Should Christians be guided by prophecies?

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notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
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#41
How did that "working through the word of God" work when there wasn't a bit of Scripture involved for Gideon? You do that quite often.... infer that we have to get everything from only reading black and white words out of our hardbound Bible books.
You do that quite often...question the word of God as the basis for all knowledge of God. Jesus is the Word of God made flesh.

What do you have against Gods way of leading Gideon? Why do not believe it is useful even today? Gideon is an OT example for us today in the NT.

For the cause of Chris
Roger
 
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LaurenTM

Guest
#42
Suppose a Christian is considering whether to move to a new city or not. There, he would have better job opportunities, but he is doubtful about God's plan for his life. So, before the service in his Pentecostal church he earnestly prays for guidance. During the sermon the pastor (or elder) says: "a brother in here is seeking advice from God on whether to move away from this city. God says this brother may go because He has a plan for him in the new city".

I know a number of Christians who let themselves be guided by such prophecies and were successful, but I know some cases of negative results. I have no statistics on that because failures are almost never made public.

What do you folks think about that? Is it OK for Christians to let themselves be guided by such prophecies?
I am not an advocate of 'personal prophecy' ... maybe in part because I have seen it so abused...:(

I think it is far better to get directives from the Lord and confirmation from people...I think that should be the order of things

I don't think we should be guided by so called personal prophecy...what part does the Holy Spirit play in a person's life in that case?

I'm really not comfortable with it at all...
 
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LaurenTM

Guest
#43
Ok, teachable moment for those willing to listen.

THERE ARE NO NEW PROPHECIES. Can you find "You will get a job at Walmart" anywhere in the Bible? If not, it is not prophecy. Prophecy uses the existing word of God. There are no new prophecies.

"You will get a job at Walmart" is a word of knowledge (perhaps wisdom). If it is from God it will be confirmed by at least one other witness. And it will not in any way violate scripture. And yes, it is generally delivered privately between individuals and not delivered to an assembly (altho it could be if needed).

Does it make a difference? Eh, some will call it semantics. And in that sense no it doesn't. But then, some will want to know specifics about the subject of prophecy/words of wisdom. It's kinda like asking if your package will be delivered by box truck or semi. It's not terribly important in terms of will your package arrive. But box trucks and semis are built for different purposes, and a mature believer should know the difference between prophecy and words of wisdom/knowledge.
yes

I about have given up trying to explain the difference in this forum and also the fact that using OT scripture to call yourself or someone else a prophet is just ignoring the fact of the Holy Spirit now indwelling people

I sometimes do get very specific words of knowledge..I'm not comfortable with it actually...thinking about it...but when it happens, the impression is different, very different, then if I just had a certain thought in and of myself

the word 'prophet' is tossed around like a 5 cent coin and most often by those who do not know what they are talking about
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,215
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#44
Suppose a Christian is considering whether to move to a new city or not. There, he would have better job opportunities, but he is doubtful about God's plan for his life. So, before the service in his Pentecostal church he earnestly prays for guidance. During the sermon the pastor (or elder) says: "a brother in here is seeking advice from God on whether to move away from this city. God says this brother may go because He has a plan for him in the new city".

I know a number of Christians who let themselves be guided by such prophecies and were successful, but I know some cases of negative results. I have no statistics on that because failures are almost never made public.

What do you folks think about that? Is it OK for Christians to let themselves be guided by such prophecies?
Prophecy alone is not enough, prophecy can be given even by the enemy and if you can't discern the voice of God from his or even from your own then you cannot trust such a prophecy.

I don't know if you mean a prophecy given to someone to move or if one thinks they received a prophecy but I do know this, God has always given me a sense of knowing in my heart you just know it's from him because you know his voice and if you trust him you instinctively act. a while back God used me to help heal an entire church it was a church I had never been to and upon meeting people there and talking I found that this church had lost many people recently and even more of the members have have precious people suffering greatly and while everyone there was smiling and acting happy and nice to me I could read the pain in their hearts.

