghold in a person's life that needs to be torn down. The best way is to show them verses about how much God loves them.

Also show that their lack of faith in themselves is really a lack of faith in God. He made them worthy of love and for a purpose. Do they believe that? Do they believe His promises?

Typically I would play music, talk to them and read Bible verses with them. If the spirit moved them to volunteer their time, I would try and link them up with ways in the church and community to help.

I have found the best way to grow your faith is to focus outwardly on being Godw hands and feet in this world. Then you can see first hand how the love of God changes lives.

PS the person is neither possessed or oppressed but the parent might be a different story.

 

[PeterJens]

In the NT, the verb occurs ONLY in the passive form meaning 'to be demonized'. Here again, the orignal KJ gets it wrong and it has caused confusion and error ever since. Rather than translating demonized, for daimonizo, the term possessed has been implemented and it has given an entire different meaning to the actual biblical meaning and comprehensively, has indicated ownership to people rather than affliction...a world of difference!

It is one thing to be influenced by a demon and another to be owned by the demon and subject to its control. Even worse, to state you are possessed by the devil. THE devil. It does not happen. Influence, furthermore, can be from the outside and or within the person.

Either way, a Christian is therefore never possessed but can be demonized or influenced and that, to varying degrees. For the sake of being clear, I have stated many times that Christians cannot be possessed.

I am interested in this distinction being made here. I have not met people who have been
possessed and set free or been involved in such a ministry.

Those I have talked to have stated it is vary rare, and often related to mental illness or
other issues outside demonic influence.

Jesus who cast out legion in the pigs, the man was very much controlled by the demons
and had lost independence of action. This is the sense of possession most people relate
to and is often talked about and demonstrated.

I am unclear what the difference possession is to being demonised. It sounds like a way of
saying someone can be full of the Holy Spirit but still directly effected by a demon, in some
kind of uncontrolled fashion.

All I see in scripture is where the Holy Spirit is demons flee, and spiritually, dreams, sense of
evil have gone when I sense the presence of the Lord and dwell in His Spirit.

Paul is a classic example when followed by the possessed woman, got annoyed, cast out the
demon and then was persecuted for the lack of trade the owners of the slave girl received.

So this puzzels me, the picture you are painting here.
As I stated I do not have experience of this, so am interested to learn your perspective
on this. You certainly hold to a perspective I have not heard before.

I hope you do not feel you should ignore this, or be antagonistic, because I am interested
to learn of your perspective, and see how it fits in with scripture.

 

[prodigal]

That is what I would label a spiritual stronghold in a person's life that needs to be torn down. The best way is to show them verses about how much God loves them.

Also show that their lack of faith in themselves is really a lack of faith in God. He made them worthy of love and for a purpose. Do they believe that? Do they believe His promises?

Typically I would play music, talk to them and read Bible verses with them. If the spirit moved them to volunteer their time, I would try and link them up with ways in the church and community to help.

I have found the best way to grow your faith is to focus outwardly on being Godw hands and feet in this world. Then you can see first hand how the love of God changes lives.

PS the person is neither possessed or oppressed but the parent might be a different story.

all covered with prayer, i think your'll agree. Using discernment i think too, as too the timing. From my experience .

 

[Ariel82]

Verses to combat the lie of being "useless"

◄ Psalm 139:14 ►
New International Version
I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well.

Ephesians 2:10 ►
New International Version
For we are God's handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do

Romans 8:15 ►
New International Version
The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship. And by him we cry, "Abba, Father."

 

[Ariel82]

all covered with prayer, i think your'll agree. Using discernment i think too, as too the timing. From my experience .

Yes, we want fast results but you don't expect a broken bone to heal in an hour, why do we expect broken hearts to heal so much faster?

We all have scars from our spiritual battles, some of us are just better at hiding them.

We also need to stop poking at the bandages or picking the scabs to see if the wound is still bleeding. Just allow God to heal...its common sense to do it with a physical wound, but I guess we are all still learning how to use our spiritual eyes and ears?

We wrap bandages with love, wash the wounds with God's truth and words and just make sure the person gets enough food and rest.

 

[PeterJens]

hi i think sometimes possession and oppression get mixed up is they often appear very similar.
Take someone that maybe has been told they are uselss all their life. Their character often acts accordingly believing this to be true.
Now until they accept the truth about themselves and accept who they are in Christ, the light hasn't dispelled that part of their old character, so its still part of what makes their character which affects their ideology, which can have influence over their decisions.

So ultimately,as we accept the truth of Jesus in every area of our lifes,(is this possible in a life-time?), then maybe ,,influences in our decisions that arrive from that, continue.
But thats not demon possesion.

Always the truth will set you free.
Blessings

I 100% agree. In a lot of christian circles people say "satan" is tempting me, "satan" said
this to me. The picture is often of two angels, satan, bad, a heavenly angel, good speaking
and influencing people.

But the reality is "fleshly" desires, emotions, drive us often to our actions, though the enemy
can exploit our weaknesses, I think it is largely our own free choices that we do not like taking
responsibility for.

What did surprise me is when I did not pray or exercise authority in the Lord over a situation it
would often inexplicably go wrong. It has made me think we as children of our Father have more
authority in the spiritual realm than we realise and how much is driven behind the scenes and how
much the Lord wants us to participate and be His lights in both prayer, love and authority.

