Lasciviousness...

[PeterJens]

This is what your seeing and what all the contention is about.

My friend, all the people I have associated with say we are living a righteous life because we
love Jesus and because He has overcome sin and death.

But standing in this place, you cannot loose salvation for you walk in it.
But if ever a delusion came upon you and you turned to evil, and denounced all you formally
held dear, there is nothing in scripture that could help you.

For the whole of the Kingdom stands on this free confession of love and allegiance to the Lord
from which satan fell. It is why satan could fall, and the other angels, for they have free choice.
But the question is always, why would they if they knew God is the only way, the ultimate reality,
that which is impossible to oppose, unless sin got hold of them and deceived them and made rebellion
seem much greater than holiness and honour.

But this is the eternal dilemma. Sin always self justifies, and makes the sinner feel right, and love and
the Lord evil. Satan believed his beauty had value of itself, rather than a reflection of the creator and
His wonder.

I continually get rebuked for being pompous and puffing myself up, but I just reflect the obvious meaning
of Gods word and truth, and do not exalt myself except praise the work God has done in me through
Christ.

And those rebuking me claim superiority in everything, and I am a ignorant man full of hatred and
evil. So they are doing exactly what they rebuke in me. No surprise there then.

 

[posthuman]

But this is the eternal dilemma. Sin always self justifies, and makes the sinner feel right, and love and
the Lord evil. Satan believed his beauty had value of itself, rather than a reflection of the creator and
His wonder.

who will save me from this body of death . . . ?

​

​

 

[NarrowRoadDisciple]

Who are mockers? It is NOT those who say, live like you want and live like hell. Who causes division? It ain't those who come and say," Sin like hell." They are easy to spot, and not one believer is going to agree with their idea to "sin like hell."


But the mockers, the mockers, and again the mockers ,did you miss it? The MOCKERS are going to try to MOCK Christianity. And one does not MOCK Christianity with living like hell, and doing what ever one wants to do.

Please open your eyes. The mockers are going to make it look very close, I mean very close , to the truth. Only His mind is going to see it.

Specifically in this passage it speaks of mockers in the end times.
Whether it's directly in line with the coming judgment or false teaching, mockers and scoffers will be present and are present. I would argue that by simply deviating from scripture and promoting a leavened truth is indeed mocking Christianity. Departing from the 100% absolute truth of God's word and presenting it as Christianity is a mockery of Christianity.

You are very correct when it comes to false teachers who teach mostly truth and some error. It looks very close to the truth, but really is a festering corruption. This comes about when we follow doctrines of man that look good, sound good, and feel good, but ultimately do not line up 100% with what God tells us in scripture.

Please open my eyes? They are very wide open. God has revealed many things to us especially in these end times. False doctrines are pervading the professing church everywhere, just as prophecy has stated. It would do us well to stick with the entirety of scripture in context rather than believe lies and pet doctrines/traditions of man.

 

[JGIG]

wow amazing how someone posting a text In scripture seems to cause so much hatred makes one wonder.....

How Torah folk see Grace folk:






How Grace folk really are:







-JGIG

 

[LaurenTM]

How Torah folk see Grace folk:


View attachment 160348



How Grace folk really are:


View attachment 160349




-JGIG

haha

thought of another metaphor

they see grace like the outside of the tardis

but it's like the inside of the tardis

and that's an inside joke

 

[JGIG]

haha

thought of another metaphor

they see grace like the outside of the tardis

but it's like the inside of the tardis

and that's an inside joke

For those who want 'in' on the joke:

[video=youtube;9ZfyGMNHPLY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZfyGMNHPLY[/video]



-JGIG

 

[JGIG]

Originally Posted by AbigailZeke

. . .
What people don't understand is that real grace transform the heart that leads to outward fruit. NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND. ​

Would a person with a transformed heart speak against the Law of the Most High? If it is written on their hearts would that not mean they would love it?
. . .

So God wants us to love His Law?

Let's go over what the New Covenant Scriptures have to say about the Law:

• In Christ, believers are DEAD to the Law (Rom. 7:4-6)
• In Christ, believers are under Grace, not Law (Rom. 6:14, 15)
• Grace, not Law, teaches the believer how to say no to ungodliness (Tit. 2:11)
• The righteousness of God has been made manifest APART from the Law (Rom. 3:21-31)
• The power of sin is the Law (1 Cor. 15:56)
• That APART from the Law, sin is DEAD (Rom. 7:8)

Let's recap those last two points:

• The power of sin is the Law (1 Cor. 15:56)
  
• That APART from the Law, sin is DEAD (Rom. 7:8)
  

God wrote the Law given to Israel at Sinai on our hearts?

