Not By Works

[phil36]

No one has denied this.....

FAITH and faith alone saves eternally
After a period of growth and maturity fruit will be produced...even if one piece
The fruit/works do not help one get saved and or keep one saved

EVEN a cup of cold water in the name of Jesus qualifies as fruit or works...............

WORKS are the result of salvation and do not complete salvation

Galatians 1, 3-->Faith plus works to finish salvation = a gospel of a different kind, no power to save and is double cursed....

I agree with your first part but fail to understand your last sentence.

It is only those of faith that can actually 'do' good works and it is commanded that we 'do' such. If those of faith are (good) workless, then it shines a light on their Faith. James states this perfectly "But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds." Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. (James 2:18).

Yes, we have liberty to do these good works, only because we have been free'd to do so, the fruit of the Spirit.

And yes I understand the solas. This is where confusion sets in.

1. We are not justified (regenerated) by good works. It is by grace through Faith.

2. Good works do not keep you saved, yet not to do 'good' works (which only the faithful can do) is disobedience. And you

3. We are not free'd to indulge the flesh, but to good works. (gal 5).


I understand there are those who believe that their works is what keeps them saved, or worse that saves them, this is wrong, but again we must not allow an over reaction to a wrong view to diminish what we are to do, ''Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds''. Good deed's are only by grace through faith in Christ, but yet ''we'' have to physically do them (whatever they may be--bible study, prayer, helping the old lady across the road)

Would it be better to use the word 'deeds' rather than 'works'

 

[DiscipleDave]

Originally Posted by FreeNChrist

Those who are living by faith in Jesus Christ are being obedient. We are the only ones who are.

AMEN to that........

Your Lord and Savior specifically said to us:

Joh_13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

Joh_15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

Joh_15:17 These things I command you, that ye love one another.

1Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

Those who DO what He COMMANDS, are they that OBEY Him. False doctrines teach that you can obey satan and live in sin, but as long as you have faith in Jesus, you are obedient to Him, even though you do NOT DO what He says.

Joh_14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Joh_14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

NOPE, not this generation, this generation believes that Faith in Jesus is obedience to Him, and you don't have to actually DO what Jesus commands us to do, Faith is enough. Faith in Jesus is obedience. Faith in Jesus is righteousness. Don't need to do what He says, don't need to do what He commands, Don't have to keep His Commandments. False doctrines that tickle the ears of all those who do not want to cease from sin.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[DiscipleDave]

Nothing you say carries any weight....you have already disqualified yourself in the past by claiming that JESUS would acknowledge you by your screen name on CC and use your words to judge the people who post on this site.....

so......really we have nothing to discuss....a man who claims to be a prophet.....and states the above about your CC name and Jesus referencing you on the day of judgment.....disqualifies anything you have to say and or your view man....

not happening!

i see you answered nothing, no surprise there. Disqualifies me according to what YOU believe. So be it. But my name, and many others, who have tried to show you the TRUTH, will indeed be brought up, for our words do not come back void. Even your name Brother, will be brought up to others when you have revealed TRUTH to them, that they have refused to believe. What then, am i evil because i also say your name will be brought up to those who would not listen to the TRUTH that you gave them? Love you Brother.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[DiscipleDave]

I would agree that once one is regenerated, Faith and works go hand in hand. Why wouldn't a Christian want to do good works? In fact we are free'd from the bondage of sin and given liberty in Christ to do so.

A monergistic work followed by synergistic.

Not to mention, Scriptures specifically instructs us to "Maintain Good Works" Woe to them who teach things contrary to Scriptures, Woe to them indeed. For they are not FOR Scriptures, but AGAINST them. Not FOR the TRUTH, but AGAINST the TRUTH.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[Angela53510]

When training a monkey scientists will have them do a difficult task to learn how to figure it out, the monkey will do the same thing over and over again however eventually he figures out that doing something different might change the outcome and boom the puzzle is solved. But we are evolved.......

Well, I don't believe in evolution. And monkey training is behaviour modification. Which means a series of rewards for doing whatever the scientists want to accomplish. So no, other than a few "likes" and "rep" comments, there is not much reward around here.

