Lasciviousness...

[Grace777x70]

In this context, what would qualify as lasciviousness?

For there are certain men crept in unawares,
who were before of old ordained to this condemnation,
ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness,
and denying the only Elohiym YHVH, and our Adonai, Yeshua HaMashiach.Jude 1:4 (KJV, MBM)


My brothers and sisters in Messiah, what do you think?

If you will do a study on the word "turning" the grace of God into lasciviousness - you will find that word "turning" really means "to replace" - "to take from one place to another". Grace has been "taken away"

It does not mean that people use grace as an excuse to live in lasciviousness as is sometimes incorrectly interpreted by I am sure are well-intentioned believers.

Here is a short 16 minute video that shows this clearly.

[video=youtube;5fIqZ5sPSEg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fIqZ5sPSEg[/video]

 

[miknik5]

The Family International (TFI) is a new religious movement that started in 1968 in Huntington Beach, California, USA. It was initially called Teens for Christ and later gained fame as The Children of God (COG).

Peter. Any "new" religious movement clearly nakes manifest that they "went out from HIM (THE TRUTH) clearly showing they NEVER began IN HIM

 

[LaurenTM]

I agree with this point. I would suggest very few groups are following Lasciviousness.

One does come to mind the Children of God, who pushed terrible sexual behaviour, and
felt oppressed by society, which I would say for good reason.

So these groups do exist and have existed in the past.

I met one christian who felt marriage was no longer a boundary, and serial relationships
were within Gods way of grace. But I have not heard this preached or taught by any
group.

But again this is why it is important to discuss such ideas and truly pin them down.

this is ridiculous

no one else here would believe any of those people are saved

why do you?

you bring up outrageous cults and then tell us we should discuss them

are you not aware that the Bible actually tells us NOT TO DISCUSS THESE DEEDS OF DARKNESS?

I am only responding for the benefit of those who are not familiar with your ability to suck innocents into endless mind numbing discussions that serve no purpose other than to give you what is, apparently, much needed attention

most of us here have indeed managed to pin down your posting style...no worries...

ps: nothing more to say to you

 

[miknik5]

Since there is only ONE WAY provided by GOD, men will either REMAIN IN HIM or go out from HIM

 

[posthuman]

This is just another case of slander.

It is legitimate to ask a question that Jude is asking.
.

You might be right if the OP had no post history here, particularly the history that he has. But i think Lauren is showing discernment. Knowing disciplemikes testimony here, does anyone really think this thread is a legitimate question? Or does he have an ulterior motive?

 

[KenAllan]

He, like most people who need to control, posted this to deceive others into following his ways. This is why God says we need to be as wise as serpents.

 

[PeterJens]

Peter. Any "new" religious movement clearly nakes manifest that they "went out from HIM (THE TRUTH) clearly showing they NEVER began IN HIM

The point I was making is here are a group(COG) who truly follow Lasciviousness.
I do not know quite how they started, but at first they appeared very sincere and dedicated.

It helps when taking a particular subject on looking at real examples of this in action.

 

[PeterJens]

this is ridiculous

Jude is arguing these people he is describing were equally not saved.
I notice you are trying to discredit me, even when I am making a legitimate point.

It this always the spirit in which you share?

 

[PeterJens]

are you not aware that the Bible actually tells us NOT TO DISCUSS THESE DEEDS OF DARKNESS?

If you take this statement to its extreme, the bible would ignore sin altogether because it is a
deed of darkness, but it does not.

The issue about deeds of darkness is you do not have to go into detail about peoples acts, other
than to say they are sin. But it appears you have missed this particular factor.

The night is nearly over; the day is almost here. So let us put aside the deeds of darkness and put on the armor of light.
Rom 13:12

Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them.
Eph 5:11

As the above verse says, to expose them you have to describe them to a degree, but
it sounds like you are following a brush it under the carpet morality.

 

[Gr8grace]

Now how can anyone seriously think this is a correct assessment of "Lasciviousness"

It is the lust of the flesh. Our flesh lusts after power, it lusts after our own righteousness, it lusts after being liked, it lusts after being accepted by men. It lusts after trying to be good enough for God.

Don't miss this side of lasciviousness. It is not just sinning and sexual lusts.

And the verse you posted proves my point.

"These people are grumblers and faultfinders; they follow their own evil desires; they boast about themselves and flatter others for their own advantage."
Jude 1:16

 

[PeterJens]

It is the lust of the flesh. Our flesh lusts after power, it lusts after our own righteousness, it lusts after being liked, it lusts after being accepted by men. It lusts after trying to be good enough for God.

Don't miss this side of lasciviousness. It is not just sinning and sexual lusts.

And the verse you posted proves my point.

"These people are grumblers and faultfinders; they follow their own evil desires; they boast about themselves and flatter others for their own advantage."
Jude 1:16

The problem in this argument is the desire to be accepted and loved is nature of love itself.
So you end up calling love evil because it has a need for openness and acceptance to be given
back.

The thrust of Jude's letter is to talk about a problem in the church, the people who do not
accept morality and boundaries. This is sometime called lawlessness, but it is a valid argument.
To then take desiring to follow righteousness as evil is just wrong.

Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled.
Matt 5:6

Taking this type of argument is condemning as evil this hunger and thirst for doing
the right thing.

You firmly believe people have evil desires to desire righteousness. This shows your
sorry state and do not understand the basics of Christ and the Kingdom.

 

[gb9]

The problem in this argument is the desire to be accepted and loved is nature of love itself.
So you end up calling love evil because it has a need for openness and acceptance to be given
back.

