Clarification on the word possession in the New Testament

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PeterJens

PeterJens

Banned
#41
Feb 24, 2015
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#41
Ariel82 said:
I am going to have to be very careful with my words to you peter, so I am going to pray some more before responding,
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Ariel - thankyou for your consideration. I wonder if you think me saying what I am saying
is arrogant and prideful. Walking in the light is about just being honest about ones positions,
not that cannot be challenged, but just putting the viewpoint out there.

The Lords way. Moses was offered by God to start a whole new nation founded on him.
The Lord was expressing His frustration with the rebellion He faced. Moses argued that
the Lord had to continue to keep His word and promise.

The Lords way is for us to express our perspective, not because it is the only one, but
because it is where our hearts are. In the Lord there is not one way, like a perfect left
or right plan but a consensus and discussion. It is such a privilege the Lord brings us to
this table, and says friends, let us talk together. What a King, what a Lord.

The second point is I am following Jesus, so in His grace you cannot blow me off balance.
Everything works together for good for those who are called. Believe it, and let your
heart flow.
 
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prodigal

Guest
#42
#42
Peter does have a point, whereas fear is the devils tool and for some, half information, can be a very dangerous thing. So bear that in mind, and i would hope by the end of the conversation, people were informed with the victory we have in Christ.

Remember we're out of the middle ages, ;)
 
PeterJens

PeterJens

Banned
#43
Feb 24, 2015
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#43
Ariel82 said:
I would highlight this verse:
"Get thee behind me, Satan: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but the things that be of men"
And refer back to the scriptures I made about the two different types of wisdom.
Discernment is being able to tell the difference between God's truth and the world's wisdom, between good and evil.
Hopefully this thread can help make the distinction between the two?
So what are the things of God, Jesus is referring to?
What are the things of men?
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The things of men Jesus is referring to is Peters affection for Jesus as a friend.
As a friend you would not want them to give up their lives to their enemy.
That would be suicide.

The things of God, is the sacrifice for sins so that mankind might be saved.

Now this is very simple, so I wonder why you are asking this question?
Is it something you have not discerned?
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#44
#44
It's better to start simple and build on things we can agree with, then start complex and get into arguments.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#45
#45
PeterJens said:
The things of men Jesus is referring to is Peters affection for Jesus as a friend.
As a friend you would not want them to give up their lives to their enemy.
That would be suicide.

The things of God, is the sacrifice for sins so that mankind might be saved.

Now this is very simple, so I wonder why you are asking this question?
Is it something you have not discerned?
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Your understanding doesn't quite fit because it's not demonic to love a friend.

The things of men are concerns of this life such as health, wealth, power, etc.

The things of God is concerned with eternity and salvation (as you stated above)

Also if you believe God's promises of resurrection then you know death is not the end.

(sorry if this doesn't make sense, kind of distracted by kiddos lol)

The point being demonic influence caused Peter to recognize Jesus as the Messiah and try to convince Him NOT to fulfill His mission.

In same way Satan will attempt to get people to ignore or turn away from what God wants them to do with their life by throwing the wisdom of the world/men at them ...often by using friends and family who are not mature or filled with the Holy spirit to repeat these "words of wisdom" they hear whispered in their hearts.

However God tells us if the wisdom causes strife, then we need to re examine if it's from God or not.
 
PeterJens

PeterJens

Banned
#46
Feb 24, 2015
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#46
Ariel82 said:
It's better to start simple and build on things we can agree with, then start complex and get into arguments.
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It sounds like you want to develop a train of thought.
What is your chain of thought?
 
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Ariel82

Guest
#47
#47
prodigal said:
Peter does have a point, whereas fear is the devils tool and for some, half information, can be a very dangerous thing. So bear that in mind, and i would hope by the end of the conversation, people were informed with the victory we have in Christ.

Remember we're out of the middle ages, ;)
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That would be the danger in entering such conversations....too much focus on the enemy and not enough on the victory won through Christ.

Anyway, I will let Lauren clarify the difference between people being possessed by demons and being demonically influenced...or people possessing demons.

I would be good with examining various Bible verses on the topics you listed previously, but history has never been my strong point.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
#48
#48
PeterJens said:
It sounds like you want to develop a train of thought.
What is your chain of thought?
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I did but the blaring trombone blew it away. Lol will try later.
 
