"replacement theology" - what is it?
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Anti-semitism or real hatred is always present in social groups.
To not be for the state of Israel or not see it as the fulfillment of prophecy is actually a
sensible position to take. A lot of modern Jews do not support Israel but think it just
inflames the hatred present in their enemies.
Any state stands against its history of violence and anti-humanitarian behaviour.
A lot of christians have been driven out of Palistine by both muslims and jews.
This sectarianism is poison, and fuels so much insanity. In a world that claims to
be less religious than ever this is a strange situation.
The people of God are Isreal in the spiritual sense, grafted into the vine.
Paul believed Israel ie the jews would also be saved in the end.
It is no surprise to me that those who say believers are lying about their faith,
are full of hatred and malice would also be accused of hating jews. But this is
spoken by people who see enemies everywhere and do not know how to really love
and accept people as they are.
To not be for the state of Israel or not see it as the fulfillment of prophecy is actually a
sensible position to take. A lot of modern Jews do not support Israel but think it just
inflames the hatred present in their enemies.
Any state stands against its history of violence and anti-humanitarian behaviour.
A lot of christians have been driven out of Palistine by both muslims and jews.
This sectarianism is poison, and fuels so much insanity. In a world that claims to
be less religious than ever this is a strange situation.
The people of God are Isreal in the spiritual sense, grafted into the vine.
Paul believed Israel ie the jews would also be saved in the end.
It is no surprise to me that those who say believers are lying about their faith,
are full of hatred and malice would also be accused of hating jews. But this is
spoken by people who see enemies everywhere and do not know how to really love
and accept people as they are.
What I find odd about talking about who physically put Jesus to death, it was about 20 men.
Now in time the Jewish authorities were destroyed and the temple defiled.
What Judiaism became was very different to the faith at the time of Jesus.
As in one sense we are a jewish sect, so if we are to blame the jews, we are condemning
also our brothers and sisters.
I wonder why people end up in these considerations. We are called to love from the
heart, and there is neither jew or gentile, but all are one before the Father.
Now in time the Jewish authorities were destroyed and the temple defiled.
What Judiaism became was very different to the faith at the time of Jesus.
As in one sense we are a jewish sect, so if we are to blame the jews, we are condemning
also our brothers and sisters.
I wonder why people end up in these considerations. We are called to love from the
heart, and there is neither jew or gentile, but all are one before the Father.
Except it isn't for Israel.
And church? I would accept that the believer is now the true throne of God.
I grew up in a church called the Church of God, Anderson Ind. based. They believe Revelations is symbolical of Jesus and I do believe this is correct. But, I can see too that they are in error when it comes to the OT prophecies concerning Israel.
And church? I would accept that the believer is now the true throne of God.
I grew up in a church called the Church of God, Anderson Ind. based. They believe Revelations is symbolical of Jesus and I do believe this is correct. But, I can see too that they are in error when it comes to the OT prophecies concerning Israel.
Gen 28:10 And Jacob went out from Beersheba, and went toward Haran.
Gen 28:11 And he lighted upon a certain place, and tarried there all night, because the sun was set; and he took of the stones of that place, and put them for his pillows, and lay down in that place to sleep.
Gen 28:12 And he dreamed, and behold a ladder set up on the earth, and the top of it reached to heaven: and behold the angels of God ascending and descending on it.
Gen 28:13 And, behold, the LORD stood above it, and said, I am the LORD God of Abraham thy father, and the God of Isaac: the land whereon thou liest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed;
Gen 28:14 And thy seed shall be as the dust of the earth, and thou shalt spread abroad to the west, and to the east, and to the north, and to the south: and in thee and in thy seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed.
Gen 28:15 And, behold, I am with thee, and will keep thee in all places whither thou goest, and will bring thee again into this land; for I will not leave thee, until I have done that which I have spoken to thee of.
Gen 28:16 And Jacob awaked out of his sleep, and he said, Surely the LORD is in this place; and I knew it not.
Gen 28:17 And he was afraid, and said, How dreadful is this place! this is none other but the house of God, and this is the gate of heaven.