The thrust of Jude's letter is to talk about a problem in the church, the people who do not
accept morality and boundaries. This is sometime called lawlessness, but it is a valid argument.
To then take desiring to follow righteousness as evil is just wrong.

Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled.
Matt 5:6

Taking this type of argument is condemning as evil this hunger and thirst for doing
the right thing.

You firmly believe people have evil desires to desire righteousness. This shows your
sorry state and do not understand the basics of Christ and the Kingdom.

and you do not understand that telling others what they believe, and talking down to us like we do not know things, you did-credit yourself more and more each day. if you want to be taken seriously, ( and that is a big if ) , then this needs to stop.

 

[Gr8grace]

The problem in this argument is the desire to be accepted and loved is nature of love itself.
So you end up calling love evil because it has a need for openness and acceptance to be given
back.

The thrust of Jude's letter is to talk about a problem in the church, the people who do not
accept morality and boundaries. This is sometime called lawlessness, but it is a valid argument.
To then take desiring to follow righteousness as evil is just wrong.

Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled.
Matt 5:6

Taking this type of argument is condemning as evil this hunger and thirst for doing
the right thing.

You firmly believe people have evil desires to desire righteousness. This shows your
sorry state and do not understand the basics of Christ and the Kingdom.

"These people are grumblers and faultfinders; they follow their own evil desires; they boast about themselves and flatter others for their own advantage."
Jude 1:16

 

[PeterJens]

and you do not understand that telling others what they believe, and talking down to us like we do not know things, you did-credit yourself more and more each day. if you want to be taken seriously, ( and that is a big if ) , then this needs to stop.

I am not telling anyone what they believe, or talking down to you.
I have learnt after many years Keep It Simple Stupid.

It is much simpler to make a point in as simple a way as possible, so it is not
miss-understood.

And thank you for the correction, though I do not understand it as it is not
specific. The objective is to walk with Christ in truth and love, or are you talking
about something else?

 

[PeterJens]

"These people are grumblers and faultfinders; they follow their own evil desires; they boast about themselves and flatter others for their own advantage."
Jude 1:16

Do you mean by this hungering after righteousness is being a grumbler and faultfinder?

Now grumbler and faultfinders for me are people who grumble about everything good and bad,
and find fault for the sake of opposing things not actually with any good intent.

It sounds like you are doing exactly this without any purpose other than to create a bad
impression. But this has always been my point. Righteousness is good, of God, something
we should aspire to.

 

[Grace777x70]

Romans 16:17 and 1 Cor. 15:33 still applies here.

 

[PeterJens]

Romans 16:17 and 1 Cor. 15:33 still applies here.

For those unaware of this tactic, talking against righteousness is deemed as being of a
good character, and those upholding righteousness and desiring to walk in it are of a bad character.

I always find this approach staggering and blind, as if they are above such things like following Christ
and obeying His word. Makes you wonder if the word Christian should be given to them at all.

Propoganda of emotional slants is a highly developed trait of some, but oddly they deem it a good thing
rather than it is the work of the enemy to not answer a simple question, but lie and miss-lead and accuse
others of malice and hate where there is none.

But in all things I acknowledge Christ and the cross that overcomes all in love, Amen

 

[gb9]

I am not telling anyone what they believe, or talking down to you.
I have learnt after many years Keep It Simple Stupid.

It is much simpler to make a point in as simple a way as possible, so it is not
miss-understood.

And thank you for the correction, though I do not understand it as it is not
specific. The objective is to walk with Christ in truth and love, or are you talking
about something else?

in post #91, you said in last paragraph " you firmly believe people have evil desires to desire righteousness " in the first paragraph here you said " I am not telling anyone what they believe".

you sir just told a big lie, and are now completely did-credited from anything you say. stop your lying peter.

 

[PeterJens]

Grace - an excuse to stay the same or an encouragement to try again.

This is always a difficult divide. On a road to glory, can you tell the sinner
with a desire to follow but easily slips from the one who looks the same but
is resigned to never aspire.

My take on the pharisees is they determines they could never aspire but liked
the look, while others just take the label and carry on.

Jude was critizing the second group, who had actually given up.
And the one tell-tell sign of those who have given up is they attack anyone
who aspires to walk in righteousness. So beware this group, for truly stay
too long with them and you will believe righteousness is just an illusion and
all their is is compromise and emptiness.

 

[PeterJens]

in post #91, you said in last paragraph " you firmly believe people have evil desires to desire righteousness " in the first paragraph here you said " I am not telling anyone what they believe".

you sir just told a big lie, and are now completely did-credited from anything you say. stop your lying peter.

It is an interesting idea. Am I correct that your group continually talk to me
as if I am evil to say you can walk righteously? Yes.

Am I told by grace777 all the time that sharing about righteousness and walking
in victory is bad company? Yes.

So please tell me I am wrong and actually you agree this is our goal and aspiration.
If I am speaking the truth then, I am not lying. Now logic and faith are simple,
but I have not been here months with the same divides and slanders, and then
when pointed out saying I am telling you what you believe.

This is just stupidity. The point is simple, very simple and laid out by Christ himself.
The apostles equally talk about walking in righteousness.

Now when I say I am telling you what you believe, I am simply saying what the belief
is that comes to the conclusions you express.

It is like saying to a murderer they accept murder is ok. Now in the general they might
not, but in the case of the murder they did, they have no problems with it, which is why
they did it.

Now this is very hard for you to take, which I now more clearly understand, because if
you openly acknowledge it, you condemn yourself against scripture. So please give me
your version, why my answer is evil, yet you are right.