As I sat in the sermon that the pastor was teaching I felt something in me I never did before I had this urgent feeling in my heart to get on stage and speak to these people I didn't know what I was going to say I only knew I just had to get up there and my body just moved. the Pastor allowed me to speak and the words just flowed when my speech was finished something happened I didn't expect everyone was cheering and applauding in tears and everyone was telling me how my words had helped heal the pain and inner wounds in their hearts. Of course I had to tell them it wasn't my words that were spoken as only his words could do such a thing I was merely a willing child to be used.

Now this kind of thing is what I recommend you listen for, when he tells you to do something you know it you instinctively act listen for his voice not the voice of others
 
Feb 7, 2015
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#45
Christians are guided by two things. The word of God and the Holy Spirit working through the word of God.

Gideon put out a fleece before the Lord to confirm the will if God in a matter.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
How did that "working through the word of God" work when there wasn't a bit of Scripture involved for Gideon? You do that quite often.... infer that we have to get everything from only reading black and white words out of our hardbound Bible books.
You do that quite often...question the word of God as the basis for all knowledge of God. Jesus is the Word of God made flesh.

What do you have against Gods way of leading Gideon? Why do not believe it is useful even today? Gideon is an OT example for us today in the NT.

For the cause of Chris
Roger
Don't even try to play that game.

You know very well that you are always attempting to tell people they can only find true guidance from the written words inside a Bible book... but you carelessly mentioned Gideon getting guidance from a piece of hide thrown on the ground, and depending upon the moisture content of that sheepskin to show him God's will... which it clearly did.

Gideon got an answer from God without consulting Scripture at all. But you constantly tell people that if they did not read it from the pages of a written book, it cannot be from God.

I left that CoC nonsense far behind years ago.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
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#46
Don't even try to play that game.

You know very well that you are always attempting to tell people they can only find true guidance from the written words inside a Bible book... but you carelessly mentioned Gideon getting guidance from a piece of hide thrown on the ground, and depending upon the moisture content of that sheepskin to show him God's will... which it clearly did.

Gideon got an answer from God without consulting Scripture at all. But you constantly tell people that if they did not read it from the pages of a written book, it cannot be from God.

I left that CoC nonsense far behind years ago.
Gideon's experience is in the word of God. If you do not understand how to pray on a given matter you would do well to read Gods word and meditate upon it. First comes knowledge then the Holy Spirit gives understanding from which we mature into wisdom.

You just want to take a shortcut to maturity.

FYI I have never been in a CoC assembly.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
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#47
That makes a lot of sense. In fact, it makes perfect sense.

Here's the one reservation I have: Why would Paul preach about the importance of a prophetic gifting if it was no longer important?
It is important. Many today do not know how to properly apply God's word to their situations. That is where prophecy comes in today. Guidance in using that which already exists.
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
787
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#48
Details surrounding this discussion need to be backed with scriptural arguments, especially since the prophetic gift expresses itself in more abstract terms than say, healing or teaching.

JMO.
You are absolutely right; everything we understand and believe is to backed up by scripture.

The problem here is it quickly becomes a 'scripture war', and I hate scripture being used against scripture.

I post one scripture to support my understanding; some one then posts two saying the opposite, I see their two and raise them a third... and on it goes. It's like poker. And I hate to see scripture used as gambling chips.

I'm not sure how to resolve these conflicts.
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
787
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#49
I am not an advocate of 'personal prophecy' ... maybe in part because I have seen it so abused...:(
Just because something is abused is not necessarily reason to dismiss it. Discernment is the key. satan loves nothing more than to see us throw out the baby with the bathwater. That why he works so hard to muddy those waters.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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#50
Speaking of "fleeces". In the Old testament man did not have the Holy Spirit inside of them joined as one spirit with the Lord like we do now because we are in Christ. So, Gideon had to deal in the natural realm with God. Satan is the "god" of this world's system and does operate in the natural here so he can influence things.

