WHY DID JAMES NOT WRITE ABOUT THE WORK OF CHRIST?

[Grandpa]

The audience is the twelve tribes. It is always, without exception, a reference to the whole nation of Israel. (The whole nation of Israel is scattered abroad. When? Tribulation.)

You could be right about this.

Its not the way I understand it. Paul was careful to show that Christianity is all-inclusive. There is no separation.

James makes it clear that he is a servant of the Lord Jesus Christ. So for him to separate jewish believers from gentile believers is clearly contradicting Paul and the gospel of Christ.

I never accused James of doing this. It never occurred to me. When he addresses the twelve tribes scattered abroad I assumed he meant all people who would hear the gospel and be included in Gods New Covenant in Christ, everywhere and in every time.

The book of James can be very frustrating unless you do one of two things:
1. Force it to conform to Christian doctrine through crafty reasoning and sly exposition.
2. Understand its intended audience and Jewish content for God physical kingdom people living in the tribulation.

The only time James gets frustrating for me is when legalists get ahold of it and attempt to prove their legalist "gospel". But they even can make Galatians frustrating...

Could you show with some examples how James is not Christian doctrine? I'm not trying to trick you. I really don't understand. Maybe I could help reconcile these "problems".

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Paul was blameless under the law. What about the following:

Luke 1
5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.
6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

Joshua 22:2, And said unto them, Ye have kept all that Moses the servant of the Lord commanded you, and have obeyed my voice in all that I commanded you:

1 Kings 11:34, Howbeit I will not take the whole kingdom out of his hand: but I will make him prince all the days of his life for David my servant's sake, whom I chose, because he kept my commandments and my statutes:

Oh so Paul was sinless..

So when Jesus said no one was good. He did not mean it, Because Paul was good. (even though by the way, He murdered all kinds of people, that is ok, because paul was blamless)

I am not trying to be mean, But I can only think you do not understand what real sin is.. A man once ask jesus, what must i do to inherit eternal life. The man stated he had done the law since birth,, Jesus did not tell him he was wrong, But he did show him, Sell all you have. The man was sad, why?

He broke the first command, He loved money more than God.

there is a HUGE difference between a person who is living his life in a way which pleases God as his child (abraham did this, and so did david, Even inspite of their great sins) and living a life in which they have earned the right to be called children of God..

Rom 4:
4 What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh?[SUP][a][/SUP] [SUP]2 [/SUP]For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. [SUP]3 [/SUP]For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”[SUP][b][/SUP] [SUP]4 [/SUP]Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.

This goes for all people. OT and NT, Abraham was even pre law. So this shows that even pre law people were saved the same.

You have to reconcile this You can not reconcile it by saying Paul wrote to the church, James wrote to the jews. Abraham was neither,, and at the same time, he was both.

 

[John146]

You could be right about this.

Its not the way I understand it. Paul was careful to show that Christianity is all-inclusive. There is no separation.

James makes it clear that he is a servant of the Lord Jesus Christ. So for him to separate jewish believers from gentile believers is clearly contradicting Paul and the gospel of Christ.

I never accused James of doing this. It never occurred to me. When he addresses the twelve tribes scattered abroad I assumed he meant all people who would hear the gospel and be included in Gods New Covenant in Christ, everywhere and in every time.






The only time James gets frustrating for me is when legalists get ahold of it and attempt to prove their legalist "gospel". But they even can make Galatians frustrating...

Could you show with some examples how James is not Christian doctrine? I'm not trying to trick you. I really don't understand. Maybe I could help reconcile these "problems".

check the last 20 posts

 

[garee]

Again, This is wrong, I have to chose to trust Jesus

He must do the first works giving us the hearing of His faith.Faith is a work of God that He works in us to both will and do His good pleasure. Remembering He is of one mind and always does whatsoever His soul pleases. He performs that which is appointed to us.It is He alone that can make our hearts soft.

Abraham trusted in God, As Hebrews says, Abraham trusted God in his promise, Knowing ad fully assured God could raise his son from the dead to keep Gods promise.

Faith is a work and just like a body without the spirit essence-of life is dead so would the faith of Christ without the work of Christ working in us be dead. It is the work of God by which we can believe God . No work of God working in us, no belief according to God.

When said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent..Joh 6:28

Yes that work of faith came from hearing God who dwelt in them .We are saved by His labor of love not after the creature( our own selves).

Abraham was justified by Christ’s works working in Abraham . Not of Abraham , or Abraham would have something to boast in. Its by Christ's work through the faith of God . He makes His faith perfect as he does work in the heart of man.Abraham does not make his own faith coming the imagination of His own heart that which make the work of faith perfect/complete .


Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?Was not Abraham our father justified by works (Christ's) , when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? Jam 2:17

We walk by the faith of God not by our experiences (walking by sight)

Imputed faith not of our own selves.It is not made perfect by something we could do. That would promote blasphemy.Which is taking credit for the work Christ's faith that He performs in us.