When He said that the New Covenant would NOT BE LIKE THE OLD:

32 It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they broke my covenant, (from Jer. 31)
​

So can we stop with this foolishness of preaching the Law (which is the power of sin!!!) to believers?

It is counterproductive to what I believe is your goal - righteousness and freedom from sin for the believer, yes?

Law is not the means by which righteousness comes:

21 But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it— 22 the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. 26 It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

27 Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, but by the law of faith. 28 For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law. 29 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, 30 since God is one—who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith. 31 Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law. (from Rom. 3)



​

The Law is upheld in that it points people to Christ (see Gal. 3), not that those who put their faith in Christ are subject to the Laws given to Israel at Sinai.

Based on what God says about the Law and sin, why would God subject believers to the very thing which empowers sin?!

In addition, where are we exhorted to love the Law?

We are exhorted to love one another! And we love God because He first loved us!

We are not to do this:

[video=youtube;v9wjGRabZEY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9wjGRabZEY[/video]



​

​That's IDOLATRY.

-JGIG

 

[JGIG]

Certianly none of us can follow YHWH perfectly, however that does not mean one ignores Instructions.

Isayah 42:21, "YHWH is well-pleased, for His righteousness' sake, to magnify the Law, and make it honorable"

Mattithyah 5:18-19, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected. Whosoever, therefore, will break one of the least of these Laws, and will teach men so, he will be called the least in the Kingdom of YHWH; but whosoever will do and teach them, the same will be called great in the Kingdom of YHWH."

Unless heaven and earth passes away

for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away

Revelation 21ESV 1Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. 2And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, Behold, the dwelling placea of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people,b and God himself will be with them as their God.c4He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.

Just one queston, did the events in Rev 21:1 already happen?

Question: Does the Law allow for giving it your best shot or does it require complete and perfect obedience?

Torah folk tend to get stuck on Mt. 5:17-19, and don't read the rest of Mt. 5. Christ does indeed magnify the Law, making it clear that perfection is required and that obedience to the Law requires not only physical obedience, but obedience of the mind and heart, as well, setting an already unattainable bar even HIGHER.

Those being honest with themselves realize that just as Scripture says, a righteousness apart from the Law has been made known and is through faith in Christ (see Romans 3-5).

Then, once one believes in Christ, they are dead to the Law. The Law doesn't die, the believer does - and then lives in Christ \o/!

-JGIG

 

[Cee]

Christ joins us to Abraham not Moses.

Moses gave the Law to Israel not Gentiles.
Gentiles come in under Abraham.
Gentiles have the law of their conscience.
As Gentiles we are now set free in Christ to choose Love freely.

 

[Yonah]

How Torah folk see Grace folk:


View attachment 160348



How Grace folk really are:


View attachment 160349




-JGIG

amazing I speak of the hatred shown by those who claim the love of the Messiah and all I get in response is this, sadly it only serves to prove my point.

 

[JGIG]

Originally Posted by Yonah

wow amazing how someone posting a text In scripture seems to cause so much hatred makes one wonder.....​

How Torah folk see Grace folk:


View attachment 160348



How Grace folk really are:


View attachment 160349




-JGIG

amazing I speak of the hatred shown by those who claim the love of the Messiah and all I get in response is this, sadly it only serves to prove my point.

Oh lighten up, Yohah.

It's a shame - one of the tell-tale signs of legalism is the loss of a sense of humor .

It's a very big deal when you become responsible for maintaining your own salvation! I can see how that would become so preoccupying!

-JGIG

 

[LaurenTM]

amazing I speak of the hatred shown by those who claim the love of the Messiah and all I get in response is this, sadly it only serves to prove my point.

funny

none of us on the other side of the law issue claim that you or Mike have hatred

I have not seen that one time from anyone else and I know I have not said or evidenced hatred

a really really big kick in the reality meter would do some good, but even that is not hatred

and yet here is mr love and big emotions saying we show hatred and false love

you may be speaking of hatred, but perhaps it is too close to home for you to see it clearly

it seems you are ramping up the rhetoric

 

[Yonah]

Oh lighten up, Yohah.

It's a shame - one of the tell-tale signs of legalism is the loss of a sense of humor .

It's a very big deal when you become responsible for maintaining your own salvation! I can see how that would become so preoccupying!

-JGIG

you don't know me well enough to speak of what I have or not.... I ask you, do you think this is all a joke? some sort of entertainment, listen anytime anyone has a different belief then most in here they attack and ridicule, then when called on it rather then taking responsibility for their immature and unMessiah like behavior you turn it around as if the one whom your attacking is the problem, I personally don't think any of this is funny, if I were an unbeliever and I saw the way many treat others here I wouldn't want anything to do with whatever the claim to believe.... so just keep laughing its all a big game right?

