The Sign Of Jonah

[BeyondET]

I really think that the problem is yours... The scripture states that (Matthew 12:40):

Matthew 12:40 (KJV).."For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."

This is not speaking of his death but afterwards in the grave.

No argument there yup three days and three nights is a statement that is true,, now where people get that wrong IMO. They seem to want to add a time line like O scripture says there is 12 hours in a day and 12 in a night and that verse must mean it was a complete 72 hour time line.. Sorry but doesn't apply to everything said in sripture is to be used with that scale. It was a figurative statement in general three days and three night.

Let me see your math,, and I assume your going to start on Wednesday because that is the only way your going to pull out a 72 hour time line.. And scripture doesn't say it was on Wednesday not at all..

 

[BrokenSparrow]

I really think that the problem is yours... The scripture states that (Matthew 12:40):

Matthew 12:40 (KJV).."For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."

This is not speaking of his death but afterwards in the grave.

This thread is pretty hard to follow. I've got a question though. Do we know if Jonah was in the whale's belly for three full days and three full nights (72 hours)? Could it not have been less than 72 hours and still been considered 3 days and 3 nights?

 

[BeyondET]

Yes, we we Strictly talking about 'the Death of Jesus' and the time line. Now if you to go through the prophecies and dates from which it can be proved that Jesus entered Jerusalem, I can do that with the understanding tht you are not going to be happy about it...

Ok let's see it,, no doubt it can be bunked, no one has ever said there is exact time line to the date of April 6 32AD.. Let see it this should be good.. And on a Wednesday at that..

 

[oldhermit]

This thread is pretty hard to follow. I've got a question though. Do we know if Jonah was in the whale's belly for three full days and three full nights (72 hours)? Could it not have been less than 72 hours and still been considered 3 days and 3 nights?

Yes, it could have been less than 72 hours and still been considered 3 days and 3 nights but no, we have no way to prove that he was actually in the belly of the fish for a full 72 hours.

 

[beta]

I do believe what it says and it doesn't say it was in 72 hours,, if you say what you believe then why didn't you say he was buried at the setting sun and risen on the setting sun, three days later 72 hours..

ok let's say you think it was Thursday the first setting sun,,, the second setting sun is Friday evening One complete day 24 hours, the third setting sun is Saturday now it's 48 hours, the forth setting sun on Sunday evening makes up a complete 72 hours circuit..

Using such time lines let's see you put the 72 hours in order from the cross or tomb which ever you choice then count the hours each 12 hours you mentioned and show me I'm wrong,, please if I'm seeing the 72 hour time line wrong prove me wrong.. With the math...

The beginning of the count is not 'my choice....JESUS predicted how long He would be in the heart of the earth - which you don't believe to be the tomb. However, the tomb is where His body was laid just before sunset as the sabbath or high day (you also question) drew on.
1) the first day starting at sunset on Wednesday until sunset on Thursday Unl bread.
2)second day when the women prepared ointments and essences - sunset Thurs - sunset frid.
3)third day weekly sabbath when they rested from sunset frid - sunset saturday.
Sunday while still dark, some time after sunset they go to the tomb but Jesus was risen.

To have risen sunset saturday He would have had to be buried sunset wednesday....and this is what people can't agree on.

 

[BeyondET]

The beginning of the count is not 'my choice....JESUS predicted how long He would be in the heart of the earth - which you don't believe to be the tomb. However, the tomb is where His body was laid just before sunset as the sabbath or high day (you also question) drew on.
1) the first day starting at sunset on Wednesday until sunset on Thursday Unl bread.
2)second day when the women prepared ointments and essences - sunset Thurs - sunset frid.
3)third day weekly sabbath when they rested from sunset frid - sunset saturday.
Sunday while still dark, some time after sunset they go to the tomb but Jesus was risen.


To have risen sunset saturday He would have had to be buried sunset wednesday....and this is what people can't agree on.

Let see your math

1) 24 hours, first 12h night, first 12h day. Thursday
2) 48 hours second 12h night' second 12h day. Friday
3) 72 hours third 12n night, third 12h day. Saturday.

4) Sunday's first 12 hours is night which begun at 6pm Saturday evening add up to 84 hours to the morning of Sunday the first day of the week.. can't be because that's falsely saying scripture meant more than three days beyond 72 hours

do you think there was a night during the first evening??

