Salvation, Forgiveness, Grace, Faith, and Works

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John146

Senior Member
#141
Jan 13, 2016
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#141
Stunnedbygrace said:
He knew that two nations were in Rebbeca's womb. He foreknew whole nations before they were. And He knew the end of those nations. Yet He didn't know the individuals?

And He said to Jeremiah: I knew you before I formed you in your mothers womb. :)
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Yes, God knew the two boys in the womb and that through them would be two nations.

God knew Jeremiah before he was formed in the womb. But did God know Jeremiah before Jeremiah was conceived?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#142
#142
Stunnedbygrace said:
What reward is lost?
Yoo hoo, btw! :)
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Whatever rewards you already had stored up..

I believe God gives us gift, And rewards us for using those gifts. If we do not use them,, Our rewards we "should have" earned will be lost.

yoo hoo back sis.. Sorry I am slow. been a rough to days at work.. Ended up working 16 hours yesterday ugh!!
 
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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#143
Nov 12, 2015
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#143
John146 said:
Yes, God knew the two boys in the womb and that through them would be two nations.

God knew Jeremiah before he was formed in the womb. But did God know Jeremiah before Jeremiah was conceived?
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He knew two whole nations before they were "conceived" individuals. Does He know the whole but not it's parts? How would it be possible to know the end from the beginning without knowing every intricacy? There can not even be prophecy without foreknowledge of what will occur. He could not predestine unless He foreknew and unless He foreknew, He could not predestine. I'm not trying to argue. :)
 
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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#144
Nov 12, 2015
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#144
eternally-gratefull said:
Whatever rewards you already had stored up..

I believe God gives us gift, And rewards us for using those gifts. If we do not use them,, Our rewards we "should have" earned will be lost.

yoo hoo back sis.. Sorry I am slow. been a rough to days at work.. Ended up working 16 hours yesterday ugh!!
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Do you know what the rewards are?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#145
#145
Stunnedbygrace said:
Do you know what the rewards are?
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no.. All Paul gave us was gold silver precisous stone, wood hay straw.. I know there are crowns, and other stuff..

What are they in reality? I do not think anyone knows.. We will know when we get there :D
 
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valiant

Senior Member
#146
Mar 22, 2015
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#146
Stunnedbygrace said:
He knew two whole nations before they were "conceived" individuals. Does He know the whole but not it's parts? How would it be possible to know the end from the beginning without knowing every intricacy? There can not even be prophecy without foreknowledge of what will occur. He could not predestine unless He foreknew and unless He foreknew, He could not predestine. I'm not trying to argue. :)
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His foreknowing was by His choice. He did not prooida (know about beforehand) he proginosko (knew personally beforehand), When He foreknew (or foreordained) he did predestinate.

Psalm 139 was sung be the whole nation as applying to them
 
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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#147
Nov 12, 2015
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#147
Stunnedbygrace said:
Do you know what the rewards are?
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In the parable of the talents, two men entered His joy and were put in charge of many things.
The third man lost rewards, but still entered His joy, but was cast into outer darkness?

All received from the owners goods. One had the goods taken back.
It doesn't solve the problem to say well, then, he never really received the goods of the owner in the first place or that he has only lost some rewards.
It's one of those things that isn't as simple as theology posits. It is terrifying and it is meant to be so that we will work out our salvation with fear and trembling.

And it doesn't solve the problem to say, oh well, then, SBG is "stuck in works". She may be stuck in works, trying to earn salvation, or she may not be.
 
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valiant

Senior Member
#148
Mar 22, 2015
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#148
John146 said:
Yes, God knew the two boys in the womb and that through them would be two nations.

God knew Jeremiah before he was formed in the womb. But did God know Jeremiah before Jeremiah was conceived?
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God knows us before we are conceived Psalm 139
 
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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#149
Nov 12, 2015
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#149
valiant said:
His foreknowing was by His choice. He did not prooida (know about beforehand) he proginosko (knew personally beforehand), When He foreknew (or foreordained) he did predestinate.

Psalm 139 was sung be the whole nation as applying to them
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I'm not sure of what you're trying to say here. :)
He knows the end from the beginning because He is all-seeing.
Does He choose to be all-seeing or is He just all-seeing?
Not sure what you're trying to say...:)
 
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valiant

Senior Member
#150
Mar 22, 2015
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#150
Stunnedbygrace said:
I'm not sure of what you're trying to say here. :)
He knows the end from the beginning because He is all-seeing.
Does He choose to be all-seeing or is He just all-seeing?
Not sure what you're trying to say...:)
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proginosko doesn't just mean to know about beforehand, It means to personally know beforehand by choice.
 