Gen 28:18 And Jacob rose up early in the morning, and took the stone that he had put for his pillows, and set it up for a pillar, and poured oil upon the top of it.
Gen 28:19 And he called the name of that place Bethel: but the name of that city was called Luz at the first.
Gen 28:20 And Jacob vowed a vow, saying, If God will be with me, and will keep me in this way that I go, and will give me bread to eat, and raiment to put on,
Gen 28:21 So that I come again to my father's house in peace; then shall the LORD be my God:
Gen 28:22 And this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God's house: and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee.
This is the very place where the temple was. I found this to be true from the Jewish institute.
It is no wonder that there is a fight for the temple place. It says on the outside of the Dome of Rock...God has no Son...in Arabic.
Gen 28:11 And he lighted upon a certain place, and tarried there all night, because the sun was set; and he took of the stones of that place, and put them for his pillows, and lay down in that place to sleep.
Gen 28:12 And he dreamed, and behold a ladder set up on the earth, and the top of it reached to heaven: and behold the angels of God ascending and descending on it.
Gen 28:13 And, behold, the LORD stood above it, and said, I am the LORD God of Abraham thy father, and the God of Isaac: the land whereon thou liest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed;
Gen 28:14 And thy seed shall be as the dust of the earth, and thou shalt spread abroad to the west, and to the east, and to the north, and to the south: and in thee and in thy seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed.
Gen 28:15 And, behold, I am with thee, and will keep thee in all places whither thou goest, and will bring thee again into this land; for I will not leave thee, until I have done that which I have spoken to thee of.
Gen 28:16 And Jacob awaked out of his sleep, and he said, Surely the LORD is in this place; and I knew it not.
Gen 28:17 And he was afraid, and said, How dreadful is this place! this is none other but the house of God, and this is the gate of heaven.
Gen 28:18 And Jacob rose up early in the morning, and took the stone that he had put for his pillows, and set it up for a pillar, and poured oil upon the top of it.
Gen 28:19 And he called the name of that place Bethel: but the name of that city was called Luz at the first.
Gen 28:20 And Jacob vowed a vow, saying, If God will be with me, and will keep me in this way that I go, and will give me bread to eat, and raiment to put on,
Gen 28:21 So that I come again to my father's house in peace; then shall the LORD be my God:
Gen 28:22 And this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God's house: and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee.
This is the very place where the temple was. I found this to be true from the Jewish institute.
It is no wonder that there is a fight for the temple place. It says on the outside of the Dome of Rock...God has no Son...in Arabic.
K
Yes,our church supports many outreaches to the Jewish people. But many will not come until their eyes have been opened. That does not mean we do not tell them. But with the history of the church and their relationship to Jews many Jews are very skeptical of Christians,and I cannot blame them with some of the things Ive heard said here.
K
[h=3]Jeremiah 30:1-31:40[/h]
The word that came to Jeremiah from the Lord: “Thus says the Lord, the God of Israel: Write in a book all the words that I have spoken to you. For behold, days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will restore the fortunes of my people, Israel and Judah, says the Lord, and I will bring them back to the land that I gave to their fathers, and they shall take possession of it.”
[h=3]Amos 9:14-15[/h]
I will restore the fortunes of my people Israel, and they shall rebuild the ruined cities and inhabit them; they shall plant vineyards and drink their wine, and they shall make gardens and eat their fruit. I will plant them on their land, and they shall never again be uprooted out of the land that I have given them,” says the Lord your God.
[h=3]Isaiah 43:5-6[/h]
Fear not, for I am with you; I will bring your offspring from the east, and from the west I will gather you. I will say to the north, Give up, and to the south, Do not withhold; bring my sons from afar and my daughters from the end of the earth
[h=3]Isaiah 11:12[/h]
He will raise a signal for the nations and will assemble the banished of Israel, and gather the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.
[h=3]Deuteronomy 30:3[/h]
Then the Lord your God will restore your fortunes and have compassion on you, and he will gather you again from all the peoples where the Lord your God has scattered you.
