WHY DID JAMES NOT WRITE ABOUT THE WORK OF CHRIST?

[eternally-gratefull]

But it is BY GRACE that we are saved. Our faith can be dead, but Grace isn't.

It is by grace we are saved BY FAITH..

If your faith is dead, Grace is not applied.

God is not going to save a person who has not repented, and has true faith.

Acts 16:31~~ the MOMENT we believe we are saved.

The word belief, is the same word as faith, it is not a mere belief (demons believe) or mental assent, it is a full assurance.

2 Tim 2:13~~New American Standard Bible
If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.(because the moment we believe we are a part of Him,Sealed by Him, in union with him,His body)

yes, for a person who is saved, and loses faith, He is faithful (it said when we are faithless, not if they (unsaved) are faithless)

For by grace you have been saved through faith.

remove the faith, remove the grace.

That is the point James was tryign to make, If your faith is dead, can it save you? No..

 

[John146]

No John, It has never been this way, That would make the OT gospel a gospel of works, and not grace.

I would never claim they were saved like we are saved. The OT saints were "safe" from God's wrath upon death, kept in Abraham's bosom until they were led free. How did they get to Abraham's bosom? By believing in God's word, whatever God had given them. For most, it was the law. They had to obey the law. HAD to obey the law. It was not an option or they were cut off.

Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

No more of works? Sounds like to me it was once about works, but no more.

 

[John146]

Can you be saved if you claim to have faith but have no works? If you (each individual) claim you have faith, but have no work, YOUR faith is dead.

works can not prove anyone is saved, A religious person who is not saved can do works, and look like they are saved, But they are not saved at all..

Again, James message is to hearers and not doers. People Jude called licentious. People who think all they had to do is believe and they were saved thus they could live however they want.

Can a guy claim to have faith and prove it by good works and still be lost? Absolutely, everyday.

I've asked the question a hundred times on here and no one has yet to respond. Please list some good works that would prove a believer is a true believer. And please tell us how many good works will prove it and do we have to do good works continually till the day we die to prove we were saved?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I would never claim they were saved like we are saved. The OT saints were "safe" from God's wrath upon death, kept in Abraham's bosom until they were led free. How did they get to Abraham's bosom? By believing in God's word, whatever God had given them. For most, it was the law. They had to obey the law. HAD to obey the law. It was not an option or they were cut off.

Then you need to reread the old testament, Because you are doing what many say is the problem with dispensationalism, and making the OT people saved different than we are. They had to earn theirs, when we are told we can never earn ours. Yet as far as sin goes. We are all the same, We all have sinned, and fall short.

If you read Moses words when he gave the law. He gave them the requirement, they had to be perfect (obey and confirm every word written) That is the standard. Paul confirms this in Galatians..

Yes, they were in abrahams bossom. But not because they had to work for it, But because the penalty of sin was not yet paid (the blood of bulls and goats could never remove sin) what do you think the sacrificial system was given for. To prove, obedience could not be accomplished in Gods way. The priest had to continue to make atonement by sacrifice Because sin continued. Just like it does today.

Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

No more of works? Sounds like to me it was once about works, but no more.

If it was ever about works, Jesus could have stayed in heaven, because we could have saved ourselves by works..

You need to study the law my friend, the purpose of the law and the things it represented have been lost on you for some reason.

 

[John146]

Oh so those people never had one work?

Now your contradicting yourself. You said abraham had to do works to be justified. As did all OT people. now we live under a different standard?

James was written after Jesus died and was ressurected. No one was under law anymore (not that it mattered, Obedience NEVER SAVED ONE PERSON) yet here you have James telling jews that they have to work to earn salvation.

sorry, Not going to buy it.

Again, show me one licentious christian who is saved. Just one.

Not contradicting myself, Paul is talking about under the grace of the cross in 1 Corinthians 3.

I'm a dispensationalist and believe that Paul is writing specifically to the body of Christ after the resurrection up until the rapture. I believe James is writing to the nation of Israel, the twelve tribes scattered abroad because of the persecution of the Jews during the Tribulation. James is urging them to turn to their Messiah, Jesus Christ, for He is returning as King very soon. He is standing at the door ready to judge the nations. A good example for them to look at is Job. Look to Job as an example of suffering and perseverance because his ending was far better than he ever had.

From this perspective, whether you agree or not, do you see where James could be valuable to the Jew in the tribulation?

 

[HisHolly]

The works mentioned are not of the law tho. Anyone unsaved wouldn't be consistent.
Consistency, only God can judge bc it's a heart matter. One could appear to not be, bcwe look outwardly, but God seeing the heart knows how they feel when they miss it.. It's about the condition of the heart of a person.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Can a guy claim to have faith and prove it by good works and still be lost? Absolutely, everyday.

