Des' Calvinist Love-In

[Grandpa]

I grew up in Wesleyan church dominated by Pentecostal-influenced worship leaders. It was only apparent a portion of the time. When we attended youth conferences, they'd show their true colors.

Having grown up in that environment and having a Charismatic Roman Catholic great grandmother who I know was saved beyond a reasonable doubt has had a dual effect of-

1. Making me appreciate order and contemplation while worshiping as a body.

2. Tempering a possible tendency to label everybody around me a heretic. Nobody gets everything right. Praise be to God for the Grace He gives to our small minds and fickle hearts.

My Grandmother was a charismatic Roman Catholic as well. But I didn't know that side of the family until I moved to Montana where they lived. Which is when I first started going to church, as well. I was about 37 yrs old.

I pretty much know for a fact, as much as anyone can know, that she was saved too. But RCC makes me nervous with almost everything they do. From kissing statues and paintings to chanting in latin to praying to Mary and the Saints. Even with all that stuff that makes me nervous for people I know it must not disqualify them.

When she passed away I inherited her bibles. I didn't really like them at first. Especially the extra books, the Apocrypha. But I read them. And I was able to understand some verses that I didn't quite get in the KJV when I read her ESV. And I got to see all her notes and underlines which was cool.

 

[Desdichado]

It's good to see somebody else had a similar experience.

Especially when Christians of our persuasion are so often accused of being quick with the "heretic" trigger.

The Lord in His Providence brings people like that into our lives to show us how somebody can hold to an array of heterodox beliefs, but still be every bit as good a Christian or better.

My Grandmother was a charismatic Roman Catholic as well. But I didn't know that side of the family until I moved to Montana where they lived. Which is when I first started going to church, as well. I was about 37 yrs old.

I pretty much know for a fact, as much as anyone can know, that she was saved too. But RCC makes me nervous with almost everything they do. From kissing statues and paintings to chanting in latin to praying to Mary and the Saints. Even with all that stuff that makes me nervous for people I know it must not disqualify them.

When she passed away I inherited her bibles. I didn't really like them at first. Especially the extra books, the Apocrypha. But I read them. And I was able to understand some verses that I didn't quite get in the KJV when I read her ESV. And I got to see all her notes and underlines which was cool.

 

[Desdichado]

That and, as one famous theologian said, the heart is a factory of idols. How many idols and false doctrines do I hold? May the Lord root them out.

 

[maxwel]

Ohhhh, good point. There is another distinctive of Reformed churches- our ministers typically preach expositionally, not topically.

Your story is, as I've said, not at all unusual. People do not become Reformed because they love John Calvin and have TULIP tattooed on their back.

It is usually based on what the Holy Spirit has revealed to us in a close, contextual reading of the word. Very rarely is it anything else. Of course there are plenty of other interesting things which may draw somebody- a rich history, a strong intellectual legacy, beer. But those are not what initially bring seekers into our doors.

Their hearts are held captive to the word of God and they want to know more.

Correct.

Sometimes it's because of a head injury.



Did you know that in 2010 over 2.5 Million people had traumatic brain injuries?
https://www.cdc.gov/traumaticbraininjury/get_the_facts.html

Now, I'm not saying that ALL 2.5 Million of these people became Calvinists.

But then again, I'm not saying that they didn't.

What I'm saying is this:
For the past 15 years the incidence of traumatic brain injury has been increasing,
and for the past 15 years Calvinism has ALSO been increasing.

There's obviously a clear correlation.

What we don't know is if the traumatic brain injury makes the person more, or less, prone to understanding spiritual things.

I suppose it's possible that the bump on the head experienced by all Calvinists actually makes them MORE spiritually attuned.

I mean, we really just don't know.

This is obviously going to take more research, but I think we've made a fantastic start!

 

[Desdichado]

Reminds me of that cult in Fallout 3 that would expose their brains to enlightenment by cracking their skulls open after drug use.

Correct.