[h=3]Ezekiel 37:12[/h][h=3]Therefore prophesy, and say to them, Thus says the Lord God: Behold, I will open your graves and raise you from your graves, O my people. And I will bring you into the land of Israel.[/h]
[h=3]Isaiah 66:8[/h]
Who has heard such a thing? Who has seen such things? Shall a land be born in one day? Shall a nation be brought forth in one moment? For as soon as Zion was in labor she brought forth her children.
[FONT="]Is 11- "He will set up a banner for the nations,[/FONT]
[FONT="] and will assemble the outcasts of Israel,[/FONT]
[FONT="] and gather together the dispersed of Judah
[/FONT]
[FONT="] "And you, son of man, prophesy to the mountains of Israel,[/FONT]
[FONT="] and say, ‘O mountains of Israel,[/FONT]
[FONT="] hear the Word of the LORD ...’"[/FONT]
[FONT="] "But you, O mountains of Israel,[/FONT]
[FONT="] you shall shoot forth your branches[/FONT]
[FONT="] and yield your fruit to My people Israel,[/FONT]
[FONT="] for they are about to come . . ."[/FONT]
[FONT="] "For I will take you (the children of Israel) from among the nations,[/FONT]
[FONT="] gather you out of all countries,[/FONT]
[FONT="] and bring you into your own Land."[/FONT]
[FONT="][/FONT]
[FONT="] (Ezekiel 36:1, 8, 24)
To ignore this amount of Scripture is to ignore the Bible as a whole and the promises contained within. If God would break his everlasting promise to His chosen then the rest of us have no hope of the promises being kept to us.[/FONT]
The word that came to Jeremiah from the Lord: “Thus says the Lord, the God of Israel: Write in a book all the words that I have spoken to you. For behold, days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will restore the fortunes of my people, Israel and Judah, says the Lord, and I will bring them back to the land that I gave to their fathers, and they shall take possession of it.”
[h=3]Amos 9:14-15[/h]
I will restore the fortunes of my people Israel, and they shall rebuild the ruined cities and inhabit them; they shall plant vineyards and drink their wine, and they shall make gardens and eat their fruit. I will plant them on their land, and they shall never again be uprooted out of the land that I have given them,” says the Lord your God.
[h=3]Isaiah 43:5-6[/h]
Fear not, for I am with you; I will bring your offspring from the east, and from the west I will gather you. I will say to the north, Give up, and to the south, Do not withhold; bring my sons from afar and my daughters from the end of the earth
[h=3]Isaiah 11:12[/h]
He will raise a signal for the nations and will assemble the banished of Israel, and gather the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.
[h=3]Deuteronomy 30:3[/h]
Then the Lord your God will restore your fortunes and have compassion on you, and he will gather you again from all the peoples where the Lord your God has scattered you.
[h=3]Ezekiel 37:12[/h][h=3]Therefore prophesy, and say to them, Thus says the Lord God: Behold, I will open your graves and raise you from your graves, O my people. And I will bring you into the land of Israel.[/h]
[h=3]Isaiah 66:8[/h]
Who has heard such a thing? Who has seen such things? Shall a land be born in one day? Shall a nation be brought forth in one moment? For as soon as Zion was in labor she brought forth her children.
[FONT="]Is 11- "He will set up a banner for the nations,[/FONT]
[FONT="] and will assemble the outcasts of Israel,[/FONT]
[FONT="] and gather together the dispersed of Judah
[/FONT]
[FONT="] "And you, son of man, prophesy to the mountains of Israel,[/FONT]
[FONT="] and say, ‘O mountains of Israel,[/FONT]
[FONT="] hear the Word of the LORD ...’"[/FONT]
[FONT="] "But you, O mountains of Israel,[/FONT]
[FONT="] you shall shoot forth your branches[/FONT]
[FONT="] and yield your fruit to My people Israel,[/FONT]
[FONT="] for they are about to come . . ."[/FONT]
[FONT="] "For I will take you (the children of Israel) from among the nations,[/FONT]
[FONT="] gather you out of all countries,[/FONT]
[FONT="] and bring you into your own Land."[/FONT]
[FONT="][/FONT]
[FONT="] (Ezekiel 36:1, 8, 24)
To ignore this amount of Scripture is to ignore the Bible as a whole and the promises contained within. If God would break his everlasting promise to His chosen then the rest of us have no hope of the promises being kept to us.[/FONT]
stonesoffire:
If we would not have the New Testament, I would understand that you hold such doctrine. Having the OT only, it is apparent such view will be naturally hold if the Holy Spirit will not shed some light on it. Thats why Jews did not recognize the Christ. They got the wrong idea about the promise.