Besides, ain't no monkeys around here! And therefore, no movement on soteriology.

 

[DiscipleDave]

Originally Posted by phil36

I would agree that once one is regenerated, Faith and works go hand in hand. Why wouldn't a Christian want to do good works? In fact we are free'd from the bondage of sin and given liberty in Christ to do so.

A monergistic work followed by synergistic.

No one has denied this.....

FAITH and faith alone saves eternally
After a period of growth and maturity fruit will be produced...even if one piece
The fruit/works do not help one get saved and or keep one saved

EVEN a cup of cold water in the name of Jesus qualifies as fruit or works...............

WORKS are the result of salvation and do not complete salvation

Galatians 1, 3-->Faith plus works to finish salvation = a gospel of a different kind, no power to save and is double cursed....

All that you say here, is TRUE, which i 100% believe. The problem is though, which is where we disagree, is the bad fruits.

Scriptures teach, if a tree produces ONLY good fruits, that is a Good tree. So like you say above, even if it is only one fruit, that is Good. The problem is though, the bad fruits. It is the Bad fruits that make the tree a bad tree, regardless how many good fruits the tree produces, it will be cut down because that particular tree produces bad fruits. Scriptures teaches this, even though you will accuse me of teaching that, which you think is false, correct?

A good tree ONLY produces good fruits
A bad tree produces bad fruits and good fruits, it is still a bad tree, because of the bad fruits it produces.

So all that you say above is TRUE, But becomes totally different when you take into account the bad fruits.

A person may have only one good fruit after years and years of growing, but during those years and years of growing, how many times did they FAIL to Love One Another, which is a very bad fruit. Because Jesus commanded all His followers to Love One Another, to FAIL to do what He commanded us to do, is indeed a bad fruit. So that person who has one good fruit after years, how many bad fruits did that same tree produce prior to that? Now that is the question that needs addressing.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[DiscipleDave]

I have no problem loving people....but like Jesus and Paul....I despise false teachers and false teaching that leads people to hell.....

i also despise false teachers and false teaching that leads people to hell.. How do i know who is a false teacher? If what they say contradicts what the Word of God teaches. How do you know who is a false teacher? If what they say contradicts what YOU believe is the TRUTH. Is that not a TRUE statement?

You say and think i am false, and that my teaching is false, yet you have not even ONCE, showed anything that i have said to be false, not once. Now it is clear, that YOU think i am wrong, that YOU think i am false, but there is not one verse that backs up your accusation against me. Nor can you show even one verse that even implies what i teach is wrong or contrary to any verse in ALL of Scriptures. So then if you accuse me of being false, show the basis for that accusation, if you can't, then how is that not a false accusation against a Brother who lives, eats, and breathes, Jesus Christ?

Faith plus works = false gospel, no power to save and double cursed

So let me see if i am understanding you, you think i am false because i teach Faith and Works go hand in hand? So then according to YOUR OWN logic, the Apostle John must also be false. i teach what he taught, everyone consider what the Apostle JOHN taught and see if i am teaching the same thing he did, or something different.

1Jn 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. And this is his commandment, That we should (1) believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ,(Faith) AND (2) love one another, (Works) as he gave us commandment. And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

And because i teach the same exact thing the Apostle John did, does dcontroversal call me false. If then i teach exactly what the Apostle Paul teaches above, how am i false? He calls me false, because he does not agree with the Apostle John that it takes Faith and Works, (Believing and Loving One Another) the same that i teach as well. False doctrines are those that teach things CONTRARY to Scriptures. i believe Scriptures, dcontroversal you believe these verses are wrong. IF you believe they are TRUE, then why are you disagreeing with me, which is teaching nothing more than what the verse says, and not this verse only there are many verses which teach the exact same thing. Did you not post in a thread somewhere that you are upset that people do not believe verses and what they actually said, i even commented on that because i have found that in the past, you are NOT one to believe what the verses say and plainly teach, i even said that it was ironic that you started that thread concerning believing the verse and what it actually says. Will you practice that in the above verses, or are they something that needs to be interpreted away, because YOU do not agree with them, which is the same thing that i teach, whom you say is false.