I have seen people put "fleeces" out and they got "fleeced"....:rolleyes:

Putting fleeces out in the natural in order to find God's will is contrary to New Covenant realities which is the Spirit of God inside of us leading us. It will not violate the scriptures of course but it originates within our new hearts that are in Christ.

Depend on "natural" things like fleeces for confirmation without the witness of the Spirit of God and you will get "fleeced" and learn the hard way.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#51
Speaking of "fleeces". In the Old testament man did not have the Holy Spirit inside of them joined as one spirit with the Lord like we do now because we are in Christ. So, Gideon had to deal in the natural realm with God. Satan is the "god" of this world's system and does operate in the natural here so he can influence things.

I have seen people put "fleeces" out and they got "fleeced"....:rolleyes:

Putting fleeces out in the natural in order to find God's will is contrary to New Covenant realities which is the Spirit of God inside of us leading us. It will not violate the scriptures of course but it originates within our new hearts that are in Christ.

Depend on "natural" things like fleeces for confirmation without the witness of the Spirit of God and you will get "fleeced" and learn the hard way.
So you cannot make the NT application either.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
4,834
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#52
If God told you to speak to someone a specific word, would you listen? If such words were a directive, of what to do, would you still share what God has put on your heart to share with that person? You see, this could be in the area of prophecy but it also could simply be listening to God's guidance. If God says to go right from another man, will you go left? Or will you consider what this man has said? One should discern if it is of the Lord, and if you need confirmation God will give it.

You have a personal relationship with the Lord. You will know if it is of God, do your due diligence. Yes, this method is still used today, but make sure that it is of God. Sometimes men are fallible in how they articulate things and so you must also seek the Lord on the matter. "Lord, was that of you? What did this mean?" He will guide your steps.
 
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LaurenTM

Guest
#53
Just because something is abused is not necessarily reason to dismiss it. Discernment is the key. satan loves nothing more than to see us throw out the baby with the bathwater. That why he works so hard to muddy those waters.

but that is not what I said Ricky

there are no babies lying in the mud here...why would you think I said that?

it almost sounds like you are going on back on what you said regarding the diff between a word of knowledge and prophecy

please don't assume I said what I did not say by omitting what I did say

I said I have at times received very specific words of knowledge...that does not sound like I am poo pooing the gifts to me

I would not leave home without discernment
 
Nov 22, 2015
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#54
So you cannot make the NT application either.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
What I see are that some people try to live by the natural and miss the supernatural work of the leading of the Spirit of God within us. Those will get "fleeced".
 
Feb 7, 2015
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#55
What I see are that some people try to live by the natural and miss the supernatural work of the leading of the Spirit of God within us. Those will get "fleeced".
Don't say that! LOL He is working hard to get people not to believe in anything but getting answers from inside a book.
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,783
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#56
My experience of prophecy, is that it is to expand or explain the Word of God. Yes, Willie, the written Word of God, which you frequently seem to have such distain for. A pastor prophecies the Word during a sermon. As the sermon continues, the Holy Spirit will illuminate what the preacher is saying. I know each time I preach, someone will tell me something God really showed them. Sometimes, it has little to do with the sermon. In other cases, God will give them a Word directly from the Scriptures, illustrations or other parts of the sermon. Or, for that matter, something else that happened in the service. And people hear completely different things. Sometimes, they don't even hear the purpose or conclusions that I have said, because God has given them a different perspective, and that is how it should be. I do believe God speaks to each one of us individually and in manys ways.

As for as personal prophecy, I am very much against it. I am not saying that sometimes it is not accurate and from God. When my husband and I were young Christians, we went to an evangelistic dinner, and the speaker prayed over us, and gave a word of knowledge. It was totally accurate. In fact it shook my husband to his boots, because he had not seen it before that moment.

