Christmas Trees Are not Pagan

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Dec 12, 2013
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You know....Jeremiah 10, without a doubt, is in reference to a tree that has been cut down, carried by a man, nailed upright and decked with gold and silver balls in reference to the sun and the moon....it is tied to the death of the old year and the birth of the new year and this practice was tied to the winter solstice and the worship of the sun and moon.....numerous kingdoms of antiquity practiced this in various forms and fashion....no matter how one slices and dices the bible is clear...That which is crooked CANNOT BE MADE STRAIGHT...end of story!

The questions that need to be asked are as follows...

a) Why is a tree decked with gold and silver used to represent the birth of Christ?
b) Why does Jesus and the Lord's churches get robbed in December when the birth of Christ is supposed to be celebrated?
c) Why is the birth of Christ sensationalized and commercialized? (Paul said glory in the CROSS)
d) WHAT WOULD JESUS think about his glorious birth being tied to what (Christmas) has become and even the very practice?

I will remind all....the end DOES NOT justify the means......................................

Just SAYING!
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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Finally, there were Jews and some Egyptians (those who'd intermarried with the Jews) at Mt Sinai.
No other nations were present. Still, we live in light of the New Covenant - Jesus Christ and His sacrifice.
Those were Old Covenant times.
What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
Much every way:chiefly, because that unto them

were committed [the oracles of God]. Romans 3:2


This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel
which spake to him in [the mount Sina], and with our fathers:

who received the lively oracles [ to give unto us ] Acts 7:38



For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need
that one teach you again which be the first principles of

[the oracles of God]; and are become such as have
need of milk, and not of strong meat. Hebrews 5:12



If any man speak, let him speak as [the oracles of God];
if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth:

that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ,
to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. 1 Peter 4:11
 
Jan 25, 2015
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Bit of a thin association there. So what? What's done to the tree? It's carved into an idol. We don't do that with Christmas trees.






I do see some similarities... but that's just me :)
 
Feb 1, 2014
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I do see some similarities... but that's just me :)
Hilarious..are you saying because they are kneeling that they are worshiping the tree? Do you worship your toilet seat when you're kneeling to vomit into it? It's the most practical position. What straws can we find to grasp in order to proclaim ourselves superior to other believers, or to declare them unsaved? Armstrongites certainly could find a lot of straws :)
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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"Hislop"...he couldn't have been referencing vaguely similar pagan German practices
because the ancient Germans didn't interact with Mesopotamians, nor did the pagan
Germans even practice such practices in the time of Jeremiah. Those only developed
a few hundred years later. -----"I've done the research, mate."--
what can you tell us about the Ancient City of Trier ?

On the banks of the Mosel River in western Germany, just 6 miles from the
Luxembourg border, is the ancient German city of Trier. The Romans claim
to be the founders of this ancient city. But German tradition, and even the
name of the city, suggests otherwise.


“On das Rotes Haus (the Red House) beside the Steipe, there is a text in Latin
boasting that Trier, or Treves, is older than Rome, 1,300 years older in fact.

That is when Trebeta, son of Semiramis, is said to have founded the town.”
That’s what it says in the opening paragraph of the Trier Colorphoto Guide
to the Town.

Josef K.L. Bihl writes in his German textbook, In Deutschen Landen,
“Trier was founded by Trebeta, a son of the famous Assyrian King Ninus.”
Ninus, according to Roman, Greek and Persian records, was the first ruler
who began the systematic conquest of the ancient world after the death of Nimrod.
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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The Catholic religion is the most famous Christian religion on Earth,
most people know she's corrupt, so people say they do not follow her ways.



The Catholic Church teaches that it is the one true church founded by Jesus Christ.
The Church maintains that the doctrine on faith and morals that it declares as definitive
is infallible. The Catholic Church is the largest non-government provider of education
and medical services in the world

Catholic belief holds that the Church "is the continuing presence of Jesus on earth"
and that it alone possesses the full means of salvation
-

The church, in fact, has built Western civilization”
(How the Catholic Church Built Western Civilization)
a book by Tom Woods explores the reasons why we are all,
as a civilization, deeply indebted to the Catholic Church.

It is inaccurate to imply that the Catholic Church is solely responsible for building
Western civilization. The influence of English-speaking civilization, which had a
distinct antipopish, anti-Catholic identity, is responsible as much as if not more than
the Catholic Church.