If we make it the "faith of men" towards God we blaspheme His Holy name by which all are called to salvation.

The commandment that appears to be avoided in many cases is like the first commandment; to have no gods before Him .It is we are not have the faith of (belonging to) our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons. This is any person to include Abraham , Isaac, Jacob etc

Jam 2:1 My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.

Jam 2:7 Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?

 

[John146]

Oh so Paul was sinless..

So when Jesus said no one was good. He did not mean it, Because Paul was good. (even though by the way, He murdered all kinds of people, that is ok, because paul was blamless)

Paul was blameless when it came to obeying the law. When he transgressed the law, he made the proper sacrifice to forgive him of that transgression. It was possible to be righteous under the law but it was not God's righteousness through the faith of Jesus Christ. It was their own righteousness through the works of the law.

 

[John146]

there is a HUGE difference between a person who is living his life in a way which pleases God as his child (abraham did this, and so did david, Even inspite of their great sins) and living a life in which they have earned the right to be called children of God..

Rom 4:
4 What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh?[SUP][a][/SUP] [SUP]2 [/SUP]For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. [SUP]3 [/SUP]For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”[SUP][b][/SUP] [SUP]4 [/SUP]Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.

This goes for all people. OT and NT, Abraham was even pre law. So this shows that even pre law people were saved the same.

You have to reconcile this You can not reconcile it by saying Paul wrote to the church, James wrote to the jews. Abraham was neither,, and at the same time, he was both.

What is the difference? When Abraham believed God in was in his circumcision. Abraham is used as a dual type. As a Gentile, all Abraham did was believe God and his belief was counted as righteousness. James uses Abraham under circumcision showing Abraham's righteousness was not fulfilled until after he sacrificed his son, being yet circumcised.

 

[Grandpa]

check the last 20 posts

I did. I still see the answer as no. You can't show with examples that James is not Christian doctrine.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Paul was blameless when it came to obeying the law. When he transgressed the law, he made the proper sacrifice to forgive him of that transgression. It was possible to be righteous under the law but it was not God's righteousness through the faith of Jesus Christ. It was their own righteousness through the works of the law.

Paul was blameless to people as were most if not all pharisees, They would have been considered the religious elite in their day, Not only in knowledge, but in deed. Thats why Jesus said, If our righteousness does not exceed theres, we have no hope (not even theirs gave them any hope)

however, their righteousnes would not be enough to save them, Because again, If it was, Jesus could have stayed in heaven, not come to earth, and suffer all those things, and we would still be under law. and still be able to save ourselves

Hebrews would be a good book to read

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What is the difference? When Abraham believed God in was in his circumcision. Abraham is used as a dual type. As a Gentile, all Abraham did was believe God and his belief was counted as righteousness. James uses Abraham under circumcision showing Abraham's righteousness was not fulfilled until after he sacrificed his son, being yet circumcised.

Um, Abrahams righteousness was not fulfilled until Christ died.

Him Attempting to sacrifice his son had NOTHING to do with his justification or salvation.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You could be right about this.

Its not the way I understand it. Paul was careful to show that Christianity is all-inclusive. There is no separation.

James makes it clear that he is a servant of the Lord Jesus Christ. So for him to separate jewish believers from gentile believers is clearly contradicting Paul and the gospel of Christ.

I never accused James of doing this. It never occurred to me. When he addresses the twelve tribes scattered abroad I assumed he meant all people who would hear the gospel and be included in Gods New Covenant in Christ, everywhere and in every time.

As paul wrote to differing churches, however his words are applicable to us James was written (addressed) to his fellow countrymen, however, his words apply to us also..

The only time James gets frustrating for me is when legalists get ahold of it and attempt to prove their legalist "gospel". But they even can make Galatians frustrating...

Could you show with some examples how James is not Christian doctrine? I'm not trying to trick you. I really don't understand. Maybe I could help reconcile these "problems".

I had a struggle with james for a long time, I could not get past chapter 2.. and the legalist would have me wiht my mouth open but no words.

Until I finally sat down and studied it. so I agree with you, it can get frustrating when people try to twist it as they do.

 

[Grandpa]

As paul wrote to differing churches, however his words are applicable to us James was written (addressed) to his fellow countrymen, however, his words apply to us also..



I had a struggle with james for a long time, I could not get past chapter 2.. and the legalist would have me wiht my mouth open but no words.

Until I finally sat down and studied it. so I agree with you, it can get frustrating when people try to twist it as they do.

Whenever I read the bible and I see something that looks like it contradicts something else I always​ see it as a problem with my understanding and not a problem with Gods Word.

It usually doesn't take too long in studying it and meditating upon it to finally begin to understand it. In Light of all the other scriptures.

 

[garee]

Um, Abrahams righteousness was not fulfilled until Christ died.

Him Attempting to sacrifice his son had NOTHING to do with his justification or salvation.