But, I think there is too much room for abuse these days. I also think that we do need to grow up in the Lord, and pray and seek God for personal matters. That means both consistent prayer and study of the Word. I know if I read something in the Bible, and then hear that verse over and over that day, or in the days to come, that is not coincidence but God.

I remember before Christmas, studying and translating Matt 6 in Greek. The next day, I was doing my read through the Bible in English, and Matt 6 was the Scripture. So was it coincidence? Not when after I finished reading both in English and Greek, I picked up "The Divine Conspiracy" by Dallas Willard, only moments later, and he was expounding the same verses in Matt 6. It was amazing.

God is speaking to me about an area in my life I need to work on right now. It seems like every time I talk to someone, open up a book, go to a Christian website, it is about this area. No one needs to give me a special word of knowledge or prophecy to know what God is saying to me. And usually, the sermon at church, no matter who gives it, always illuminates what God is saying.

So, if God wants you to move, you are the one that needs to seek him for the answer. A generic Word from the pulpit, may not even be directed at you. I know I wouldn't want to move based on a Word from the pulpit, unless it was the confirmation of everything God had been saying in the written Word and in many people. And especially something I had prayed about. If you feel uncomfortable about a Word of Knowledge from the pulpit, then it probably isn't for you. I always have such solid assurance when God is speaking to me. The words of other people, even if they come directly out of the Bible, should only be a confirmation of what God has already told you. In other words, I would never do something just because it was said in church or elswhere. I would always take my direction from God.


Finally, as far as Timothy and the gifts which he had been given at his ordination, or "laying on of hands" these were special gifts for him, in a time with little access to copies of the Word of God. It was a personal letter, which is not to say we cannot read and apply it, but we do need to remember that Timothy was a real person, and the words were first written to Timothy, who lived in the 1st century AD in Ephesus, where the church was quite the mess - men as well as women! That doesn't mean God isn't still allowing these gifts, of course, but it does mean we do need to keep in mind who it was written to and why. It would be narcissistic to think the book of 1 Timothy, (or any other book in the Bible,) was God writing specifically to us in the 21st century, although we can ALWAYS learn and grow, and hear from God through the reading and preaching of the Word.
 
Feb 7, 2015
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#57
My experience of prophecy, is that it is to expand or explain the Word of God. Yes, Willie, the written Word of God, which you frequently seem to have such distain for. A pastor prophecies the Word during a sermon. As the sermon continues, the Holy Spirit will illuminate what the preacher is saying. I know each time I preach, someone will tell me something God really showed them. Sometimes, it has little to do with the sermon. In other cases, God will give them a Word directly from the Scriptures, illustrations or other parts of the sermon. Or, for that matter, something else that happened in the service. And people hear completely different things. Sometimes, they don't even hear the purpose or conclusions that I have said, because God has given them a different perspective, and that is how it should be. I do believe God speaks to each one of us individually and in manys ways.

As for as personal prophecy, I am very much against it. I am not saying that sometimes it is not accurate and from God. When my husband and I were young Christians, we went to an evangelistic dinner, and the speaker prayed over us, and gave a word of knowledge. It was totally accurate. In fact it shook my husband to his boots, because he had not seen it before that moment.

But, I think there is too much room for abuse these days. I also think that we do need to grow up in the Lord, and pray and seek God for personal matters. That means both consistent prayer and study of the Word. I know if I read something in the Bible, and then hear that verse over and over that day, or in the days to come, that is not coincidence but God.

I remember before Christmas, studying and translating Matt 6 in Greek. The next day, I was doing my read through the Bible in English, and Matt 6 was the Scripture. So was it coincidence? Not when after I finished reading both in English and Greek, I picked up "The Divine Conspiracy" by Dallas Willard, only moments later, and he was expounding the same verses in Matt 6. It was amazing.

