Christmas Trees Are not Pagan

[prove-all]

The truth is, the early Christians did not observe birthdays—
not even Christ’s birth. The Catholic theologian Origen (a.d. 185-232)
acknowledged that “in the Scriptures, sinners alone, not saints, celebrate
their birthday” (Catholic Encyclopedia).

The Encyclopedia Americana, 1944 edition, verifies these origins:
“It was, according to many authorities, not celebrated in the first
centuries of the Christian church, as the Christian usage in general
was to celebrate the death of remarkable persons rather than their birth

. … A feast was established in memory of this event [Christ’s birth] in the
fourth century. In the fifth century the Western Church ordered it to be
celebrated forever on the day of the old Roman feast of the birth of Sol,
as no certain knowledge of the day of Christ’s birth existed”
(emphasis added throughout).

“Christmas” celebrations preceded Christ’s birth by centuries!
The “reason for the season” was paganism and the winter solstice.
Somewhere around three centuries after Jesus’s death, church leaders
decided to preserve the celebration but affix Christ’s name to it.

“The pagan festival with its riot and merrymaking was so popular that
Christians were glad of an excuse to continue its celebration with little
change in spirit and in manner,” says the New Schaff-Herzog
Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge.

 

[maxwel]

The truth is, the early Christians did not observe birthdays—
not even Christ’s birth. The Catholic theologian Origen (a.d. 185-232)
acknowledged that “in the Scriptures, sinners alone, not saints, celebrate
their birthday” (Catholic Encyclopedia).

The Encyclopedia Americana, 1944 edition, verifies these origins:
“It was, according to many authorities, not celebrated in the first
centuries of the Christian church, as the Christian usage in general
was to celebrate the death of remarkable persons rather than their birth

. … A feast was established in memory of this event [Christ’s birth] in the
fourth century. In the fifth century the Western Church ordered it to be
celebrated forever on the day of the old Roman feast of the birth of Sol,
as no certain knowledge of the day of Christ’s birth existed”
(emphasis added throughout).

“Christmas” celebrations preceded Christ’s birth by centuries!
The “reason for the season” was paganism and the winter solstice.
Somewhere around three centuries after Jesus’s death, church leaders
decided to preserve the celebration but affix Christ’s name to it.

“The pagan festival with its riot and merrymaking was so popular that
Christians were glad of an excuse to continue its celebration with little
change in spirit and in manner,” says the New Schaff-Herzog
Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge.

Prove-all.

Please try to acknowledge and credit your sources when you copy-paste entire passages.


TheTrumpet.com
a publication of The Philadelphia Church of God
(followers of Herbert Armstrong)
Everything in your above post, even your opening paragraph which is without quotes, is taken directly from The Trumpet, a publication of the Philadelphia Church of God.
The Trumpet
The Truth About Christmas
Copyright © 2013, 2016 Philadelphia Church of God
LINK:
https://www.thetrumpet.com/literature/read/10163/the-truth-about-christmas?preview?print


When you copy-paste entire passages,
please give your sources, and proper credits.

It is considered customary, and ethical, to list your sources when copying large amounts of text.
Otherwise:
1. The actual source never receives proper credit
2. People will mistakenly think YOU wrote the copied material
3. You could be accused of plagiarism

I'm sure this was just a mistake, and you'll be more careful in the future.
Thanks,
Max

 

[prove-all]

Prove-all.

Please try to acknowledge and credit your sources when you copy-paste entire passages.

yes you are correct to say this, but his comments like
"I used to be an ignorant Armstrongite that believed these sorts of things:"

so I was using there artical as rebuttal, as they are not here to defend alagations on his thread.
by the way that post are also all direct quotes from Encyclopedias, besides the first sentence anyway.

 

[Grandpa]

Christmas Trees Are not Pagan

oh....you mean I shouldn't fall down and worship mine?
start burbling in ecstatic utterances....etc

I guess I better stop doing that too.

Do you think there is a meeting place we can go to like AA or something for this?

Christmas Tree Anonymous. We could encourage each other. Hi I'm Grandpa, its been 325 days since my last Christmas tree worship....

Or maybe just one general one for all things pagan. Should we make a list or something?