But why do you not count with what the New Testament says about all this?
For example:
-----------------
"And he is then also the father of the circumcised who not only are circumcised but who also follow in the footsteps of the faith that our father Abraham had before he was circumcised.
It was not through the law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise that he would be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that comes by faith.
For if those who depend on the law are heirs, faith means nothing and the promise is worthless
Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham's offspring--not only to those who are of the law but also to those who have the faith of Abraham. He is the father of us all."
Romans 4
-----------------
From this you can see that:
1. Unbelieving Jews are not the heirs of Abraham. So today´s Jews did not inherit any state of Israel and will not inherit anything else.
2. The promise about the land/world was not given to Jews (the people of the Law) only, but to us all.
We, who are in Christ, are the true heirs of Abraham, Jew, Chinese, Czech or American.
If we would not have the New Testament, I would understand that you hold such doctrine. Having the OT only, it is apparent such view will be naturally hold if the Holy Spirit will not shed some light on it. Thats why Jews did not recognize the Christ. They got the wrong idea about the promise.
But why do you not count with what the New Testament says about all this?
For example:
-----------------
"And he is then also the father of the circumcised who not only are circumcised but who also follow in the footsteps of the faith that our father Abraham had before he was circumcised.
It was not through the law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise that he would be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that comes by faith.
For if those who depend on the law are heirs, faith means nothing and the promise is worthless
Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham's offspring--not only to those who are of the law but also to those who have the faith of Abraham. He is the father of us all."
Romans 4
-----------------
From this you can see that:
1. Unbelieving Jews are not the heirs of Abraham. So today´s Jews did not inherit any state of Israel and will not inherit anything else.
2. The promise about the land/world was not given to Jews (the people of the Law) only, but to us all.
We, who are in Christ, are the true heirs of Abraham, Jew, Chinese, Czech or American.
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J
but thats exactly what your doing when you use terms like "the Jews". read about the history of Jerusalem in the days of Jesus and it will give you a better understanding of how things were in the days of the living Jesus. king herod and his officials were Jewish yet they were very roman in their heart and they killed many good Jews to get their positions. the Pharisees and Sadducees did the same to many of the lead priest. John the Baptist Father was one of these men and he was a good man that loved the Lord, he was killed for that over political agendas. many of the people saw them for what they were and wanted nothing to do with their ways.
its the same thing, i grew up being told it was the germans that did it all yet the majority of the german people had no idea what hitler, the nazis and the SS were up to. it wasnt the germans it was the nazis, one group of germans among many other germans.
did you ever stop and think of how many Jews are driven away from our faith by Christian leaders that were just as corrupt as the pharisees in the old days.
i have many native ancestors that hated Christianity, they never knew the true message of Jesus, all they knew were european Christians that killed their families and took everything without asking. i dont think those people were the real voice of Christianity, i know better.
its the same thing, i grew up being told it was the germans that did it all yet the majority of the german people had no idea what hitler, the nazis and the SS were up to. it wasnt the germans it was the nazis, one group of germans among many other germans.
did you ever stop and think of how many Jews are driven away from our faith by Christian leaders that were just as corrupt as the pharisees in the old days.
i have many native ancestors that hated Christianity, they never knew the true message of Jesus, all they knew were european Christians that killed their families and took everything without asking. i dont think those people were the real voice of Christianity, i know better.
J
i believe your correct. also some may want to consider:
Mat 19 28
Jesus said to them, “Truly, I say to you, in the new world, when the Son of Man will sit on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
looks like a Jew and 12 other Jews will be doing all the judging.
Mat 19 28
Jesus said to them, “Truly, I say to you, in the new world, when the Son of Man will sit on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
looks like a Jew and 12 other Jews will be doing all the judging.