 

[posthuman]

Whoever hates disguises himself with his lips
and harbors deceit in his heart;
when he speaks graciously, believe him not,
for there are seven abominations in his heart;
though his hatred be covered with deception,
his wickedness will be exposed in the assembly.
(Proverbs 26:24-26)​

 

[LaurenTM]

wow amazing how someone posting a text In scripture seems to cause so much hatred makes one wonder.....

amazing I speak of the hatred shown by those who claim the love of the Messiah and all I get in response is this, sadly it only serves to prove my point.

you don't know me well enough to speak of what I have or not.... I ask you, do you think this is all a joke? some sort of entertainment, listen anytime anyone has a different belief then most in here they attack and ridicule, then when called on it rather then taking responsibility for their immature and unMessiah like behavior you turn it around as if the one whom your attacking is the problem, I personally don't think any of this is funny, if I were an unbeliever and I saw the way many treat others here I wouldn't want anything to do with whatever the claim to believe.... so just keep laughing its all a big game right?

here are your only contributions to this thread yonah

you have not contributed any scripture, no comments on the actual op and no reason as to why you seem to think you have the correct response over and above everyone else

when asked a question (by me), rather than simply answer as to what your thoughts on the op might be, you claim we don't know you well enough to know what you believe...

but all you have done, in this and other threads with doctrine that is not in keeping with the Bible, is condemn everyone who contradicts the op WITH scripture

you accuse other posters of hatred while saying we don't know you well enough to know what you think

but somehow, somehow through osmosis or some other extra-sensory means, you have managed to complete a perfect picture of everyone and decided we post hatred

best to leave you in your self basting stew and disregard the little jabs you insert from time to time

sorry...but you do not seem to want to communicate other than by sniping and denying

 

[ladylynn]

So God wants us to love His Law?

Let's go over what the New Covenant Scriptures have to say about the Law:

• In Christ, believers are DEAD to the Law (Rom. 7:4-6)
• In Christ, believers are under Grace, not Law (Rom. 6:14, 15)
• Grace, not Law, teaches the believer how to say no to ungodliness (Tit. 2:11)
• The righteousness of God has been made manifest APART from the Law (Rom. 3:21-31)
• The power of sin is the Law (1 Cor. 15:56)
• That APART from the Law, sin is DEAD (Rom. 7:8)

Let's recap those last two points:

• The power of sin is the Law (1 Cor. 15:56)
  
• That APART from the Law, sin is DEAD (Rom. 7:8)
  

God wrote the Law given to Israel at Sinai on our hearts?

When He said that the New Covenant would NOT BE LIKE THE OLD:

32 It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they broke my covenant, (from Jer. 31)
​

So can we stop with this foolishness of preaching the Law (which is the power of sin!!!) to believers?

It is counterproductive to what I believe is your goal - righteousness and freedom from sin for the believer, yes?

Law is not the means by which righteousness comes:

21 But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it— 22 the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. 26 It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

27 Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, but by the law of faith. 28 For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law. 29 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, 30 since God is one—who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith. 31 Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law. (from Rom. 3)



​

The Law is upheld in that it points people to Christ (see Gal. 3), not that those who put their faith in Christ are subject to the Laws given to Israel at Sinai.

Based on what God says about the Law and sin, why would God subject believers to the very thing which empowers sin?!

In addition, where are we exhorted to love the Law?

We are exhorted to love one another! And we love God because He first loved us!

We are not to do this:

[video=youtube;v9wjGRabZEY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9wjGRabZEY[/video]



​

​That's IDOLATRY.

-JGIG

Wow. I've been out of the Catholic church for so long stuff like this is soooooo weird. We did things like this sort of thing too. Kissing statues and crucifixes and medals and Irish lace etc... Interesting how the man made religious stuff is all the same. Wear outfits and uniforms with tassels or robes. Different kind of hats and hair dos (and don'ts) All kind of attempts to be spiritual and show God how devoted we are.

 

[JGIG]

Oh lighten up, Yohah.

It's a shame - one of the tell-tale signs of legalism is the loss of a sense of humor .

It's a very big deal when you become responsible for maintaining your own salvation! I can see how that would become so preoccupying!

-JGIG

you don't know me well enough to speak of what I have or not....

Only going by what you show us here, Yonah. Show me something else and I may draw different conclusions .

I ask you, do you think this is all a joke?