God is speaking to me about an area in my life I need to work on right now. It seems like every time I talk to someone, open up a book, go to a Christian website, it is about this area. No one needs to give me a special word of knowledge or prophecy to know what God is saying to me. And usually, the sermon at church, no matter who gives it, always illuminates what God is saying.

So, if God wants you to move, you are the one that needs to seek him for the answer. A generic Word from the pulpit, may not even be directed at you. I know I wouldn't want to move based on a Word from the pulpit, unless it was the confirmation of everything God had been saying in the written Word and in many people. And especially something I had prayed about. If you feel uncomfortable about a Word of Knowledge from the pulpit, then it probably isn't for you. I always have such solid assurance when God is speaking to me. The words of other people, even if they come directly out of the Bible, should only be a confirmation of what God has already told you. In other words, I would never do something just because it was said in church or elswhere. I would always take my direction from God.


Finally, as far as Timothy and the gifts which he had been given at his ordination, or "laying on of hands" these were special gifts for him, in a time with little access to copies of the Word of God. It was a personal letter, which is not to say we cannot read and apply it, but we do need to remember that Timothy was a real person, and the words were first written to Timothy, who lived in the 1st century AD in Ephesus, where the church was quite the mess - men as well as women! That doesn't mean God isn't still allowing these gifts, of course, but it does mean we do need to keep in mind who it was written to and why. It would be narcissistic to think the book of 1 Timothy, (or any other book in the Bible,) was God writing specifically to us in the 21st century, although we can ALWAYS learn and grow, and hear from God through the reading and preaching of the Word.
Yes, that is exactly the point. If all you rely upon is turning to a page, and being convinced that the interpretation you have been taught of a certain verse is the guiding truth, then you stand a good chance of ending up like the Westboro Mob who swear to the death that their narrow, restricted interpretation of the Bible (The same Bible all of us read) is solidly true..... with all the prejudice and hatred they absolutely KNOW they see right there on those pages.

My frequent disdain, as you call it, is not for the word of God, but rather for the VERY limited view many people are mired in.
 
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LaurenTM

Guest
#58
I believe (think) that a solid foundation in scripture is needed before a person can say God said anything

having said that, if it is the Holy Spirit prompting someone, He is not going to tell you to swing from the rafters or punch people in the stomach and say they are healed (xtreme examples but truthful...)

I think we have to believe that God works outside of the framework of scripture but inside the truths of it and never against it

if that is understandable, I must have said it right haha
 
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LaurenTM

Guest
#59
Finally, as far as Timothy and the gifts which he had been given at his ordination, or "laying on of hands" these were special gifts for him, in a time with little access to copies of the Word of God. It was a personal letter, which is not to say we cannot read and apply it, but we do need to remember that Timothy was a real person, and the words were first written to Timothy, who lived in the 1st century AD in Ephesus, where the church was quite the mess - men as well as women! That doesn't mean God isn't still allowing these gifts, of course, but it does mean we do need to keep in mind who it was written to and why. It would be narcissistic to think the book of 1 Timothy, (or any other book in the Bible,) was God writing specifically to us in the 21st century, although we can ALWAYS learn and grow, and hear from God through the reading and preaching of the Word.
I personally think it is more a case of US allowing God to use US by His Spirit

so shoot me...lol!
 
Nov 22, 2015
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#60
I believe (think) that a solid foundation in scripture is needed before a person can say God said anything

having said that, if it is the Holy Spirit prompting someone, He is not going to tell you to swing from the rafters or punch people in the stomach and say they are healed (xtreme examples but truthful...)

I think we have to believe that God works outside of the framework of scripture but inside the truths of it and never against it

if that is understandable, I must have said it right haha
I agree in a general sense.....but sometimes strange things happen by the Spirit of God. The proof of it's origin should be - what is the fruit of this act?

What about the time Jesus spit right in the eye of a blind man? Imagine the hey-day the non-believers would have with that act..."God would never do something like that. God is a God of decency and order".
 
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