Tell me i MOSTLY teach these things, which one does dcontroversal say is false?

A) Love One Another
B) Obey Jesus your Lord and Savior
C) Stop obeying His enemy the devil and living in sin
D) God spoke to me in the past
E) God revealed to me things that are going to come to pass (making me a prophet)

Which of these things that i teach, you think is false?

Oh wait, because i said my name and other names will be brought up on Judgment Day, this is the reason you think i am false. NOT because i adamantly teach for people to LOVE ONE ANOTHER, Not because i teach stop obeying the devil, Not because i teach sinning is evil, wicked, and the such, but you think i am false because i said this. seriously, is that all you have to go on to justify your own actions in saying that i am false, because i said my name and others will be brought up to you on Judgement Day, Seriously. May the Lord Judge you with the same merit you have judged me, and He will, you know, for that is also written, in the same way you judge others, YOU WILL BE JUDGED. You have judged me false, NOT because what i teach is contrary to the Word of God, but contrary to what YOU believe to be TRUE. So shall you be Judged as well.

Saying one can lose salvation is also false, denies verb tense, scripture in context, twists scripture out of context etc......

Scriptures teach that a person can be blotted out of the Book of Life? If that is True, and you believe Scriptures, how is that not SAVED, then removed? i will ask you two questions, which i already know you will not answer, and if you do, it will be an answer that redirects. Here they are.

If a person accept Jesus Christ as their Savior and Lord, they repent of their deed, they believe Jesus is the Son of God, they believe Jesus died on the cross for them, they believe Jesus was raised from the dead, they believe the preacher that told him/her "You are now Saved" Is that person Saved? YES or NO?

Two years later that person is raped, and 5 years after that, that person hates the rapist, will not ever forgive that rapist, then that person dies hating, and not forgiving that person, is that person SAVED?

You see if you answered these questions honestly, you would then understand the TRUTH. That just because a person GETS SAVED, does not mean they will remain in that condition, nobody can make them leave, or force them to fall, but that person can indeed choose to leave, choose to fall away. Question 1. Scriptures plainly teaches that this person if that person believes all those things IS SAVED, for a FACT, and is the TRUTH. The preachers who said to that person "YOU ARE SAVED" did not lie, but indeed that person GOT SAVED. Now if that same person hates someone, and doesn't forgive another, Scriptures are Clear, those who Hate other, and do not forgive others will not be forgiven, nor enter into Heaven.

Third Question that should open your eyes to the TRUTH, if you will let it.

You claim to be SAVED right now, are you saying it is IMPOSSIBLE for you to (in the future) HATE someone?

Please answer Questions 1-3, if you do, then you will see the TRUTH, but if you refuse, then you refuse to see the TRUTH, and you desire to hold on to the doctrine that you believe instead of changing what you believe to line up with Scriptures. NO not this generation, this generation would much rather change Scriptures to line up with what they believe.

Let us see if you will answer these three questions or whatever else you are going to do.

Sorry if you take words on a page and read in motive and emotion that is not there!

it sounded mean to me, but who am i, i ain't nobody special. i put on my pants like you do, i live in this wretched world like you do. i am human, and have not yet been perfected, that will come at the end of the race.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[DiscipleDave]

Ooops! Wandered into yet another faith versus works thread.

And i am certain, God will continue to make them, as long as people continue to believe false doctrines, you agree?

And, I don't see anything different from all the other threads on CC. The same people, the same Scripture verses thrown back and forth, and the same arguments.

Are you suggesting that NOBODY come against false teachings?

And yet, not one single person has changed their beliefs, nor probably their actions and behaviour.

Now this i totally understand, i feel the same way. In one of my conversations with God, He told me this generation would not receive what He has told me, that this generation would reject it. i even asked Him "Why then do you want me to teach them, if you already know they will not believe it" He then told me so they will not have a cloak for their sins, they will not be able to plead ignorance, that they did not know the TRUTH, when they stand before me on that Day.
So i teach what He has told me, already knowing this generation will not believe it at all. But i do what i am called to do, and that is to teach those things He has told me to teach, that i do, and it pleases Him.