 

[oldethennew]

Maxwell,

is this a new side of you that we have missed??? we appreciate scepticisim,
but when you look back at the 'history' of this 'unrest-matter, over many months,
we are surprised!

are you now or have been a skeptic along? hub and I are just curious where you
are coming from, in the Love of Christ...

 

[dcontroversal]

That's a little far fetch to say gold and silver balls in reference to the sun and moon from Jeremiah 10

Not hardly pal..a study of history will reveal the practice that is referenced is Jeremiah 10....shakes head at how many flap without knowledge!!!

 

[oldethennew]

Not hardly pal..a study of history will reveal the practice that is referenced is Jeremiah 10....shakes head at how many flap without knowledge!!!

====================================================
can all still be surprised??? -

hubby & I still have HOPE left in our hearts for mankind, those that go their own way...
we know it's silly, BUT of course we know that this is just a showing of Jesus' will inside of us
for all others.
our prayer is that they 'choose' Jesus' way and not satans...

 

[maxwel]

Maxwell,

is this a new side of you that we have missed??? we appreciate scepticisim,
but when you look back at the 'history' of this 'unrest-matter, over many months,
we are surprised!

are you now or have been a skeptic along? hub and I are just curious where you
are coming from, in the Love of Christ...

oldethennew,

I really have not been following this thread.

Therefore, I'm unclear about exactly what you are trying to ask me in your post.

Please be more clear, so I can be sure to understand what you're asking.
If I understand what you're asking me, I'll be happy to give you a reply.

Feel free to ask me questions here, or in private... whatever you're most comfortable with.

God Bless,
Max

 

[maxwel]

yes you are correct to say this, but his comments like
"I used to be an ignorant Armstrongite that believed these sorts of things:"

so I was using there artical as rebuttal, as they are not here to defend alagations on his thread.
by the way that post are also all direct quotes from Encyclopedias, besides the first sentence anyway.

No worries.

It's just always best to post sources,
especially since the Bible Discussion Forum is biggest debate area of the forum.

: )

 

[oldethennew]

Maxwell,

is this a new side of you that we have missed??? we appreciate scepticisim,
but when you look back at the 'history' of this 'unrest-matter, over many months,
we are surprised!

are you now or have been a skeptic along? hub and I are just curious where you
are coming from, in the Love of Christ...

================================================
in response to your Pm, we are just asking, no hidden agenda, promise just a straight forth
question...that simple...only want a simple answer...

 

[maxwel]

================================================
in response to your Pm, we are just asking, no hidden agenda, promise just a straight forth
question...that simple...only want a simple answer...

In response to your response,
I really just didn't understand your question.

You're asking if I'm a skeptic, but a skeptic about what exactly?
I really don't understand the question.

Please just pretend you're talking to a 3rd grader, and ask a very very simple and clear question.
If you do that, I'll be happy to answer.

: )

 

[oldethennew]

are you truly interested or do you really care where someones' FAITH comes from...???

seems like in these latter years, it's more of what's in vogue, instead of what the scriptures say..

 

[maxwel]

Some of my friends want my opinion on Christmas trees.

Well... let me tell you a story about cows.


I once had two female friends, who both grew up on farms.
Both of these girls were very devout Christians.
One liked horses, and one liked cows.

The girl who like horses grew up on a small horse ranch.
She loved horses so much she often talked of nothing else.
Upon visiting her home, I was immediately struck by all the little figurines of horses.
They were everywhere.
She told me, longingly, they reminded her of childhood, and sweet summer days at the ranch.

The other girl, who liked cows, grew up on a dairy farm.
It wasn't a big commercial dairy, just a very small place, but it was full of cows.
Apparently it was full of cows and love.
She'd always tell me how cows were so gentle, and so sweet.
She even told me how cows had sweet breath from eating grass and clover.
I finally understood those strange verses in Longfellow's Evangeline:
Fair was she to behold, that maiden of seventeen summers.
Black were her eyes as the berry that grows on the thorn by the
wayside,
Black, yet how softly they gleamed beneath the brown shade of her
tresses!
Sweet was her breath as the breath of kine that feed in the
meadows.

My little "cow friend" also had a house full of figurines... cow figurines.
There was a little cow in every nook and cranny.
On special occasions I always bought her some kind of cow: cow pillows, or cow pot holders, or cow socks.
Cows always made her so happy.
They reminded her of the dairy farm, and all her happiest memories of growing up.