I've asked the question a hundred times on here and no one has yet to respond. Please list some good works that would prove a believer is a true believer. And please tell us how many good works will prove it and do we have to do good works continually till the day we die to prove we were saved?

lol.. Your question is invalid, because that is NOT what James said. James is not telling you to test someone elses salvation by seeing if they have works or not..

He is talking to people who are hearers not doers. He told THEM to look inside, IF YOU claim to have FAITH yet HAVE NO WORK, can YOUR FAITH SAVE YOU.

why would we ask how a work proves someone else is saved? That is not what James is saying.. and is getting off track.

The point is ZERO WORKS, ZERO ZIP NADA.. Hearer, not doer..

Does a child of God have no works? No. So why would James be telling me to look at my faith and make sure it is real?

 

[John146]

Then you need to reread the old testament, Because you are doing what many say is the problem with dispensationalism, and making the OT people saved different than we are. They had to earn theirs, when we are told we can never earn ours. Yet as far as sin goes. We are all the same, We all have sinned, and fall short.

Nope, there's only one way unto salvation and that is through the shed blood of Jesus Christ. That's why they slept with their fathers and not present with the Lord.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Not contradicting myself, Paul is talking about under the grace of the cross in 1 Corinthians 3.

I'm a dispensationalist and believe that Paul is writing specifically to the body of Christ after the resurrection up until the rapture. I believe James is writing to the nation of Israel, the twelve tribes scattered abroad because of the persecution of the Jews during the Tribulation. James is urging them to turn to their Messiah, Jesus Christ, for He is returning as King very soon. He is standing at the door ready to judge the nations. A good example for them to look at is Job. Look to Job as an example of suffering and perseverance because his ending was far better than he ever had.

From this perspective, whether you agree or not, do you see where James could be valuable to the Jew in the tribulation?

1. Thats why people hate dispensationalism, and gives people like me a bad name, You make God hold different people under different standards.
2. People are saved the same today as they always have been, BY FAITH in God
3. James is just as applicable to me, as it will be for anyone, It will not be any more applicable to the jew in the tribulation as it is for me, A jew will not be saved by the law in the tribulation period. or by works, THEY WILL BE SAVED BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH. as all men of all ages of all time have been saved since Adam first sinned. God slew the animal (penalty of sin) God skinned the animal (covering for sin) and God clothed adam.

Adam was not saved because he did good works (in fact, while God clothed Adam, Adam was blaming ever, and God for his sin)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Nope, there's only one way unto salvation and that is through the shed blood of Jesus Christ. That's why they slept with their fathers and not present with the Lord.

Abraham, David, Isaiah, Daniel etc etc is not saved because they slept with their fathers, And that is why they had to wait on abrahams bosom?

sorry, I am sure I misunderstood you, but it seems that is what you are saying?

 

[John146]

Yes, they were in abrahams bossom. But not because they had to work for it, But because the penalty of sin was not yet paid (the blood of bulls and goats could never remove sin) what do you think the sacrificial system was given for. To prove, obedience could not be accomplished in Gods way. The priest had to continue to make atonement by sacrifice Because sin continued. Just like it does today.

They obeyed the law. If not, they were cut off. They made the sacrifices in order to have their sins forgiven.

Leviticus 19
21 And he shall bring his trespass offering unto the Lord, unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, even a ram for a trespass offering.
22 And the priest shall make an atonement for him with the ram of the trespass offering before the Lord for his sin which he hath done: and the sin which he hath done shall be forgiven him.

Forgiven, yes, but not forgotten.

Exodus 34:7 Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.

They were still guilty because the blood of bulls and goats could not take away sin. It could, however, forgive a man temporarily and bring him back into right standing with God.

Romans 10
1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above

 

[John146]

1. Thats why people hate dispensationalism, and gives people like me a bad name, You make God hold different people under different standards.
2. People are saved the same today as they always have been, BY FAITH in God
3. James is just as applicable to me, as it will be for anyone, It will not be any more applicable to the jew in the tribulation as it is for me, A jew will not be saved by the law in the tribulation period. or by works, THEY WILL BE SAVED BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH. as all men of all ages of all time have been saved since Adam first sinned. God slew the animal (penalty of sin) God skinned the animal (covering for sin) and God clothed adam.

Adam was not saved because he did good works (in fact, while God clothed Adam, Adam was blaming ever, and God for his sin)

I take James literally. Do you? How does this literally apply to you?

James 4
1 From whence come wars and fightings among you? (Is he talking about within the body of Christ?)come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members?
2 Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: (Let me guess, don't take that literally)ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not.
3 Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.
4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses,(body of Christ?) know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.
5 Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy?
6 But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.
7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.
9 Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness.

Is this to the church, the body of Christ? Is this to saved believers? Please don't be like most commentaries that can't handle this and claim it's not literal but spiritual talk.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

They obeyed the law. If not, they were cut off. They made the sacrifices in order to have their sins forgiven.