PeterJens

PeterJens

Banned
#49
Feb 24, 2015
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#49
Ariel82 said:
The point being demonic influence caused Peter to recognize Jesus as the Messiah and try to convince Him NOT to fulfill His mission.
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Ariel -

Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it."
Matt 16:17-18

Jesus said Peter recognised Him as the Messiah because God had revealed this to him.

Are you right or is Jesus right?
 
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Ariel82

Guest
#50
#50
prodigal said:
might be worth starting with the various ideas and theories of what a demon is, biblically based and even then your'll have many views.
Then we can look at the views of peoples gone by and the various influences in that i.e during pagan rome ,looking at letters of the early saints, they dont say much about demonic activity but they were already being slaughtered on a daily basic.
Many reformers referenced the synagogue of satan as still in existence in their day, as in Rome. Some saw it as the european royalty.
Some also refernced the synagogue of satan to all Jews and that has led to a lot of the anti-Semitism we see today.
So how do these systems of thinking show the various opinons on the subject.
Also we could say that some feel they gain strengths from such a possession and actually welcome it. (wizards ,black magic,etc), Wether self-deluded or true.
Are demons invited in somehow or can they enter anyone (non-christian) who they choose??
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1. What is a demon?
2. What do historical writers have to say?...examine from various time periods
3. Synagogue of Satan? How that lead to the holocaust?
4. New age demon acquisitions (witches, warlocks, etc)
5. Do people have to invite demons in before they can enter the body or can they enter any nonbeliever?

Wow a lot of questions...anyone want to tackle them?
 
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Ariel82

Guest
#51
#51
PeterJens said:
Ariel -

Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it."
Matt 16:17-18

Jesus said Peter recognised Him as the Messiah because God had revealed this to him.

Are you right or is Jesus right?
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Yep, example of why I shouldn't type while distracted.

But it does highlight that Peter heard both from God and from Satan.
 
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PeterJens

PeterJens

Banned
#52
Feb 24, 2015
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#52
Ariel82 said:
Yep, example of why I shouldn't type while distracted.
But it does highlight that Peter heard both from God and from Satan.
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Are you always in this halfway house being spoken to by God and satan at the
same time?

Is this how you see Peter?
 
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eph610

Guest
#53
#53
prodigal said:
Are demons invited in somehow or can they enter anyone (non-christian) who they choose??
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Remember, God let Adam & Eve decide which tree they would eat from.
I am tip toeing here, because the outright answer would cause undue derailment of a great thread. :)
 
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Ariel82

Guest
#54
#54
How do you see this earth, Peter?
 
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Ariel82

Guest
#56
#56
How does sin affect the world?
 
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Ariel82

Guest
#58
#58
PeterJens said:
Are you always in this halfway house being spoken to by God and satan at the
same time?

Is this how you see Peter?
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At that moment in time before he was indwelled with the Holy Spirit, Peter was in the middle hearing both Satan and God.


Where I am?

Halfway house? I guess you could call the earth that because we are not home yet.

There is still sin and evil in this world until Jesus comes back to destroy this Earth and Heaven and replace it with the New heaven and earth per Revelation 22.

Therefore we still need to discern between good and evil.

****So I am gonna go listen to some sermons and research some church fathers writtings on the topic. Be back later...anyone have any suggestions?***
 
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L

LaurenTM

Guest
#60
#60
Ariel82 said:
Verses to combat the lie of being "useless"

◄ Psalm 139:14 ►
New International Version
I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well.

Ephesians 2:10 ►
New International Version
For we are God's handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do

Romans 8:15 ►
New International Version
The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship. And by him we cry, "Abba, Father."
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great points about strongholds

I used to always hear that I was 'no good' or 'nothing' or 'nobody wanted me'...however, my actual homelife was not like that

my dad was adopted and those were the things he actually heard and felt

through scripture, building myself up in truth, and using prayers from scripture, and especially some of the one by Paul when he wrote some of his epistles really turned that around for me and I use the same as well...God's word does not return to Him void

those thoughts are distant memories now and easily recognized as lies, but if you don't know that, you can drag yourself down by giving in or listening. anytime we mull over ourselves and become introspective with me, myself and I, we need to go quickly and turn that into who we are in Christ and thank Him for all He has done for us

the word has a very practical effect applied against lies
 
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