The cows were such a happy, innocent memory for her, that they made me happy too.
Such sweetness and innocence.
How could you help but smile with her?

One night, I took my little "cow friend" to an Indian restaurant.
As soon as we entered, we could tell from the pagan idols the owners were Hindu.
There was a big statue of shiva, and all around the restaurant were different types of cows.

Most of the cows were gold, but they all had different types of trappings.
There were rubies, emeralds, diamonds... every gemstone imaginable, bulging from the ornate collars and blankets, or hanging on long chains from their necks.

The sight of these idols turned my stomach; I felt physically ill.
I looked across at my little friend, to see if she was alright.

There was a little tear rolling down her cheek.
I reached across to take her hand. "What's wrong?" I said.
For a few moments she couldn't speak.
Finally she whispered, "I love my cows... but MY cows aren't my Gods"




I love my cows... but MY cows aren't my Gods.

That stuck with me for a long time.

What turns one cow into a lovely childhood memory, and another cow into an idol?
It has nothing to do with the cow.
It has EVERYTHING to do with the human heart.

Moses would never have been upset if the Israelites had forged a gold calf and used it as a decorative paper weight.
The problem was they forged a golden calf and then WORSHIPPED IT AS GOD.

It's not a matter of the cow, it's a matter of the human heart.

I'll always remember what my little friend said,
"I love my cows... but MY cows aren't my Gods."

 

[Tinkerbell725]

The christmas tree is as pagan as so many other things on the list below. So what if it's pagan, I am not worshipping it.

http://christianchat.com/miscellaneous/143882-list.html

 

[prove-all]

The problem was they forged a golden calf and then WORSHIPPED IT AS GOD.

After making this molten gold calf, Aaron proclaimed a feast “to the Eternal”
(Exodus 32:5), during which they worshipped before the idol.

they merly said this calf represented God—it pictured to them what they
supposed God looked like, and how they though he should be worshiped.

So what if it's pagan, I am not worshipping it.

Go into an Anglican church or a Roman Catholic church today and ask the priest
or official whether the images of “Christ” and of “Mary” are idols—whether or not
they are worshiping idols.

They will indignantly say, “No! We don’t worship idols. We don’t worship the images.
We don’t claim the images actually are Christ or Mary—only that they represent,
or picture to us, what Christ or Mary look like!”

Well, that is precisely the way all pagans past always worshipped idols!
But God’s wrath waxed hot at this (Exodus 32:7-10). God will not accept such worship!.


30 Be watchful that you are not ensnared into following them after they have been
destroyed before you and that you do not inquire after their gods, saying,

How did these nations serve their gods? "We should do likewise" ?

31 You shall not do so to the Lord your God, for every abominable thing which
the Lord hates they have done for their gods. For even their sons and their daughters
they have burned in the fire to their gods.

32 Whatever I command you, be watchful to do it; you shall not add to it or diminish it.

 

[prove-all]

In the seventh chapter of the book of Daniel, the 25th verse of this prophecy,
it is stated that this hierarchy shall “think to change times and laws.”
Students of prophecy recognize this “little horn” as a great religious hierarchy.

Out of the original Roman Empire, symbolized by 10 “horns” growing out of the head
of a “beast,” are pictured the 10 resurrections of the Roman Empire that have continued
since its fall to the present, and are scheduled to continue until the coming of Christ.

How Time Was Changed

This same power is mentioned again in the 17th chapter of Revelation, here pictured
as ruling over the kings and kingdoms of the Earth, persecuting the true saints.

In every possible manner, this power has changed time!
God begins the days at sunset, but “the little horn” has changed it so the world
now begins the day in the middle of the night by a man-made watch.

God begins the week with the ending of the true Sabbath, the seventh day of the week,
but the world begins the working week in the middle of the night, the second day of the week.

God begins the months with the new moons, but this “little horn” has induced the world
to begin the months according to a clumsy man-made calendar of heathen origin.

God begins the year in the early spring, when new life is budding in nature everywhere,
but ancient heathen Rome caused the world to begin the year in the middle of dead winter.

God gave His children a true rest day, designed to keep them continually in the knowledge
and true worship of the true God—a memorial of God’s creation—the seventh day of the week.

But the “little horn” has fastened upon a deluded world the observance of the days
on which the pagans worshipped the sun, the first day of the week, called Sunday.