Anything after 6 pm Saturday evening is into the forth day beyond that 72 hour time line 3 days and three nights.
So that doesn't line up either because you have the resurrection well into the forth day beyond the 72 hours three days and three nights..

 

[BeyondET]

Mark should have said on not after, because that is saying it didn't happen within three days. Matthew and Luke get it right in saying it was on the third day, during the third day, not at the end of the third or after..



From that time on, Jesus began to show his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and undergo great suffering at the hands of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and on the third day be raised.


Then he began to teach them that the Son of Man must undergo great suffering, and be rejected by the elders, the chief priests, and the scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again.


“The Son of Man must undergo great suffering, and be rejected by the elders, chief priests, and scribes, and be killed, and on the third day be raised.”

“The Son of Man is going to be betrayed into human hands, and they will kill him, and on the third day he will be raised.”

“See, we are going up to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man will be handed over to the chief priests and scribes, and they will condemn him to death; then they will hand him over to the Gentiles to be mocked and flogged and crucified; and on the third day he will be raised.”

 

[oldhermit]

Mark should have said on not after, because that is saying it didn't happen within three days. Matthew and Luke get it right in saying it was on the third day, during the third day, not at the end of the third or after

???Mark does say, "Jesus rose early on the first day of the week" in verse 9 if this is what you are referring to.

 

[BeyondET]

???Mark does say, "Jesus rose early on the first day of the week" in verse 9 if this is what you are referring to.

Indeed, and I think Marks statement of after three days was just that, a statement of after the fact it was completed he had risen, though still isn't saying it was after 72 hours. But that's a mind set on how one looks at it in saying.. Mark when he wrote or should I say copied/dictated the testimonies of the scrolls and writings that were passed down from many as mentioned in Luke 1:1.. For I do believe the same was how he did too for he wasn't a eyewitness or anything.. He had access to peters work and thoughts as well.
Though Mark had a unique style of teaching, some times he elaborated on things and sometimes he just kept it simple and sweat..

 

[beta]

No argument there yup three days and three nights is a statement that is true,, now where people get that wrong IMO. They seem to want to add a time line like O scripture says there is 12 hours in a day and 12 in a night and that verse must mean it was a complete 72 hour time line.. Sorry but doesn't apply to everything said in sripture is to be used with that scale. It was a figurative statement in general three days and three night.

Let me see your math,, and I assume your going to start on Wednesday because that is the only way your going to pull out a 72 hour time line.. And scripture doesn't say it was on Wednesday not at all..

No, scripture does not say it was a wednesday, so why don't you try and work/count your way back from when Jesus was discovered risen early sunday morning while still dark....count 3 days and 3 nights back and you will find Him buried during the hours of darkness...you think that is scriptural ?
Of course treating Jesus prediction as a casual remark you will be able to fit it into any situation.

 

[BeyondET]

Though I do have great respect and honor towards Mark he paid a high price to bring us his account on things. For Mark was dragged through the streets in Alexandra by a crowd of people until his limbs were ripped off.. A horrible death and I'm sadden that happened to him..


Mark
The Author of the book of Mark..

John Mark, whose given name was John but whose Latin surname was Mark, was the son of a wealthy family of Christians in Jerusalem. It seems he was reared in an atmosphere of culture and piety. Evidently younger than the apostles, at the time he wrote his gospel, he was most likely the youngest of the writers of the New Testament.
Mark was the son of Mary, a friend of the apostles (Acts 12:12). Barnabas, Paul’s friend and traveling companion, was his cousin (Colossians 4:10). He was well-known to the disciples in Jerusalem. He worked with Paul and Barnabas and was said to have worked with the apostle Peter who referred to him as his “son” (1 Peter 5:13). He went with Paul and Barnabas on their first preaching journey but turned back in Asia Minor returning to Jerusalem (Acts 13:13). On the second trip, after Paul determined not to have him along, he and Barnabas sailed to Cyprus (Acts 15:36-41). He is mentioned some ten years later when in 2 Timothy 4:11 Paul commands Timothy to get Mark and bring him to Rome.
Mark supposedly died by being “dragged to pieces by the people of Alexandria, at the great solemnity of Serapis their idol” (Fox’s Book of Martyrs, Zondervan Pub. Co., Grand Rapids, 1975, p. 3).
B. TheMessageoftheBook.
The book of Mark is an historical narrative which, though giving a representative picture of both the person and work of Jesus, emphasizes the person of Christ. As stated in the first verse of the book, this gospel was written to show Jesus as the Son of God. It was written to Gentiles, particularly those in Rome, to convince them of the deity and mission of Christ.
Mark’s book is the gospel of action. The Greek word “euthus,” which is variously translated “straightway,” “immediately” and/or “forthwith” is used some forty-two times in it. It seems that Mark is more concerned with deeds than words.
C. Some Exclusive Things in the Book.
Since over ninety percent of the content of the book of Mark is found in Matthew and Luke, there are very few unique passages in the book. The only incident peculiar to Mark is the flight of the young man (14:51-52). Only one parable is unique to it—the growth of the seed (4:26-29). Two miracles are peculiar to it—the deaf and dumb man cured (7:31-37) and a blind man cured (8:22-26).