No, but that you characterized everything everyone's posts that disagreed with you as evil was pretty funny . . .

some sort of entertainment, listen anytime anyone has a different belief then most in here they attack and ridicule,

No one has attacked and ridiculed you, Yonah, we have disagreed with you, and poked fun at an unreasonable accusation made against us (sorry if that hurt your feelings), but no one has attacked you. As the saying goes, "I can only be responsible for what I say, I cannot be responsible for how you take it."

then when called on it rather then taking responsibility for their immature and unMessiah like behavior you turn it around as if the one whom your attacking is the problem,

Called us on what? Posting our opinions and citing contextual Scripture to back up those opinions? How exactly is that immature and 'unMessiah like'?

This is a discussion board, you know, where people discuss things. Differences in opinions may pop up from time to time. If you want to preach your point of view unopposed, a discussion forum is not the place to do it .

I personally don't think any of this is funny,

Yes, that is evident.

if I were an unbeliever and I saw the way many treat others here I wouldn't want anything to do with whatever the claim to believe.... so just keep laughing its all a big game right?

Yonah, there's a lot of joy in the Kingdom, and laughter, and good humor. I have not sacrificed truth for the sake of humor.

I'm content to let God and the reader judge between us.

-JGIG

 

[ladylynn]

you don't know me well enough to speak of what I have or not.... I ask you, do you think this is all a joke? some sort of entertainment, listen anytime anyone has a different belief then most in here they attack and ridicule, then when called on it rather then taking responsibility for their immature and unMessiah like behavior you turn it around as if the one whom your attacking is the problem, I personally don't think any of this is funny, if I were an unbeliever and I saw the way many treat others here I wouldn't want anything to do with whatever the claim to believe.... so just keep laughing its all a big game right?

Seriously., JGIG has earned the right to find humor in the difficulties of life and to encourage others to do so as well without any of us thinking she is flippant about someone else's pain or their right to be sober minded.

Many things get missed on these forums Yonah. Read JGIGs story and see for yourself she is not mean or careless about others. We do need to lighten up on each other for sure! I realize this takes time but if we are going to be here and do well on CC it's worth giving the benefit of the doubt to each other (until there is no doubt) For sure there are some wacky people here. And some meanies too!

If we have been on earth more than 50yrs I think it's logical to see the need to lighten up as much as we can. Life has enough more serious issues than us being angry at each other on a Christian forum.
A few weeks ago someone started a (((((HUGS)))))) Thread with animals doing cute things lol. Also posting funny pictures and some jokes. Even pretty purple cookies!

 

[JGIG]

Seriously., JGIG has earned the right to find humor in the difficulties of life and to encourage others to do so as well without any of us thinking she is flippant about someone else's pain or their right to be sober minded.

Many things get missed on these forums Yonah. Read JGIGs story and see for yourself she is not mean or careless about others. We do need to lighten up on each other for sure! I realize this takes time but if we are going to be here and do well on CC it's worth giving the benefit of the doubt to each other (until there is no doubt) For sure there are some wacky people here. And some meanies too!

If we have been on earth more than 50yrs I think it's logical to see the need to lighten up as much as we can. Life has enough more serious issues than us being angry at each other on a Christian forum.
A few weeks ago someone started a (((((HUGS)))))) Thread with animals doing cute things lol. Also posting funny pictures and some jokes. Even pretty purple cookies!

Aw, thanks, ladylynn ♥ .

A cheerful heart is good medicine,
but a crushed spirit dries up the bones.
(from Proverbs 17)​

-JGIG

 

[ladylynn]

Only going by what you show us here, Yonah. Show me something else and I may draw different conclusions .





No, but that you characterized everything everyone's posts that disagreed with you as evil was pretty funny . . .





No one has attacked and ridiculed you, Yonah, we have disagreed with you, and poked fun at an unreasonable accusation made against us (sorry if that hurt your feelings), but no one has attacked you. As the saying goes, "I can only be responsible for what I say, I cannot be responsible for how you take it."




Called us on what? Posting our opinions and citing contextual Scripture to back up those opinions? How exactly is that immature and 'unMessiah like'?

This is a discussion board, you know, where people discuss things. Differences in opinions may pop up from time to time. If you want to preach your point of view unopposed, a discussion forum is not the place to do it .




Yes, that is evident.





Yonah, there's a lot of joy in the Kingdom, and laughter, and good humor. I have not sacrificed truth for the sake of humor.

I'm content to let God and the reader judge between us.

-JGIG

Don't you change a thing sissy!! Your posts are uplifting and bring some balance to the universe of CC.
Maybe it's the Dr.Who influence??? We used to watch that show many years ago on PBS and yes., that curly headed guy was the best Dr.Who IMO. Did you see him on the BBCs C.S.Lewis series when he played the Marshwiggle in "The Silver Chair"??? He was EXCELLENT!!! You simply MUST see him play this part if you haven't already. (forgot his name)