I wish people would give it a rest, and move on from justification, and find some agreement in how we are sanctified! Which does entail both obedience and works that the Holy Spirit directs us to do.

It is written to be of one mind, to think the same thing. This generation is so divided it is sickening. We have over 120 different denominations, hundreds of false doctrines, lots of DO's and DON'Ts.
There is only one Truth, and what God told me, is the TRUTH. What i teach is what God told me. i am a messenger. But lo, how the messenger is attacked for what he teaches. If you do not believe me and what i teach, you don't disagree with me, but disagree with Him who told me these things, and that is God.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[DiscipleDave]

Who can Love Us better than God can? no one

And we are to LOVE OTHERS, as God loved us, as it is written.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[dcontroversal]

I agree with your first part but fail to understand your last sentence.

It is only those of faith that can actually 'do' good works and it is commanded that we 'do' such. If those of faith are (good) workless, then it shines a light on their Faith. James states this perfectly "But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds." Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. (James 2:18).

Yes, we have liberty to do these good works, only because we have been free'd to do so, the fruit of the Spirit.

And yes I understand the solas. This is where confusion sets in.

1. We are not justified (regenerated) by good works. It is by grace through Faith.

2. Good works do not keep you saved, yet not to do 'good' works (which only the faithful can do) is disobedience. And you

3. We are not free'd to indulge the flesh, but to good works. (gal 5).


I understand there are those who believe that their works is what keeps them saved, or worse that saves them, this is wrong, but again we must not allow an over reaction to a wrong view to diminish what we are to do, ''Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds''. Good deed's are only by grace through faith in Christ, but yet ''we'' have to physically do them (whatever they may be--bible study, prayer, helping the old lady across the road)

Would it be better to use the word 'deeds' rather than 'works'

the last statement is based upon Galatians chapters 1 and 3.....Paul calls them foolish because they erroneously believed that their salvation was begun in the spirit and then made complete by the works......this is false...salvation stand alone entirely based upon faith into the finished work of JESUS.......and indeed James is taken out of context to prove an erroneous teaching...the bible is clear...

Romans-->PAUL-->we are justified before GOD (rendered innocent) by faith void of works
James-->Our inward, invisible faith that saves eternally can be SEEN by MEN based upon our "deeds"

there is no contradiction......

 

[dcontroversal]

Your Lord and Savior specifically said to us:

Joh_13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

Joh_15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

Joh_15:17 These things I command you, that ye love one another.

1Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

Those who DO what He COMMANDS, are they that OBEY Him. False doctrines teach that you can obey satan and live in sin, but as long as you have faith in Jesus, you are obedient to Him, even though you do NOT DO what He says.

Joh_14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Joh_14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

NOPE, not this generation, this generation believes that Faith in Jesus is obedience to Him, and you don't have to actually DO what Jesus commands us to do, Faith is enough. Faith in Jesus is obedience. Faith in Jesus is righteousness. Don't need to do what He says, don't need to do what He commands, Don't have to keep His Commandments. False doctrines that tickle the ears of all those who do not want to cease from sin.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

DAVE...this thread is about saving faith void of works....keep your sinless rigmarole out.....the bible is clear concerning sin and believers.....only one was without it.....Jesus!

 

[dcontroversal]

Not to mention, Scriptures specifically instructs us to "Maintain Good Works" Woe to them who teach things contrary to Scriptures, Woe to them indeed. For they are not FOR Scriptures, but AGAINST them. Not FOR the TRUTH, but AGAINST the TRUTH.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

Seeing how nobody has said that or taught that the points above are moot.....!

 

[dcontroversal]

All that you say here, is TRUE, which i 100% believe. The problem is though, which is where we disagree, is the bad fruits.

Scriptures teach, if a tree produces ONLY good fruits, that is a Good tree. So like you say above, even if it is only one fruit, that is Good. The problem is though, the bad fruits. It is the Bad fruits that make the tree a bad tree, regardless how many good fruits the tree produces, it will be cut down because that particular tree produces bad fruits. Scriptures teaches this, even though you will accuse me of teaching that, which you think is false, correct?