Maybe even here on cc I am sure I do not pray enough.
Demons cannot touch the gospel and its power, it is eternal light, that cannot be extinguished.
I know it may sound corny, but I write this because my heart sings to this reality.

If we focus on the enemy, as if he has value, we play up his work, as if it is anything more than
a tool of the Lord to bring glory to Him and His Son. All things do work together for good for those
who are called according to His purpose. Praise Him, forever.

 

[Ariel82]

I am interested in this distinction being made here. I have not met people who have been
possessed and set free or been involved in such a ministry.

Those I have talked to have stated it is vary rare, and often related to mental illness or
other issues outside demonic influence.

Jesus who cast out legion in the pigs, the man was very much controlled by the demons
and had lost independence of action. This is the sense of possession most people relate
to and is often talked about and demonstrated.

I am unclear what the difference possession is to being demonised. It sounds like a way of
saying someone can be full of the Holy Spirit but still directly effected by a demon, in some
kind of uncontrolled fashion.

All I see in scripture is where the Holy Spirit is demons flee, and spiritually, dreams, sense of
evil have gone when I sense the presence of the Lord and dwell in His Spirit.

Paul is a classic example when followed by the possessed woman, got annoyed, cast out the
demon and then was persecuted for the lack of trade the owners of the slave girl received.

So this puzzels me, the picture you are painting here.
As I stated I do not have experience of this, so am interested to learn your perspective
on this. You certainly hold to a perspective I have not heard before.

I hope you do not feel you should ignore this, or be antagonistic, because I am interested
to learn of your perspective, and see how it fits in with scripture.

The examples in scriptures we probably should examine to answer your question is when Jesus rebuked Satan in Peter after Peter tried to convince Jesus not to be crucified.

As for the example of the demons Legion, that would have to be looked closer into.

I believe the Bible makes a distinction between demonic influences and mental illness that we should also examine....


This might be a long conversation.

 

[Ariel82]

Ephesians: 4. 26. Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath: 27. Neither give place to the devil. -

Typed a long post and it got deleted when I went to search for this scripture lol.

 

[prodigal]

might be worth starting with the various ideas and theories of what a demon is, biblically based and even then your'll have many views.
Then we can look at the views of peoples gone by and the various influences in that i.e during pagan rome ,looking at letters of the early saints, they dont say much about demonic activity but they were already being slaughtered on a daily basic.
Many reformers referenced the synagogue of satan as still in existence in their day, as in Rome. Some saw it as the european royalty.
Some also refernced the synagogue of satan to all Jews and that has led to a lot of the anti-Semitism we see today.
So how do these systems of thinking show the various opinons on the subject.
Also we could say that some feel they gain strengths from such a possession and actually welcome it. (wizards ,black magic,etc), Wether self-deluded or true.
Are demons invited in somehow or can they enter anyone (non-christian) who they choose??

 

[PeterJens]

This might be a long conversation.

Ariel - I think we have to put mental illness to one side, because it is too difficult.
I have experience over 40 years of dealing with a schizophrenic and how it breaks
your heart, seeing someone as its victim, yet also the Lord bringing love to work.

On the subject of Peter and Jesus's rebuke. My take over many years is perspectives.
Peter was concerned for his friend, and wanted to keep him safe. Unfortunately
tugging at Jesus's love and affection was exactly what Satan was doing also.

So Jesus addressed both issues at the same time. Peter was saying words that satan
would use in this context and was 100% not appropriate. I do not therefore put this
into the demonic category, but inadvertent behaviour category. This view is something
I am happy with and makes sense in the context of relationships can often cut across
our loyalty to the Lord, and the Lord asks us to put Him first, which is hard.

What I am interested in is why you want to look more closely at demons?
We have victory, they flee from us. Is there more that I am missing?

Some who have come from witchcraft to faith may say something different,
but for me, this is not a reliable source, the opinion often of demons themselves.
Satan is the father of lies, so I am weary of sources outside scripture.

 

[Ariel82]

I am going to have to be very careful with my words to you peter, so I am going to pray some more before responding,

 

[Ariel82]

Mark: 8. 29. And he saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Peter answereth and saith unto him, Thou art the Christ. 30. And he charged them that they should tell no man of him. 31. And he began to teach them, that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders, and of the chief priests, and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again. 32. And he spake that saying openly. And Peter took him, and began to rebuke him. 33. But when he had turned about and looked on his disciples, he rebuked Peter, saying, Get thee behind me, Satan: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but the things that be of men. 34. And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. 35. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it. 36. For what shall it profit him if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? 37. Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul? 38. Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.

 

[Ariel82]

Mark: 3. 11. And unclean spirits, when they saw him, fell down before him, and cried, saying, Thou art the Son of God. 12. And he straitly charged them that they should not make him known.

 

[Ariel82]

Matthew: 16. 20. Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ. 21. From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day. 22. Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. 23. But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men. 24. Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. 25. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. 26. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul? 27. For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. 28. Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

 

[Ariel82]

I would highlight this verse:

"Get thee behind me, Satan: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but the things that be of men"

And refer back to the scriptures I made about the two different types of wisdom.

Discernment is being able to tell the difference between God's truth and the world's wisdom, between good and evil.

Hopefully this thread can help make the distinction between the two?

So what are the things of God, Jesus is referring to?

What are the things of men?