-

this was fortold to happen


The Lord hath done that which he had devised; he hath fulfilled his word that he had
commanded in the days of old: he hath thrown down, and hath not pitied: and he hath
caused thine enemy to rejoice over thee, he hath set up the horn of thine adversaries.


in the future we will be back to doing it Gods way

[h=3]Isaiah 66:23 (KJV)[/h]

And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from
one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.​

 

[gb9]

and here we have- Hebrew roots ( garbage ) theology. in a Christmas tree thread.

 

[oldethennew]

you are talking about real people seeking = Jesus Christ, they obviously think of His as their Saviour -

'but the fruit of The Spirit is Love... one of the works of the flesh, is hatred'...

 

[oldethennew]

In the seventh chapter of the book of Daniel, the 25th verse of this prophecy,
it is stated that this hierarchy shall “think to change times and laws.”
Students of prophecy recognize this “little horn” as a great religious hierarchy.

Out of the original Roman Empire, symbolized by 10 “horns” growing out of the head
of a “beast,” are pictured the 10 resurrections of the Roman Empire that have continued
since its fall to the present, and are scheduled to continue until the coming of Christ.

How Time Was Changed

This same power is mentioned again in the 17th chapter of Revelation, here pictured
as ruling over the kings and kingdoms of the Earth, persecuting the true saints.

In every possible manner, this power has changed time!
God begins the days at sunset, but “the little horn” has changed it so the world
now begins the day in the middle of the night by a man-made watch.

God begins the week with the ending of the true Sabbath, the seventh day of the week,
but the world begins the working week in the middle of the night, the second day of the week.

God begins the months with the new moons, but this “little horn” has induced the world
to begin the months according to a clumsy man-made calendar of heathen origin.

God begins the year in the early spring, when new life is budding in nature everywhere,
but ancient heathen Rome caused the world to begin the year in the middle of dead winter.

God gave His children a true rest day, designed to keep them continually in the knowledge
and true worship of the true God—a memorial of God’s creation—the seventh day of the week.

But the “little horn” has fastened upon a deluded world the observance of the days
on which the pagans worshipped the sun, the first day of the week, called Sunday.

-

this was fortold to happen


The Lord hath done that which he had devised; he hath fulfilled his word that he had
commanded in the days of old: he hath thrown down, and hath not pitied: and he hath
caused thine enemy to rejoice over thee, he hath set up the horn of thine adversaries.


in the future we will be back to doing it Gods way

Isaiah 66:23 (KJV)

And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from
one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.​

======================================================

prove-all,

thank you so much for sharing such an in-depth Historical Survey...having a knowledge of
History and Biblical culture really gives us a lot of answers of 'who-where-when-why',
if one is interested in such...

 

[dannyboy7603]

yeah

humans are such fickle and deceptive little creatures...they don't even know their own hearts!

how about David? the Bible says that David had a heart after God...but just mention Bathsheba and everybody gets quiet

Thank you for bringing up David. I am a little confused as to why you would bring that up to defend your point of view. Let's ask ourselves some questions.

Was God pleased with David and his sins with Bathsheba (even though he had a good heart)?
Was God delighted with David's actions (because he had a good heart)?
Did God find favour in His sight with David's actions, even though it was a sin?
Was God super duper happy with David because of the whole Bathsheba/Uriah incident (because he had a good heart)?
Did God find David's actions acceptable (because of his heart)?

II Samuel 12:13 So David said to Nathan, 'I have sinned against the Lord.' And Nathan said to David, 'The Lord also have put away your sin, you shall not die."

I've heard entire sermons given about this one single verse. Popular evangelists/preachers have used this one single verse to try to tell a story about how God looks at our heart and how even though David sinned, because he had a heart after God, God was okay with it. Maybe you heard the same popular sermon, as you brought it up. But is that the whole story? Did God really find favour with David's action all because of his heart after Him?

11:27 "... But the thing that David had done displeased the Lord" Hold on, I thought that God was looking at David's heart and his sin was okay all because of his heart???

12:9 "Why have you despised the commandment of the Lord, to do evil in His sight?... Evil??? I thought it was acceptable to God.
Now therefore, the sword shall never depart from your house, because you have despised Me, and have taken the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be your wife. Read that over and over again until it sets in. "despised me". So how did God view David doing/action something contrary to what He said? He views it as though David despised God. The man who had a heart after God, and here God is saying that David's heart despises God when he did something contrary to what God said. That's how God looks at our actions when they are contrary to what He says. That's my whole point. We can say that we have a heart for God, and that God looks at our heart, but when we do something in deed that is against what God says, God views it as though we despise HIM.