But Woods’s fundamental point is correct. Catholic leadership and teaching has had
a decisive and far-reaching influence on Western religion, politics, culture, science
and education, often in ways most people fail to recognize.

The Vatican has presided over the rise and fall of kings and governments,
the emergence of political and ideological movements, and the discovery and
colonization of new lands and peoples. The Catholic religion has influenced
every facet of Western society, from art and music to science to the
measurement of time to the annual holidays we celebrate.

Its influence over Europe is even more extensive: It has shaped Europe’s
justice systems, its educational institutions, many of its most prominent cities,
its economies and even agriculture.

When it comes to religion, most every Christian denomination—can directly
or indirectly trace its lineage back to Roman Catholicism.

The Roman Catholic Church is the most defining and influential
institution in Europe’s history—yet somehow it remains a total mystery!




-


they bible has plenty verses about this mystery woman ridding the beast.
 
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Feb 28, 2016
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Brother, I have no problems with people keeping the Sabbath. But I will rage at people if they deem those who don't keep the Sabbath as evil/not saved. Also, if they try to bludgeon others into practicing the Sabbath.

Finally, there were Jews and some Egyptians (those who'd intermarried with the Jews) at Mt Sinai. No other nations were present. Still, we live in light of the New Covenant - Jesus Christ and His sacrifice. Those were Old Covenant times.


========================================================

Tin,

EX. 12:38. says that there was a 'MIXED' multitude in the city of Ramases -

there was obviously much inter-marriages other than just Jews and Egyptians -
there are different words for different foreigners that have different status
that lived among the Isrealites...they were allowed to, depending on commitment,
either to be a 'full-fledged' member or someone with fewer priviledges, again,
according to 'commitment'...

 
B

BeyondET

Guest
You know....Jeremiah 10, without a doubt, is in reference to a tree that has been cut down, carried by a man, nailed upright and decked with gold and silver balls in reference to the sun and the moon....it is tied to the death of the old year and the birth of the new year and this practice was tied to the winter solstice and the worship of the sun and moon.....numerous kingdoms of antiquity practiced this in various forms and fashion....no matter how one slices and dices the bible is clear...That which is crooked CANNOT BE MADE STRAIGHT...end of story!

The questions that need to be asked are as follows...

a) Why is a tree decked with gold and silver used to represent the birth of Christ?
b) Why does Jesus and the Lord's churches get robbed in December when the birth of Christ is supposed to be celebrated?
c) Why is the birth of Christ sensationalized and commercialized? (Paul said glory in the CROSS)
d) WHAT WOULD JESUS think about his glorious birth being tied to what (Christmas) has become and even the very practice?

I will remind all....the end DOES NOT justify the means......................................

Just SAYING!
That's a little far fetch to say gold and silver balls in reference to the sun and moon from Jeremiah 10
 
L

LaurenTM

Guest
the unspoken sub-text in all of these Christmas is pagan threads, Easter is pagan threads, Thanksgiving is pagan threads (although this is the first year I ever saw that particular holiday in ANY forum mentioned as pagan)

anyway, as I was saying, the unspoken sub-text with regards to all of these supposed pagan rituals, is that if someone believes otherwise, then they are in sin

so, human beings who are just as susceptible to any subjective beliefs as those they wish to wag a finger at, are in reality no more objective than the next person

I have not seen where the so called pagan roots of Christmas have been exposed in this thread to anyone's satisfaction...mine included, that would satisfy an argument for never observing Christmas again

FYI, to all concerned, there are actually far more valuable and researched threads on Christmas in places other than this particular forum (no aspersions on this forum whatsoever...just on the participants who have not done their homework and believe Jeremiah 10 is the final authority on all things Christmas even though it pertains to the creation of idols and does not need to be stretched to fit one size objections by those whose conscience wishes to condemn all those who have reached different conclusions, no doubt by prayer and seeking God, or perhaps simply believing they honor God in their heart and do so without condemnation)

to state that Jeremiah is without doubt proof that a Christian should not bring a tree into the house...would, by acceptance of such a broad and all inclusive statement, succeed in freezing many people out of their homes who depend on woodstoves for their main source of heat

silly argument? no sillier than taking Jeremiah 10 and stating 'without doubt' and then proceed to argue that it applies to Christmas trees when in fact it does not

in the end, it really is up to the individual as to how they will proceed
 
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zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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Christmas Trees Are not Pagan

oh....you mean I shouldn't fall down and worship mine?
start burbling in ecstatic utterances....etc
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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why do the Germans refer to themselves as Deutsch, not German?
and that They call their beloved country Deutschland
 