Sometimes it's because of a head injury.



Did you know that in 2010 over 2.5 Million people had traumatic brain injuries?
https://www.cdc.gov/traumaticbraininjury/get_the_facts.html

Now, I'm not saying that ALL 2.5 Million of these people became Calvinists.

But then again, I'm not saying that they didn't.

What I'm saying is this:
For the past 15 years the incidence of traumatic brain injury has been increasing,
and for the past 15 years Calvinism has ALSO been increasing.

There's obviously a clear correlation.

What we don't know is if the traumatic brain injury makes the person more, or less, prone to understanding spiritual things.

I suppose it's possible that the bump on the head experienced by all Calvinists actually makes them MORE spiritually attuned.

I mean, we really just don't know.

This is obviously going to take more research, but I think we've made a fantastic start!

 

[maxwel]

Well, I would never compare Calvinists to a cult.

Remember, I never said cult... I said head injury.

And we really shouldn't think of the "Calvinist Head Injury Syndrome"
(that's what I'm calling it) as any kind of slight, or insult.

It's just science. That's all.

It's just a proven, scientific phenomena, that we're all trying to understand.

 

[GODisLOVE7]

Well, I would never compare Calvinists to a cult.

Remember, I never said cult... I said head injury.

And we really shouldn't think of the "Calvinist Head Injury Syndrome"
(that's what I'm calling it) as any kind of slight, or insult.

It's just science. That's all.

It's just a proven, scientific phenomena, that we're all trying to understand.

Does the level of head trauma inflicted correspond with whether you are a 1 point, 2 point, 3 1/2 point Calvinist?

 

[Tintin]

Does the level of head trauma inflicted correspond with whether you are a 1 point, 2 point, 3 1/2 point Calvinist?

...and is Tiny Tim's "Tip-Toe Through the Tulips" really a treatise on 5-point Calvinism? I'm thinking, YES.

 

[notmyown]

I grew up in Wesleyan church dominated by Pentecostal-influenced worship leaders. It was only apparent a portion of the time. When we attended youth conferences, they'd show their true colors.

Having grown up in that environment and having a Charismatic Roman Catholic great grandmother who I know was saved beyond a reasonable doubt has had a dual effect of-

1. Making me appreciate order and contemplation while worshiping as a body.

2. Tempering a possible tendency to label everybody around me a heretic. Nobody gets everything right. Praise be to God for the Grace He gives to our small minds and fickle hearts.

as much as it's possible for me to know, Aunt Barb belongs to the Lord Jesus.
did it seem i was calling her a heretic? i didn't mean to.

and yeah, well, OPC.... liturgy. i guess it runs in the family.

 

[notmyown]

Max, when i was a teen my dad gave me a birthday card i still remember.

"Long ago on a sunny morn, a little baby girl was born.
The world rejoiced; the doctor said, 'Oops! I dropped her on her head!'"

there could be something to your theory?

 

[Desdichado]

Goodness no. You sound like a loving niece.

If I criticize the hair-trigger inquisitors, it's directed more at some millennial cage-stagers I know on other websites. Nobody here. Not yet, anyway.

If they do appear, let's resolve to set a better example for them.

as much as it's possible for me to know, Aunt Barb belongs to the Lord Jesus.
did it seem i was calling her a heretic? i didn't mean to.

and yeah, well, OPC.... liturgy. i guess it runs in the family.

 

[Desdichado]

My fellow Reformed types, Lutheran allies, and Maxwel

I recently pawed through Sproul's What is Reformed Theology? And I have to say the first half of the book is fantastic in orienting cage-stagers in our midst toward what the basis of Reformed theology is. Particularly the first half which focuses on the 5 Foundation Stones of Reformed Theology:

1. Centered on God
2. Based on God's Word Alone
3. Committed to Faith Alone
4. Devoted to the Prophet, Priest, and King
5. Covenant Theology

This is a brilliant and brief orientation that gets to the heart of what Reformed theology is all about. It would certainly stymie the snarling cage-stage if administered early. Perhaps couple it with Maxwel's Hammer.