God is not a man as us. Christ, the anointing Holy Spirit of God is the lamb of God slain from the foundation of the world.(6 days) The eternal rest we rest in is respect to the Sabbath (the 7th day).

His flesh during the promised demonstration counted for nothing .He poured out His Spirit ,as if it was literal blood, as that not seen.

We walk by His faith not of ourselves after our own experiences..

But by Christ's work of faith that he worked in Abraham. Christ makes the faith of God perfect/complete .It is not accredited to Abraham that would be promoting blasphemy. Once we get past the commandment in verse 1 it easy to see whose faith worked in Abraham to make faith complete/perfect .

Jam 2:1 My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.

Jam 2:7 Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?

 

[John146]

Um, Abrahams righteousness was not fulfilled until Christ died.

Him Attempting to sacrifice his son had NOTHING to do with his justification or salvation.

Scripture disagrees
James 2
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? - YES
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

It was fulfilled when Abraham carried out his obedience.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Scripture disagrees
James 2
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? - YES
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

It was fulfilled when Abraham carried out his obedience.

No. Scripture does not agree with you, You are destroying context, and not dealing wiht who James was talking to in reality,

James told all people that our work is what proves that our faith was real, and not dead (mental agreement is not faith)

James showed two types of people.

1. People who claim to have saving faith, and their faith was proven by work

2. hearers of the word and not doers. People who claim to have faith, but have zero zip nada works. (there faith was dead)

Abrahm was saved, because he had a living faith, as shown in Heb, He was assured that God was able to raise his son from the dead. God declared in Gen 5 Abraham was justified, Because God knew his heart, and that his faith was real. Abraham did not have to prove to god his faith was real. God knew abraham better than abraham knew himself. That goes for all of us..

James stated a fact, No one is saved by mere belief (even demons believe yet tremble), so if your faith is dead, You better repent, and find that faith that saves.

James gave a warning.

 

[John146]

No. Scripture does not agree with you, You are destroying context, and not dealing wiht who James was talking to in reality,

James told all people that our work is what proves that our faith was real, and not dead (mental agreement is not faith)

James showed two types of people.

1. People who claim to have saving faith, and their faith was proven by work

2. hearers of the word and not doers. People who claim to have faith, but have zero zip nada works. (there faith was dead)

Abrahm was saved, because he had a living faith, as shown in Heb, He was assured that God was able to raise his son from the dead. God declared in Gen 5 Abraham was justified, Because God knew his heart, and that his faith was real. Abraham did not have to prove to god his faith was real. God knew abraham better than abraham knew himself. That goes for all of us..

James stated a fact, No one is saved by mere belief (even demons believe yet tremble), so if your faith is dead, You better repent, and find that faith that saves.

James gave a warning.

When Abraham was up on that mountain sacrificing his son, who was he justifying himself to? Other people? Nope.

12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.

He was justifying himself before God.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Whenever I read the bible and I see something that looks like it contradicts something else I always​ see it as a problem with my understanding and not a problem with Gods Word.

It usually doesn't take too long in studying it and meditating upon it to finally begin to understand it. In Light of all the other scriptures.

Yes, James 2 and Acts 2 were those passages for me,, maybe it is because I was taught wrong as a kid, or maybe I just blew it off after I was talking to someone about it, and could not answer.

it was so freeing when we interpet james and acts to agree with all scripture. And not just take it out of context.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

When Abraham was up on that mountain sacrificing his son, who was he justifying himself to? Other people? Nope.

12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.

He was justifying himself before God.

So God did not know abrahams faith was real?

Wow man, why are you humanizing God?

God did that for abraham and our benefit, not for Gods.. God knew his heart and faith was real. Thats why he declaire dhim righteious based on his faith in Gen 15.. God does not need proof.

 

[John146]

lol.. Your question is invalid, because that is NOT what James said. James is not telling you to test someone elses salvation by seeing if they have works or not..

He is talking to people who are hearers not doers. He told THEM to look inside, IF YOU claim to have FAITH yet HAVE NO WORK, can YOUR FAITH SAVE YOU.

why would we ask how a work proves someone else is saved? That is not what James is saying.. and is getting off track.

The point is ZERO WORKS, ZERO ZIP NADA.. Hearer, not doer..

Does a child of God have no works? No. So why would James be telling me to look at my faith and make sure it is real?

James never says "look within yourselves" to see if your faith is real. That's commentary stuff. James says I will show you my faith by my works. He's not talking to himself.

 

[John146]

So God did not know abrahams faith was real?

Wow man, why are you humanizing God?

God did that for abraham and our benefit, not for Gods.. God knew his heart and faith was real. Thats why he declaire dhim righteious based on his faith in Gen 15.. God does not need proof.

Please, what does Scripture say? Now I know...seeing...

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Please, what does Scripture say? Now I know...seeing...

Yeah Now I know also. God is not all knowing as he claims to be.. he needs us to prove our faith is real..