U

Ultimatum77

Guest
why do the Germans refer to themselves as Deutsch, not German?
and They call their beloved country Deutschland
B.c with all the migrants flooding in.... they have lost their identity so they want to emulate the Dutch now :p Im jk I've wondered that as well since the early 1900's a lot of geography books refer to that area of europe like that and I never got an answer either for why?
 
B

BeyondET

Guest
The evergreen that doesn't loose it's green in the winter no doubt how it got its name, IMO I'm thinking that's why a evergreen is used to represent the everlasting Eternal life...
 
Feb 1, 2014
42
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what can you tell us about the Ancient City of Trier ?

On the banks of the Mosel River in western Germany, just 6 miles from the
Luxembourg border, is the ancient German city of Trier. The Romans claim
to be the founders of this ancient city. But German tradition, and even the
name of the city, suggests otherwise.


“On das Rotes Haus (the Red House) beside the Steipe, there is a text in Latin
boasting that Trier, or Treves, is older than Rome, 1,300 years older in fact.

That is when Trebeta, son of Semiramis, is said to have founded the town.”
That’s what it says in the opening paragraph of the Trier Colorphoto Guide
to the Town.

Josef K.L. Bihl writes in his German textbook, In Deutschen Landen,
“Trier was founded by Trebeta, a son of the famous Assyrian King Ninus.”
Ninus, according to Roman, Greek and Persian records, was the first ruler
who began the systematic conquest of the ancient world after the death of Nimrod.
This is hilarious. As I mentioned in a separate thread, these assertions are basically from Alexander Hislop's Two Babylons, and his reasoning ability has already been dispelled by modern scholarship. Nimrod and Semiramis didn't even live in the same century and are not related.

This is just basically undiluted Hislopite teaching that was meant to slander the Roman Catholic Church. I am not Roman Catholic, nor do I agree with their system, but I don't use juvenile accusations to assert that the Roman Catholic Church is the worship of Nimrod, Semiramis and Tammuz. Herbert Armstrong popularized this nonsense, along with Ralph Woodrow's books. Ralph recanted of the nonsense, but modern day Armstrongites continue to perpetuate it, along with some Hebrew Roots Movement people.

Armstrongites are well known for using books written by crackpots to support their doctrines. I was an Armstrongite for over a decade, and I am embarrassed to be associated with such nonsense now.

By the way here's some of Herbert Armstrong's quotes, just to show you how credible he is..he claimed on several occasions that Christ was returning within a few years..and his prophecies failed..what does that make him? I love the one about Hitler dwelling in Antarctica 10 years after his suicide :)

Yet Armstrongites still teach his nonsense :)



List of Herbert Armstrong's Failed Prophecies
The Plain Truth, February 1934
Combining the many, many other prophecies of the great tribulation...we may be absolutely certain that we are in, and for about three years have been passing trhough, this great world-wide tribulation

The Plain Truth, August 1939
But this you may know! This war (WWII) will be ended by Christ's Return! And may start within six weeks! We are just that near Christ's Coming!

The Plain Truth, March 1950
It's time this nation knew what lies in store for it during the next 5, 10, and 15 years...years destined to be far more momentous than anything we have lived thru so far! It's time for you to wake up!

The Good News, May 1954
It is now definitely proven that Adolph HItler did not die in his Berlin bunker at the close of World War II, as reported to the world. Evidence points persistently to the fact he was flown by private plane to a waiting submarine, and taken to a fantastic Shangri-la hide-out known to have been prepared by the Nazis in the wastes of Antarctica.

The Plain Truth, September 1965
These terrifying world-shaking events will take place in less than thirty years --- in your lifetime, this very last generation that is destined to live in two worlds!

The Plain Truth, February 1965
It is time we recognized that civilization has not more than 15 years to go unless a supernatural God in Heaven intervenes on earth to stop mad men from destroying all life on earth in their crazed dreams for world conquest.