:11 - Thus says the Lord: Behold I will raise up adversity against you from your own house;
and I will take your wives before your eyes and give them to your neighbor, and he shall lie with your wives in the sight of this sun.
For you did it secretly, but I will do this thing before all Israel."
:14 ..."by this deed you have given great occasion to the enemies of the Lord to blaspheme the child also who is born to you shall surely die."

David who had a heart for God, did something that God said not to do. Was David's heart good enough for his action to be acceptable to God? Absolutely NOT. Doing something that God says not to do, is nor ever has been acceptable to Him. From the very first story in the bible to the last, we have example after example of people who obeyed and disobeyed what God said and the rewards/consequences of their sowed actions. Who are we to think that somehow God has changed and now he finds doing what He says not to do acceptable to Him?

Yes, God looks at our heart from a consequence point of view, but certainly not from an acceptance of wrongdoing point of view. If we say our heart is for Him, and then we do something He tells us not to do, according to scripture God views this as though we despise Him.

Here is a little excerpt from an article I wrote a few years ago which goes to the topic at hand...

People tell me, but Christmas is good, it gets people into churches, it brings families together and it's our favourite time of year. I don't doubt that this may be true, but just because this tradition of men may do all of that for you, it doesn't mean that God is glorified by it or that it is acceptable to Him. Literally everything comes from one of the two trees, either the tree of life, or the tree of the knowledge of GOOD and evil. The later can be good, but just because something appears good on the surface doesn't mean that it is acceptable to God, as I'm sure you would agree the later tree is unacceptable to God. And perhaps this is the most misunderstood concept in Christianity today, that just because something is good, doesn't mean that it is necessarily pleasing or good to God. It's not a tree of evil, but a tree of good and evil showing that the compromising of the two, that mixture is unacceptable to God.


God's Holy Days - Established at creation by God; full of symbolism and typology all pointing to Jesus Christ and God's plan for mankind; introduced to the church by God, commanded by God to be kept forever, confirmed by God that even after Jesus returns we will be celebrating God's Holy Days (Zech 14).


Christmas and Easter - Established by pagan worshippers; full of symbolism and typology all pointing to the celebration of pagan gods and goddesses including sacrificing humans and raping virgins; introduced to the church by a man but not just any man a pagan, devil worshipping Roman Emporer in 325 AD by the name of Constantine - who made a compromising deal with the Christian leaders of the time to legalise Christianity in exchangefor removing God's Holy Days from the Christian church and replacing them with Christmas and Easter, along with all the symbolism and typologies of the pagans. A practice which God specifically called an abomination and told His people to have nothing to do with.


My question for you is simply this... which of the above options do you think GOD wants you to keep?


Today, 99.9999% of Christians see no issue in ignoring what God says and celebrating such traditions of men, rooted in pagan worship. They don't see the issue because they are not specifically worshipping the tree, the mistletoe, the pagan gods, but rather they love God and God loves them and somehow in that compromising brain the conclusion is made that God will be okay with observing such traditions. And why would a Chrstian not see any issue with it? After all Christmas is about good times. The ear tickling church leaders are not going to be challenging them anytime soon and as long as the ear tickling leaders dominate the church, traditions of men will flourish through the Christian faith. Is it possible for good fruit to come from a bad root? Jesus said it was impossible, but man today thinks and honestly believes that it is possible.


Christians say that Christmas and Easter is the best time to evangelise to the world and that's their rationale for it and therefore God must be okay with it. Again that mentaility that if it is good, then God is okay with it. But if compromising and hypocrisy is the foundation of how you introduce someone to the faith, perhaps we are going about it the wrong way.


I encourage everyone to seriously stop and consider what God thinks about us celebrating christmas. We have a choice. We can choose to follow the days that He instructed, or we can choose to follow the days that man created. But don't lie to yourself that the later is in anyway acceptable to God, because you have no proof, no scriptural basis, not even one single biblical story to support that viewpoint.

You either love God or you despise Him and according to scripture as shown above, it's not so much about one's heart, but their actions.