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FreeNChrist

Guest
#151
#151
“God doesn't foresee the humans making their free contributions in a future, but sees them doing so in His unbounded now. And obviously to watch a man doing something is not to make him do it.”


― C.S. Lewis
 
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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#152
Nov 12, 2015
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#152
valiant said:
proginosko doesn't just mean to know about beforehand, It means to personally know beforehand by choice.
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Okay. :)
I would think it isn't a choice so much as just...an attribute?
Like...He IS all-seeing, not He has made a choice to be all-seeing.
Now if He wanted to not be all-seeing, I guess He could choose to...hide some things from Himself and not be all-seeing.
I'm not sure why He would or why I would want to ponder this...parents sometimes don't want to know what the sex of their baby is until it is born because they want to be surprised...I don't know...still not sure what you are wanting to convey, but it's okay. :)
 
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valiant

Senior Member
#153
Mar 22, 2015
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#153
Stunnedbygrace said:
Okay. :)
I would think it isn't a choice so much as just...an attribute?
Like...He IS all-seeing, not He has made a choice to be all-seeing.
Now if He wanted to not be all-seeing, I guess He could choose to...hide some things from Himself and not be all-seeing.
I'm not sure why He would or why I would want to ponder this...parents sometimes don't want to know what the sex of their baby is until it is born because they want to be surprised...I don't know...still not sure what you are wanting to convey, but it's okay. :)
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what I am pointing out is that God does not fore know things He foreknows persons,

Thus He foreknew us by His own deliberate choice and entered into a relationship with us BEFORE He predestinated us to be conformed to the image of His Son. He knew us by His own personal choice. Thus Paul speaks of being known by God as a personal thing, just as Adam 'knew' Eve,
 
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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#154
Nov 12, 2015
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#154
valiant said:
what I am pointing out is that God does not fore know things He foreknows persons,

Thus He foreknew us by His own deliberate choice and entered into a relationship with us BEFORE He predestinated us to be conformed to the image of His Son. He knew us by His own personal choice. Thus Paul speaks of being known by God as a personal thing, just as Adam 'knew' Eve,
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Hmm...okay. :)
I think He foreknows things too. :)
Like...when a volcano will erupt, or when the last day is, etc.
But it's certainly not something I would get hung up on or enter into a dispute about. :)
 
notuptome

notuptome

Senior Member
#155
May 17, 2013
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#155
God inhabits eternity. God inhabits all of eternity all the time. Eternity past, eternity present and eternity future God is never surprised nor does He ever forget. God is everywhere all the time.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
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valiant

Senior Member
#156
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
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#156
Stunnedbygrace said:
Hmm...okay. :)
I think He foreknows things too. :)
Like...when a volcano will erupt, or when the last day is, etc.
But it's certainly not something I would get hung up on or enter into a dispute about. :)
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when God said to Israel 'you ONLY I have known' He did not mean that He did not know about other nations, He meant He had known them by choosing them. They were His own. When God foreknows a man He enters into relations with that man. He is one of the elect.,

He doesn't foreknow things in that way. He knows ABOUT them.
 
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valiant

Senior Member
#157
Mar 22, 2015
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#157
notuptome said:
God inhabits eternity. God inhabits all of eternity all the time. Eternity past, eternity present and eternity future God is never surprised nor does He ever forget. God is everywhere all the time.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
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but that isn't how Paul uses foreknow (also translated foreordain) (1 pete 1.20)
 
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John146

Senior Member
#158
Jan 13, 2016
16,642
3,533
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#158
Stunnedbygrace said:
He knew two whole nations before they were "conceived" individuals. Does He know the whole but not it's parts? How would it be possible to know the end from the beginning without knowing every intricacy? There can not even be prophecy without foreknowledge of what will occur. He could not predestine unless He foreknew and unless He foreknew, He could not predestine. I'm not trying to argue. :)
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Prophecy is God declaring something and then working things out for it to occur.
 
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John146

Senior Member
#160
Jan 13, 2016
16,642
3,533
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#160
Stunnedbygrace said:
I'm not sure of what you're trying to say here. :)
He knows the end from the beginning because He is all-seeing.
Does He choose to be all-seeing or is He just all-seeing?
Not sure what you're trying to say...:)
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He knows the end from the beginning...God knows how the end will turn out even from the beginning. Don't try and read more into it than that.
 
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