The Plain Truth, February 1965
Frankly, literally dozens of prophesied events indiate that this final revival of the Roman Empire in Europe - and its bestial persecution of multitudes of Bible-believing Chrisians - will take place within the next seven to ten years of your life!

Semi-Annual letter to all subscribers, June 1980
I told you it could happen in the 1980s or 1990s Now I tell you it could (I do not yet say will) happen in a year! I would not be surprised to see it beginning to go together before the end of this year.
Fifteen years ago I thought our Work might be finished by 1972. But God seemed to delay the end of this present world by eight or ten years. But now the prophesied events indicate we are at the time of Romans 9:28: "For He will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness; because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth."

Member Letter, August 1983
As I write, a greater part of the British fleet that once "ruled the waves" of the whole world, the vast armada is arriving just off the Falkland Islands, ready for war.
Don't be surprised if the British fleet is destroyed in the next few days! Gibraltar will come next, and already is in danger!

Member letter, September 1984
We have already been a very few years into the prelude of the Great Tribulation. That is virtually upon us now.

The Good News, October/November 1985
Every sign tells us these things will happen, plunging the world into the most frantic, frenzied state of anguish ever known, almost certainly within a matter of the next several years.

What does Scripture say about false prophets?
Deuteronomy 18:20-22 20 But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in my name that I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that same prophet shall die.’ 21 And if you say in your heart, ‘How may we know the word that the Lord has not spoken?’— 22 when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the word does not come to pass or come true, that is a word that the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously. You need not be afraid of him.
 
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prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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I'd like to state that at least one individual on this thread is an Armstrongite
can you tell us how you came to that conclusion?
the last person to even mention Armstrong was a former forum user sparksman.

He would make a new thread, claim how he was a former member,
and would spread lies and slander againest his former church.

then he would pitch his recommend Michael Brown's videos as well as
the book Sabbath in Christ by Dale Ratzlaff. now he attends an Evangelical Free church,


this sounds much like you in your recent visits.. , you first used slander and deciet
to make someone else look bad. you do know this is the same way the devil operates?

If you are not Sparksman, care to proclaim this in front of God and everyone?
and if you are not him, how do you know an Armstrong had commented on this thread?

Did someone say they where? didn't John tell you over and over your error on this matter.
So go ahead and lie about this and slander others, God does know the motives in your heart.


Because he sees you when you are sleeping, and knows when you are awake.
he knows when you have been bad or good, so tellus the truth for goodness sake
 
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maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
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can you tell us how you came to that conclusion?
the last person to even mention Armstrong was a former forum user sparksman.

He would make a new thread, claim how he was a former member,
and would spread lies and slander againest his former church.


then he would pitch his recommend Michael Brown's videos as well as
the book Sabbath in Christ by Dale Ratzlaff. now he attends an Evangelical Free church,


this sounds much like you in your recent visits.. , you first used slander and deciet
to make someone else look bad. you do know this is the same way the devil operates?

If you are not Sparksman, care to proclaim this in front of God and everyone?
and if you are not him, how do know an Armstrong had commented on this thread?

Did someone say they where? didn't John tell you over and over your error on this matter.
So go ahead and lie about this and slander others, God does know the motives in your heart.


Because he sees you when you are sleeping, and knows when you are awake.
he knows when you have been bad or good
Prove-all,

1. How do you know everything sparksman said against Armstrongism (Worldwide Church of God) was lies and slander?

2. Why are you so concerned about it?




 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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Prove-all,

1. How do you know everything sparksman said against Armstrongism (Worldwide Church of God) was lies and slander?

2. Why are you so concerned about it?
the question should be why is he so concernerd about it.


plenty times i proved Sparksman was only slandering and spreading lies.
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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What does Scripture say about prophets?


What if it did come to pass? just not as soon as expected



-Nov. 16,2016 Superpower Europe


Spurred by the Brexit vote and the election of Donald Trump as United States president,
European leaders are racing to create a united European army.

German-Foreign-Policy.com delivered an e-mail alert this week titled “Superpower Europe.”
www.german-foreign-policy.com


Herbert W. Armstrong sent that warning out eight decades ago!
https://www.thetrumpet.com/literatu...ber-decades-of-accuracy-in-global-forecasting

to hear the other side of the story, read artical for yourself to decide
 
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