A good tree ONLY produces good fruits
A bad tree produces bad fruits and good fruits, it is still a bad tree, because of the bad fruits it produces.

So all that you say above is TRUE, But becomes totally different when you take into account the bad fruits.

A person may have only one good fruit after years and years of growing, but during those years and years of growing, how many times did they FAIL to Love One Another, which is a very bad fruit. Because Jesus commanded all His followers to Love One Another, to FAIL to do what He commanded us to do, is indeed a bad fruit. So that person who has one good fruit after years, how many bad fruits did that same tree produce prior to that? Now that is the question that needs addressing.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

Not even going to argue...believers can have works of wood, hay and stubble, some are cut loose for the destruction of the flesh and even faithful believers like DAVID committed grievous sins like murder.......and were FORGIVEN although they paid the price physically......!

 

[followjesus]

I agree with your first part but fail to understand your last sentence.

It is only those of faith that can actually 'do' good works and it is commanded that we 'do' such. If those of faith are (good) workless, then it shines a light on their Faith. James states this perfectly "But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds." Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. (James 2:18).

Yes, we have liberty to do these good works, only because we have been free'd to do so, the fruit of the Spirit.

And yes I understand the solas. This is where confusion sets in.

1. We are not justified (regenerated) by good works. It is by grace through Faith.

2. Good works do not keep you saved, yet not to do 'good' works (which only the faithful can do) is disobedience. And you

3. We are not free'd to indulge the flesh, but to good works. (gal 5).


I understand there are those who believe that their works is what keeps them saved, or worse that saves them, this is wrong, but again we must not allow an over reaction to a wrong view to diminish what we are to do, ''Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds''. Good deed's are only by grace through faith in Christ, but yet ''we'' have to physically do them (whatever they may be--bible study, prayer, helping the old lady across the road)

Would it be better to use the word 'deeds' rather than 'works'

hebrews 6:1-3 "Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, 2Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. 3And this will we do, if God permit.....

 

[samuel23]

Some time I would like to know what people mean by good fruit and bad fruit. It is obvious that if a person is hungry and you feed them, that you have done a good deed, and also if that same person were hungry and you could have feed then, but you chose not to, that would be a bad deed. How about people who come on forums and teach other folks false doctrine? Is that bad fruit? I think that it is the worse kind of rotten fruit. I see no problem with faith and works, we are justified by faith but if it is the kind of faith that will save us then it will produce good works of some kind.

 

[PeterJens]

The above bolded is false....not only do you lack understanding, but you also fail to tell the truth on a regular basis...

The rest of what you said....has little value!

dc - All I read is you conversing with EG and others about how you put ws
is their place.

I do not lack anything, in fact I know this tactic and its fallacy from the beginning.

And I am not looking for compliments from you. It is obvious you regard yourself
as Gods rebuker, but it does not work when you fail to understand others expressions.

May God open your eyes to you own ways.

 

[dcontroversal]

i also despise false teachers and false teaching that leads people to hell.. How do i know who is a false teacher? If what they say contradicts what the Word of God teaches. How do you know who is a false teacher? If what they say contradicts what YOU believe is the TRUTH. Is that not a TRUE statement?

You say and think i am false, and that my teaching is false, yet you have not even ONCE, showed anything that i have said to be false, not once. Now it is clear, that YOU think i am wrong, that YOU think i am false, but there is not one verse that backs up your accusation against me. Nor can you show even one verse that even implies what i teach is wrong or contrary to any verse in ALL of Scriptures. So then if you accuse me of being false, show the basis for that accusation, if you can't, then how is that not a false accusation against a Brother who lives, eats, and breathes, Jesus Christ?



So let me see if i am understanding you, you think i am false because i teach Faith and Works go hand in hand? So then according to YOUR OWN logic, the Apostle John must also be false. i teach what he taught, everyone consider what the Apostle JOHN taught and see if i am teaching the same thing he did, or something different.