Leviticus 19
21 And he shall bring his trespass offering unto the Lord, unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, even a ram for a trespass offering.
22 And the priest shall make an atonement for him with the ram of the trespass offering before the Lord for his sin which he hath done: and the sin which he hath done shall be forgiven him.

Forgiven, yes, but not forgotten.

Exodus 34:7 Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.

They were still guilty because the blood of bulls and goats could not take away sin. It could, however, forgive a man temporarily and bring him back into right standing with God.

Romans 10
1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above

"They" is a nation. Not induvidual believers.

Daniel was a prisoner in babylon, Was he saved? If you say no. then how could anyone in the OT be saved?

Daniel was cut off, because his nation did not obey.

Gal 3: [SUP]10 [/SUP]For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.”

[h=1]Deuteronomy 27:26[/h] [SUP]26 [/SUP]‘Cursed is the one who does not confirm all the words of this law by observing them.’

“And all the people shall say, ‘Amen!’

That was the standard for salvation.. That is what paul confirmed. No one met that standard, Not abraham, Not daniel, Not any of the prophets. Not anyone.

for all have sinned and fall short.

 

[John146]

Let's go through James 5:
1 Go to now, ye rich men, weep and howl for your miseries that shall come upon you.
2 Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are motheaten.
3 Your gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire. Ye have heaped treasure together for the last days.
4 Behold, the hire of the labourers who have reaped down your fields, which is of you kept back by fraud, crieth: and the cries of them which have reaped are entered into the ears of the Lord of sabaoth.
5 Ye have lived in pleasure on the earth, and been wanton; ye have nourished your hearts, as in a day of slaughter.
6 Ye have condemned and killed the just; and he doth not resist you.

Why does James condemn the rich? Is it condemning to be rich? It is during the tribulation because it would mean you sold out to the Anti-Christ and received the mark.

 

[John146]

James 5
7 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain.
8 Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.
9 Grudge not one against another, brethren, lest ye be condemned: behold, the judge standeth before the door.

Brethren, the Jews, be patient because the Lord is coming soon, literally. It is nigh. The judge, Jesus Christ, is standing before the door to judge the nations. During the church age, Jesus Christ is seated at the right hand of the Father as our intercessor. I take this literal. Most commentaries again will spiritualize all these verses.

 

[John146]

James 5
10 Take, my brethren, the prophets, who have spoken in the name of the Lord, for an example of suffering affliction, and of patience.
11 Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.

The prophets were all Jews. Look to them for patience and suffering, especially Job. Do you know Job is a perfect example of the tribulation Jew who will lose everything, but if they do not deny their Messiah, their end will be great? Did you know Job's 42 chapters are exemplified by the 42 months of the tribulation?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I take James literally. Do you? How does this literally apply to you?

James 4
1 From whence come wars and fightings among you? (Is he talking about within the body of Christ?)come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members?
2 Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: (Let me guess, don't take that literally)ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not.
3 Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.
4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses,(body of Christ?) know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.
5 Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy?
6 But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.
7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.
9 Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness.

Is this to the church, the body of Christ? Is this to saved believers? Please don't be like most commentaries that can't handle this and claim it's not literal but spiritual talk.

Well of course it is to the church, All of james is to the church. (including James 2)

Are you saying it is not? That we do not ask according to our lusts, and that is why we do not receive, that friends of the world today are not enemys of God. That we can resist the devil all we want, he will not flee.. I can go on and on and on, But I hope you see.

 

[John146]

James 5
14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

Really? Do you believe this? If elders prayer over someone with oil, not only will the sick be healed, but their sins will be forgiven? This is no might be healed, they will be healed and their sins will be forgiven.

My sins are already forgiven. I don't need the prayers of others to have my sins forgiven.

 

[John146]

James 5
17 Elias was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth by the space of three years and six months.
18 And he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain, and the earth brought forth her fruit.

I believe Elijah will be one of the two prophets, witnesses during the tribulation. He will cause a drought again and do signs and wonders to get the Jews attention to turn to their Messiah. They missed Him the first time around. Now He's coming back as King of Kings and Lord of Lords.

 

[John146]

That was the standard for salvation.. That is what paul confirmed. No one met that standard, Not abraham, Not daniel, Not any of the prophets. Not anyone.

for all have sinned and fall short.

Paul was blameless under the law. What about the following:

Luke 1
5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.
6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

Joshua 22:2, And said unto them, Ye have kept all that Moses the servant of the Lord commanded you, and have obeyed my voice in all that I commanded you:

1 Kings 11:34, Howbeit I will not take the whole kingdom out of his hand: but I will make him prince all the days of his life for David my servant's sake, whom I chose, because he kept my commandments and my statutes: