"replacement theology" - what is it?

[eternally-gratefull]

Dispensationalism is an evangelical, futurist, Biblical interpretation that understands God to have related to human beings in different ways under different Biblical covenants in a series of "dispensations," or periods in history.

As a system, dispensationalism is expounded in the writings of John Nelson Darby (1800–82) and the Plymouth Brethren movement,[1]:10 and propagated through works such as Cyrus Scofield's Scofield Reference Bible. The theology of dispensationalism consists of a distinctive eschatological end times perspective, as all dispensationalists hold to premillennialism and most hold to a pretribulation rapture. Dispensationalists believe that the nation of Israel is distinct from the Christian Church,[2]:322 and that God has yet to fulfill his promises to national Israel. These promises include the land promises, which in the future world to come result in a millennial kingdom and Third Temple where Christ, upon his return, will rule the world from Jerusalem[3] for a thousand years....

....Dispensationalists believe that God has 2 covenants. One with the Church and the other with Israel. That these two covenants are currently in operation and they are both honored by God presently. They believe that the Church is the people of God and that the Jews are the people of God. That God works with these two entities in two separate ways. This is where the problem occurs....

Christianity: The Heresy of Dispensationalism

God did relate with people differently, Ayone who reads the OT knows God did not relate to men on earth pre-fall the same as post fall, pre- flood the same as postflood, pre law the same as post law, pre christ the same as post christ.

however this has nothing to do with how anyone in any time was ever saved, it was always grace through faith.

which is where people go all crazy, is there misunderstanding of what it actually does.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Joshua 23:14
“ I am now going the way of all the earth, and you know with all your heart and all your soul that none of the good promises the LORD your God made to you has failed. Everything was fulfilled for you; not one promise has failed.

let's see....is God actually saying:

1) none of the good promises the LORD your God made to you has failed.
2) Everything was fulfilled for you;
3) not one promise has failed.??

is it heresy to disagree with God?

God told isreal he gave them the land forever. He told them they would have to wait 400 years for the sin of the people was not complete, In johsua, He shows he fulfilled his promise.

However, He told them it was theirs forever, has forever ended?

That promise never even had a thing to do with 1 person getting saved? like your trying to make it out to be)

Face it, If Gods promise to physical Isreal is no longer in effect, No ones eternal life is secure, And it will never be at any point at any time in the future, God can say, I changed my mind, No longer will you reside in heaven with me, Fordver does not mean forever.

Your belief is dangerous.. It claims God does not keep his promises. Eternal does not now or ever mean eternal if you are right, PERIOD.

Keep it up You did this stuff before. and you know where it ended up. WHy do you think your continued slander against others will be allowed to continue?

 

[Desertsrose]

Land promise(s) ?



Joshua 21:43-45

43 So the Lord gave Israel all the land He had sworn to give their ancestors, and they took possession of it and settled there. 44 The Lord gave them rest on every side, just as He had sworn to their ancestors. Not one of their enemies withstood them; the Lord gave all their enemies into their hands. 45 Not one of all the Lord’s good promises to Israel failed; every one was fulfilled.

Fulfilled so far - and then God added on more promises through the prophets that aren't fullfilled yet.

 

[kaylagrl]

Zech 14:1-9


[FONT=&quot]1 Behold, a aday is coming for the Lord when bthe spoil taken from you will be divided among you.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 2 For I will agather all the nations against Jerusalem to battle, and the city will be captured, the bhouses plundered, the women ravished and half of the city exiled, but the rest of the people will not be cut off from the city.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 3 Then the Lord will go forth and afight against those nations, as 1when He fights on a day of battle.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 4 In that day His feet will astand on the Mount of Olives, which is in front of Jerusalem on the east; and the Mount of Olives will be bsplit in its middle from east to west by a very large valley, so that half of the mountain will move toward the north and the other half toward the south.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 5 You will flee by the valley of My mountains, for the valley of the mountains will reach to Azel; yes, you will flee just as you fled before the aearthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. bThen the Lord, my God, will come, and all the holy ones with 1Him![/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 6 In that day there will be ano light; the 1luminaries will dwindle.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 7 For it will be aa unique day which is bknown to the Lord, neither day nor night, but it will come about that at cevening time there will be light.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 8 And in that day aliving waters will flow out of Jerusalem, half of them toward the eastern sea and the other half toward the western sea; it will be in summer as well as in winter.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]God Will Be King over All[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]9 And the Lord will be aking over all the earth; in that day the Lord will be the only bone, and His name the only one.


If you can twist Scripture to say this has already happened then you can twist Romans 11 and the rest of the Bible to say the blessings of Israel now belongs to the church.[/FONT]

 

[Desertsrose]

I will ask you Zionist the question one more time... when did those people in Israel today repent and seek God's face?

Please return your seats back to the full upright position, stow away your pre-conceived ideas, and place all anti-Israel rhetoric under the seat in front of you. The enemies devices must also be turned off at this time. Flight attendants will be walking through the cabin to pick up any remaining unbiblical items that have no value to the cause of Christ - Who extends His grace and mercy to His chosen nation. We'll be landing soon.

Soon KJV, soon.

 

[kaylagrl]

Please return your seats back to the full upright position, stow away your pre-conceived ideas, and place all anti-Israel rhetoric under the seat in front of you. The enemies devices must also be turned off at this time. Flight attendants will be walking through the cabin to pick up any remaining unbiblical items that have no value to the cause of Christ - Who extends His grace and mercy to His chosen nation. We'll be landing soon.

Soon KJV, soon.

Have to spread the rep around,wish I could give it twice.

 

[Desertsrose]

Have to spread the rep around,wish I could give it twice.

Aww thanks Kayla!

 

[plainguy]

God's promises are clear and unambiguous. There are many OT scriptures outlining the required conditions (obedience) for Israel the nation to have remained in the land promised them as an everlasting possession. They didn't meet them ... and still don't today. The promises and warnings of the Law and the Prophets have always taught repentance first ... followed by restoration. Dispensationalism looks for restoration first (nation of Israel) ... followed then by repentance. Why ? Because they fail to understand that God's land promise concerning the nation of Israel was fulfilled long ago. One last question regarding the promise made in Genesis 17. If it were an "everlasting possession" (without conditions), why weren't the Jews inhabiting it for almost two-thousand years ? Why isn't this two-thousand year gap inclusive in the term "everlasting" ? God's promise was made long before this time.

 

[Desertsrose]

Off topic, but where do I learn about reps and when I'm able to give them?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Off topic, but where do I learn about reps and when I'm able to give them?

look at bottom left of post. You will see a "star" icon and a "triangle" Icon. The star is for giving a rep to a person. The triangle is to report a post for something to the mods..

You can rep a person once, After that you have to rep other people before you can rep that person again. I too wanted to give you a few reps today. You have had some nice posts.. Thank you.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

God's promises are clear and unambiguous. There are many OT scriptures outlining the required conditions (obedience) for Israel the nation to have remained in the land promised them as an everlasting possession. They didn't meet them ... and still don't today. The promises and warnings of the Law and the Prophets have always taught repentance first ... followed by restoration. Dispensationalism looks for restoration first (nation of Israel) ... followed then by repentance. Why ? Because they fail to understand that God's land promise concerning the nation of Israel was fulfilled long ago. One last question regarding the promise made in Genesis 17. If it were an "everlasting possession" (without conditions), why weren't the Jews inhabiting it for almost two-thousand years ? Why isn't this two-thousand year gap inclusive in the term "everlasting" ? God's promise was made long before this time.

Yes you are right, God gave them conditions to remain in the land "lev 26 namely"

But he never gave conditions for the land being there's. (He told Abraham, I give to you and your descendants this land as an eternal possession, no conditions were given) And those conditions had nothing to do with whether an individual was saved or not. Only as a nation, to remain in the land in peace. as God promised.

God also gave conditions, for if they were punished and removed from the land due to disobedience, How to be returned to the land (repent) not as an individual, but as a nation. Daniel tried to repent for the nation in Daniel 9 God gave him his answer.

The point is.. For Israel to be in the land, they have to do certain things, But the land is still there's. Eternal means eternal..

However, they have to repent in order to get back to the condition showed in the first part of lev 26. (no, today does not fit, because they have not repented, nor are the conditions of the first part of 26 met by either God or Israel)

so. why is the 2000 year gap not inclusive? It is, Israel is in sin, This th epunishment of lev 26 still stands.

WHat Did God say would happen to them in sin?


The question is, Has the church replaced them. (if so, why are they not in Isreal living in peace) Or, will God remember his covenant to Israel IF THEY REPENT (the key word being if) ie, does Gods promise still stand, or is God done. (ie eternal does not mean eternal)

 

[jaybird88]

Matthew 21:43
“Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.”

so taken from the unbelieving descendants of Jacob; given to the believers (now Christians); with the calling of gentiles immediately following.

i dont think IMO the kingdom is taken from one nation and given to another (passed from Jew to Christian) when Jesus was teaching there were crowds of Jews and they were believers, it was always the leadership that fought against Jesus.
years later when Christians started burning other Christians over doctrines, again it was the leadership that made these decisions.
the keys to the kingdom IMO are given to those that follow what Jesus taught not the name you apply to your group.

 

[zone]

Yes you are right, God gave them conditions to remain in the land "lev 26 namely"

But he never gave conditions for the land being there's.

Jeremiah 2:7 I brought you into a fertile land to eat its fruit ...
... But you came and defiled my land and made my inheritance detestable. ... But when you
came in, you defiled my land and made my heritage an abomination

whose land is it?

 

[trofimus]

when Jesus was teaching there were crowds of Jews and they were believers, it was always the leadership that fought against Jesus.

I dont think so.

Crowds followed Him, because He gave them physical food and because He healed them.

They did not actually believe in Him. When He was on the cross, only 2 people were there. Where were the crowds?

When they saw He did not bring them the physical kingdom, they left.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Jeremiah 2:7 I brought you into a fertile land to eat its fruit ...
... But you came and defiled my land and made my inheritance detestable. ... But when you
came in, you defiled my land and made my heritage an abomination

whose land is it?

you going to continue to ignore Gen 17? Tisk Tisk. and explain how forever does not mean forever?

It is Gods, He gave it to them, Which means he gets to control when they live in it and when they do not.

Have I ever argued against this? (oh that's right, You still think I think God will send saved people (All Isreal) to hell because they are dead)

Are you ever going to show me like I asked where you got that silly notion? or keep ignoring it?

My salvation belongs to God also. Does that mean the LIFE ETERNAL he gave me will ever end?

 

[zone]

Yes you are right, God gave them conditions to remain in the land "lev 26 namely"

But he never gave conditions for the land being there's. (He told Abraham, I give to you and your descendants this land as an eternal possession, no conditions were given) And those conditions had nothing to do with whether an individual was saved or not. Only as a nation, to remain in the land in peace. as God promised.

Hebrews 11
8By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to a place that he was to receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. 9By faith he went to live in the land of promise, as in a foreign land, living in tents with Isaac and Jacob, heirs with him of the same promise. 10For he was looking forward to the city that has foundations, whose designer and builder is God. 11By faith Sarah herself received power to conceive, even when she was past the age, since she considered him faithful who had promised. 12Therefore from one man, and him as good as dead, were born descendants as many as the stars of heaven and as many as the innumerable grains of sand by the seashore.

13These all died in faith, not having received the things promised, but having seen them and greeted them from afar, and having acknowledged that they were strangers and exiles on the earth. 14For people who speak thus make it clear that they are seeking a homeland. 15If they had been thinking of that land from which they had gone out, they would have had opportunity to return. 16But as it is, they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared for them a city.


"These all died in faith, not having received the things promised...." < < did Abraham dwell in the land in peace, having received the promise?

or not. what does it say?

should anyone be promoting the Plan B junk theory - being directly or indirectly responsible for millions of deaths over that land?

does it sound like Abraham was thinking of a better country where endless violence and 10B$ per year and 500 nukes are the miraculous signs that everybody needs to check for?

 

[trofimus]

you going to continue to ignore Gen 17? Tisk Tisk. and explain how forever does not mean forever?

"And I will give to thee and to thy seed after thee the land wherein thou sojournest, even all the land of Chanaan for an everlasting possession"
Gen 17:8

"The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. Scripture does not say "and to seeds," meaning many people, but "and to your seed," meaning one person, who is Christ."

Gal 3:16

BTW, Arab nations are the descendants of Abraham, too.

 

[jaybird88]

I dont think so.

Crowds followed Him, because He gave them physical food and because He healed them.

They did not actually believe in Him. When He was on the cross, only 2 people were there. Where were the crowds?

When they saw He did not bring them the physical kingdom, they left.

John 11 45-46
[SUP]45 [/SUP]Many of the Jews therefore, who had come with Mary and had seen what he did, believed in him, [SUP]46 [/SUP]but some of them went to the Pharisees and told them what Jesus had done.

what about these "many" of Jews?

 

[zone]

Yes you are right, God gave them conditions to remain in the land "lev 26 namely"

But he never gave conditions for the land being there's. (He told Abraham, I give to you and your descendants this land as an eternal possession, no conditions were given) And those conditions had nothing to do with whether an individual was saved or not. Only as a nation, to remain in the land in peace. as God promised.

God also gave conditions, for if they were punished and removed from the land due to disobedience, How to be returned to the land (repent) not as an individual, but as a nation. Daniel tried to repent for the nation in Daniel 9 God gave him his answer.

yes, he did. Daniel wouldn't be in the land to see it (go your way Daniel - wait for the resurrection), but he was given one of the most precise and amazing prophecies in scripture:

the years of captivity were coming to an end.

the call would go out to rebuild the city and the sanctuary....they went back in stages....there were troublous times during the rebuilding.

a remnant returned along with the masses.

JESUS IS BORN and lives in the land, calls for repentance.

Messiah is cut off after being betrayed, their fate is sealed.

40 years of preaching the gospel.

Titus and the romans surround Jerusalem and not one stone was left upon another.

remaining promises? forgiveness of sins won by Christ, for all who believe.
those who are not children of the promise (not Christ's) will go into the lake of fire; those who are children of the promise (Christ's) go into eternity.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

"And I will give to thee and to thy seed after thee the land wherein thou sojournest, even all the land of Chanaan for an everlasting possession"
Gen 17:8

"The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. Scripture does not say "and to seeds," meaning many people, but "and to your seed," meaning one person, who is Christ."

Gal 3:16

BTW, Arab nations are the descendants of Abraham, too.

Did God give Ishmael the land of Cannan?

did God give Arabs the land of cannan?

Or did God give Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and all THEIR descendents the land of Jacob. He even re-iterated or remade this promise to both of these sons..

so...

1. Why do you ignore forever?
2. WHy do you ignore who the land was given too? Because it was not to ALL his descendents, it was through a certain seed. Proven by the fact God said he gave it to Israel so many times later..

Gal is not talking about land, Galations is talking about eternal life. The spiritual seed. In you shall all th enations be blessed.

Two seperate promises. Why do you try to combine them?