1Jn 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. And this is his commandment, That we should (1) believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ,(Faith) AND (2) love one another, (Works) as he gave us commandment. And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

And because i teach the same exact thing the Apostle John did, does dcontroversal call me false. If then i teach exactly what the Apostle Paul teaches above, how am i false? He calls me false, because he does not agree with the Apostle John that it takes Faith and Works, (Believing and Loving One Another) the same that i teach as well. False doctrines are those that teach things CONTRARY to Scriptures. i believe Scriptures, dcontroversal you believe these verses are wrong. IF you believe they are TRUE, then why are you disagreeing with me, which is teaching nothing more than what the verse says, and not this verse only there are many verses which teach the exact same thing. Did you not post in a thread somewhere that you are upset that people do not believe verses and what they actually said, i even commented on that because i have found that in the past, you are NOT one to believe what the verses say and plainly teach, i even said that it was ironic that you started that thread concerning believing the verse and what it actually says. Will you practice that in the above verses, or are they something that needs to be interpreted away, because YOU do not agree with them, which is the same thing that i teach, whom you say is false.

Tell me i MOSTLY teach these things, which one does dcontroversal say is false?

A) Love One Another
B) Obey Jesus your Lord and Savior
C) Stop obeying His enemy the devil and living in sin
D) God spoke to me in the past
E) God revealed to me things that are going to come to pass (making me a prophet)

Which of these things that i teach, you think is false?

Oh wait, because i said my name and other names will be brought up on Judgment Day, this is the reason you think i am false. NOT because i adamantly teach for people to LOVE ONE ANOTHER, Not because i teach stop obeying the devil, Not because i teach sinning is evil, wicked, and the such, but you think i am false because i said this. seriously, is that all you have to go on to justify your own actions in saying that i am false, because i said my name and others will be brought up to you on Judgement Day, Seriously. May the Lord Judge you with the same merit you have judged me, and He will, you know, for that is also written, in the same way you judge others, YOU WILL BE JUDGED. You have judged me false, NOT because what i teach is contrary to the Word of God, but contrary to what YOU believe to be TRUE. So shall you be Judged as well.



Scriptures teach that a person can be blotted out of the Book of Life? If that is True, and you believe Scriptures, how is that not SAVED, then removed? i will ask you two questions, which i already know you will not answer, and if you do, it will be an answer that redirects. Here they are.

If a person accept Jesus Christ as their Savior and Lord, they repent of their deed, they believe Jesus is the Son of God, they believe Jesus died on the cross for them, they believe Jesus was raised from the dead, they believe the preacher that told him/her "You are now Saved" Is that person Saved? YES or NO?

Two years later that person is raped, and 5 years after that, that person hates the rapist, will not ever forgive that rapist, then that person dies hating, and not forgiving that person, is that person SAVED?

You see if you answered these questions honestly, you would then understand the TRUTH. That just because a person GETS SAVED, does not mean they will remain in that condition, nobody can make them leave, or force them to fall, but that person can indeed choose to leave, choose to fall away. Question 1. Scriptures plainly teaches that this person if that person believes all those things IS SAVED, for a FACT, and is the TRUTH. The preachers who said to that person "YOU ARE SAVED" did not lie, but indeed that person GOT SAVED. Now if that same person hates someone, and doesn't forgive another, Scriptures are Clear, those who Hate other, and do not forgive others will not be forgiven, nor enter into Heaven.

Third Question that should open your eyes to the TRUTH, if you will let it.

You claim to be SAVED right now, are you saying it is IMPOSSIBLE for you to (in the future) HATE someone?

Please answer Questions 1-3, if you do, then you will see the TRUTH, but if you refuse, then you refuse to see the TRUTH, and you desire to hold on to the doctrine that you believe instead of changing what you believe to line up with Scriptures. NO not this generation, this generation would much rather change Scriptures to line up with what they believe.

Let us see if you will answer these three questions or whatever else you are going to do.



it sounded mean to me, but who am i, i ain't nobody special. i put on my pants like you do, i live in this wretched world like you do. i am human, and have not yet been perfected, that will come at the end of the race.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

Faith PLUS works for salvation is false-->Galatians 1 and 3 teaches this..