In the second half, Sproul swings through and defends all five points (while cherry picking some John Owen quotes in the section on limited atonement), but I almost wish he would have simply made that a second book altogether. Make your friend read it after they read the first half twice or maybe three times.

Does the level of head trauma inflicted correspond with whether you are a 1 point, 2 point, 3 1/2 point Calvinist?

 

[maxwel]

Does the level of head trauma inflicted correspond with whether you are a 1 point, 2 point, 3 1/2 point Calvinist?

We're still researching.

Some of the Calvinists in our laboratory have felt predestined to escape...

we're doing the best we can.

 

[Desdichado]

Many are called to escape, but few are chosen.

We're still researching.

Some of the Calvinists in our laboratory have felt predestined to escape...

we're doing the best we can.

 

[maxwel]

Many are called to escape, but few are chosen.

Hahaha.

That made me spit up my coffee.

I really need to get back to work, lol.

 

[Descyple]

Correct.

Sometimes it's because of a head injury.



Did you know that in 2010 over 2.5 Million people had traumatic brain injuries?
https://www.cdc.gov/traumaticbraininjury/get_the_facts.html

Now, I'm not saying that ALL 2.5 Million of these people became Calvinists.

But then again, I'm not saying that they didn't.

What I'm saying is this:
For the past 15 years the incidence of traumatic brain injury has been increasing,
and for the past 15 years Calvinism has ALSO been increasing.

There's obviously a clear correlation.

What we don't know is if the traumatic brain injury makes the person more, or less, prone to understanding spiritual things.

I suppose it's possible that the bump on the head experienced by all Calvinists actually makes them MORE spiritually attuned.

I mean, we really just don't know.

This is obviously going to take more research, but I think we've made a fantastic start!

There actually is some truth to the "Head Injury" theory. For example, I was an Arminian for the first 19 years of my Christian life, then one day I was walking through a Christian book store and I tripped over a pile of sermons from Jacob Arminius, and when I landed I hit my head on a copy of John Calvin's "Institutes of the Christian Religion" and I've been Reformed ever since.

Just a coincidence? Maybe, maybe not!


P.S. - If anyone believes the story I just told, then I've got some land in Antarctica I would like to sell you!

 

[Desdichado]

As long as the land is somewhere close to the lizard people who ate the Nazis.

I need someone to trade with...

There actually is some truth to the "Head Injury" theory. For example, I was an Arminian for the first 19 years of my Christian life, then one day I was walking through a Christian book store and I tripped over a pile of sermons from Jacob Arminius, and when I landed I hit my head on a copy of John Calvin's "Institutes of the Christian Religion" and I've been Reformed ever since.

Just a coincidence? Maybe, maybe not!


P.S. - If anyone believes the story I just told, then I've got some land in Antarctica I would like to sell you!

 

[Descyple]

That's a subject for a whole other thread, Desdichado - lol.

As long as the land is somewhere close to the lizard people who ate the Nazis.

I need someone to trade with...

 

[Desdichado]

I started a thread on continuationism vs. cessationism in the Bible subforum. I'd like to hear all your thoughts on the subject over there.

 

[GODisLOVE7]

There actually is some truth to the "Head Injury" theory. For example, I was an Arminian for the first 19 years of my Christian life, then one day I was walking through a Christian book store and I tripped over a pile of sermons from Jacob Arminius, and when I landed I hit my head on a copy of John Calvin's "Institutes of the Christian Religion" and I've been Reformed ever since.

Just a coincidence? Maybe, maybe not!


P.S. - If anyone believes the story I just told, then I've got some land in Antarctica I would like to sell you!

My head injuries are caused by the Holy Spirit smacking me over the head repeatedly with Bibles daily... I'm learning to appreciate the hard line He has taken with me. Although I still stomp my feet and whine off in the corner at times.