 

[beta]

???Mark does say, "Jesus rose early on the first day of the week" in verse 9 if this is what you are referring to.

Mk 16v9 says 'when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week....

can you see how you have changed the meaning of this scripture ???

 

[BeyondET]

No, scripture does not say it was a wednesday, so why don't you try and work/count your way back from when Jesus was discovered risen early sunday morning while still dark....count 3 days and 3 nights back and you will find Him buried during the hours of darkness...you think that is scriptural ?
Of course treating Jesus prediction as a casual remark you will be able to fit it into any situation.

you talk a lot yet show no time line yourself,, I ask you to show me, prove me wrong, show me how it works out.. Can you at least do that instead of saying a bunch of stuff..

I'm willing to work out the hours with you, are you willing to work it out as well.. Let me see how you would place the hours from when he died or buried either way don't matter.

 

[oldhermit]

Though I do have great respect and honor towards Mark he paid a high price to bring us his account on things. For Mark was dragged through the streets in Alexandra by a crowd of people until his limbs were ripped off.. A horrible death and I'm sadden that happened to him.

So tradition tells us. The fact is that as a prophet like Luke, his gospel was no less inspired and authoritative than any of the others. They are all the product of the Holy Spirit. He is the true author of the gospel of Mark.

 

[oldhermit]

Mk 16v9 says 'when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week....

can you see how you have changed the meaning of this scripture ???

I did not change anything. I just quoted it as it appears in the text.

 

[BeyondET]

So tradition tells us. The fact is that as a prophet like Luke, his gospel was no less inspired and authoritative than any of the others. They are all the product of the Holy Spirit. He is the true author of the gospel of Mark.

From the study's I've learned, Mark was the youngest of the four writers, Luke was a companion of Paul and wrote Luke, Mark wrote His to the Greeks, Matthew aka Levi the tax collector, John the brother of James the sons of zabbee. This is what I believe..

 

[beta]

Let see your math

1) 24 hours, first 12h night, first 12h day. Thursday
2) 48 hours second 12h night' second 12h day. Friday
3) 72 hours third 12n night, third 12h day. Saturday.

4) Sunday's first 12 hours is night which begun at 6pm Saturday evening add up to 84 hours to the morning of Sunday the first day of the week.. can't be because that's falsely saying scripture meant more than three days beyond 72 hours

do you think there was a night during the first evening??

Anything after 6 pm Saturday evening is into the forth day beyond that 72 hour time line 3 days and three nights.
So that doesn't line up either because you have the resurrection well into the forth day beyond the 72 hours three days and three nights..

Hold on friend ! Who is counting sunday ???
Jesus was already risen by the time the women turned up at the tomb after sunset saturday.

You are getting ahead of yourself...I am counting 3 days and 3 nights from sunset wednesday to sunset saturday, for that fulfills Jesus prediction.

 

[beta]

I did not change anything. I just quoted it as it appears in the text.

sorry Sir - you changed the words from 'Jesus was risen to 'Jesus rose - big difference !

 

[oldhermit]

From the study's I've learned, Mark was the youngest of the four writers, Luke was a companion of Paul and wrote Luke, Mark wrote His to the Greeks, Matthew aka Levi the tax collector, John the brother of James the sons of zabbee. This is what I believe..

All true............

 

[beta]

you talk a lot yet show no time line yourself,, I ask you to show me, prove me wrong, show me how it works out.. Can you at least do that instead of saying a bunch of stuff..

I'm willing to work out the hours with you, are you willing to work it out as well.. Let me see how you would place the hours from when he died or buried either way don't matter.

Did I not do so in #245 ?
need more clarification ?