Only those who reject Christ are blotted out...the bible is clear, eternal security applied to a believer is emphatically laid out in the scripture

Hating one's actions is not necessarily indicative of hating the person himself....!

and the above scenario is irrelevant.....and has NO bearing on the truth!

 

[dcontroversal]

dc - All I read is you conversing with EG and others about how you put ws
is their place.

I do not lack anything, in fact I know this tactic and its fallacy from the beginning.

And I am not looking for compliments from you. It is obvious you regard yourself
as Gods rebuker, but it does not work when you fail to understand others expressions.

May God open your eyes to you own ways.

Not hardly pal........again attributing motive which you have no authority to judge!

 

[PeterJens]

Not hardly pal........again attributing motive which you have no authority to judge!

I think your response is itself an indication of your attitude.
How can you decide whether I can make an observation or not?

You decided I believed is ws, and have continued down this path,
when clearly I do not have this view.

So other than your own bias, where is your evidence?

Your group love this getting together to say how bad so so is believing
they way they do etc.

My approach is if you believe in Christ amen, that is a good first step.
How far you get down the road is up to the individual, but you seemed
determined to discourage and condemn people you label a particular way
even though you make bid mistakes in both evidence and style of response.

How is your contribution helping me see more of the love of Christ on the cross
and how it humbles my heart in adoration and praise, because that every day
is my strength and witness, Praise the Lord, and Amen.

 

[phil36]

the last statement is based upon Galatians chapters 1 and 3.....Paul calls them foolish because they erroneously believed that their salvation was begun in the spirit and then made complete by the works......this is false...salvation stand alone entirely based upon faith into the finished work of JESUS.......and indeed James is taken out of context to prove an erroneous teaching...the bible is clear...

Romans-->PAUL-->we are justified before GOD (rendered innocent) by faith void of works
James-->Our inward, invisible faith that saves eternally can be SEEN by MEN based upon our "deeds"

there is no contradiction......

Paul was referring to those who were going back to 'works of the law'. He is not talking about 'good works' that only one bearing fruit can 'do'.

But here is what you actually said:

Galatians 1, 3-->Faith plus works to finish salvation = a gospel of a different kind, no power to save and is double cursed....

If you mean that Faith + works righteousness does not save any one then yes I agree. I have already stated my belief on that.. By grace alone, through Faith alone, in Christ alone.

As I said, I agree with most of what you say, I believe your problem is that you fail to differentiate between any sort of work or deed. You think that when I say we need to be doing good work's/deed's that I am referring to my own power for salvation. that is wrong.. Again I don't see how you think I am taking James out of context.

Faith without deed's is a dead faith. I also know there are others who think faith and works go hand in hand for regeneration, this is wrong and unscriptural. Only Jesus can save, and once we are saved, even our good deed's don't save...However the changed man will do good deed's.. If he doesn't that faith may be a dead faith for there is no obedience..that is exactly Jame's point.

I have just 2 questions to illustrate a further point

1. Who does your good deed's ?

2. when you sin, who is doing that?


Oh BTW DiscipleDave if your reading this, the above 2 questions answers your erroneous bad tree/good tree analogy. Those who are saved are ''good trees' that bear good fruit by the power of the Holy Spirit, and yet by the very nature of man we still have the remnant of the Old sin nature, that's what we fight (Flesh). A bad tree can 'only' bear bad fruit, meaning it is evil. A good tree can only bear good fruit because it is 'Good', it may have mishapen branches and some fruit goes bad, but it is at it essence Good.. The bad tree is always evil.

If we read some of these posts, people seem to be saying..it's the Holy Spirit doing all the work, when its Good, and then say when its sin it's the flesh... no one seems to realise that you are one man. not and idle sofa sitter spectating a good and evil battle going on as you watch the latest film. Stand firm and do!

The Holy Spirit enables you and prompts you to do good deeds; you intellectually and physically still have to do them. and it is all by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ only!

The scriptural warning is that faith without works is a dead faith! It seems that people don't like to be obedient to anyone, because that sounds like works!! and others seem to think their obedience saves them, work righteousness.