Not By Works

[dcontroversal]

Paul was referring to those who were going back to 'works of the law'. He is not talking about 'good works' that only one bearing fruit can 'do'.

But here is what you actually said:



If you mean that Faith + works righteousness does not save any one then yes I agree. I have already stated my belief on that.. By grace alone, through Faith alone, in Christ alone.

As I said, I agree with most of what you say, I believe your problem is that you fail to differentiate between any sort of work or deed. You think that when I say we need to be doing good work's/deed's that I am referring to my own power for salvation. that is wrong.. Again I don't see how you think I am taking James out of context.

Faith without deed's is a dead faith. I also know there are others who think faith and works go hand in hand for regeneration, this is wrong and unscriptural. Only Jesus can save, and once we are saved, even our good deed's don't save...However the changed man will do good deed's.. If he doesn't that faith may be a dead faith for there is no obedience..that is exactly Jame's point.

I have just 2 questions to illustrate a further point

1. Who does your good deed's ?

2. when you sin, who is doing that?


Oh BTW DiscipleDave if your reading this, the above 2 questions answers your erroneous bad tree/good tree analogy. Those who are saved are ''good trees' that bear good fruit by the power of the Holy Spirit, and yet by the very nature of man we still have the remnant of the Old sin nature, that's what we fight (Flesh). A bad tree can 'only' bear bad fruit, meaning it is evil. A good tree can only bear good fruit because it is 'Good', it may have mishapen branches and some fruit goes bad, but it is at it essence Good.. The bad tree is always evil.

If we read some of these posts, people seem to be saying..it's the Holy Spirit doing all the work, when its Good, and then say when its sin it's the flesh... no one seems to realise that you are one man. not and idle sofa sitter spectating a good and evil battle going on as you watch the latest film. Stand firm and do!

The Holy Spirit enables you and prompts you to do good deeds; you intellectually and physically still have to do them. and it is all by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ only!

The scriptural warning is that faith without works is a dead faith! It seems that people don't like to be obedient to anyone, because that sounds like works!! and others seem to think their obedience saves them, work righteousness.

Seriously.....think about this for a moment....

NONE good NO NOT ONE, There is NOT a just man on the earth that does GOOD and sins not....

If the works of the law will not help one be saved.....you can bet that the works of the flesh which are not GOOD will not help one be saved......

WORKS are WORKS are WORKS.....they will not facilitate, help or add to one's salvation that they ALREADY possess by FAITH.......YOU or I cannot EMBELLISH our salvation and or HELP in our SALVATION....that is entirely the WORK of JESUS!

 

[phil36]

Seriously.....think about this for a moment....

NONE good NO NOT ONE, There is NOT a just man on the earth that does GOOD and sins not....

If the works of the law will not help one be saved.....you can bet that the works of the flesh which are not GOOD will not help one be saved......

WORKS are WORKS are WORKS.....they will not facilitate, help or add to one's salvation that they ALREADY possess by FAITH.......YOU or I cannot EMBELLISH our salvation and or HELP in our SALVATION....that is entirely the WORK of JESUS!

Hi DC,

Where have I stated that works of the law are done by christians and it is good. I think you need to take a break from this thread as you are now arguing with eople who basically agree with you, because you are frightened of the word 'works/deeds. Neither have I stated that we 'embellish our salvation... and did you not read my words above - by grace alone, through Faith alone, in Christ alone.

And yet you cannot seem to differentiate between 'works of the law/Self righteousness' and deeds/works done by the faithful.

In reference to your second sentence - When Paul is talking about there is none good, no one seeks God - he is referring to the unregenerate, not the saved.

Again can you explain why Scripture gives us a very serious warning.. that faith without deed's/works is a dead faith.. are they the works you are referring to?

When you 'put sin to death' is it not synergistic? (referring to the already saved), or do you just sit on the couch eating potato chips while the Holy Spirit does everything for you? Our Sanctification is a synergistic work, again only by grace, through Faith (alone).

If a work or deed is born out of love it is not a work of the law DC, this is the point you cannot get your head around. My advice for you would be to take a break from this thread and have a good think over these issues rather than seeing 'work of law' everywhere.

 

[Seohce]

Faith PLUS works for salvation is false-->Galatians 1 and 3 teaches this..

Only those who reject Christ are blotted out...the bible is clear, eternal security applied to a believer is emphatically laid out in the scripture

Hating one's actions is not necessarily indicative of hating the person himself....!

and the above scenario is irrelevant.....and has NO bearing on the truth!

Proverbs 9:7-10 “Whoever corrects a mocker invites insult; whoever rebukes a wicked man incurs abuse. Do not rebuke a mocker or he will hate you; rebuke a wise man and he will love you. Instruct a wise man and he will be wiser still; teach a righteous man and he will add to his learning. “The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, and knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.
Matthew 7:25-27 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.”

 

[JIMBO43]

Originally Posted by JIMBO43

I have read your beliefs and your website. You believe in recarnation of the spirit into an earthly Body as so do i.

And your reason for bringing this up?.

Well it seems that Adam was without life until God breathed in his Nostrils. My reason is works and your works i want to understand your works.

Originally Posted by JIMBO43

You have allready pointed out on your website that where there is less chance of temptation such as a person who lives in a country house in the middle of nowhere he is less like to commit sin.

i do not recall saying that anywhere. Please quote what i actually said, thanks.

Sorry if i got you all wrong

Please quote what i actually said. A single person stranded on an island is less likely to sin as much as a person who lives in a city. i am not saying nor suggesting, they are not tempted. satan will tempt a person stranded on that island to commit sin also, only saying there is not much he is going to be tempted by, if there is NOTHING there to tempt him, NO TV, NO people, NO drugs, NO alcohol, Much less temptations. Please quote what i actually said. Thanks.

These words are bad works it encourages people to flee from sin instead of fighting it head on.



P

lease start a thread on this topic if you would like to discuss it. This Thread pertains to Works.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave.

Why should i start a new thread when theese are your works

 

[JIMBO43]

Hi DC,

Where have I stated that works of the law are done by christians and it is good. I think you need to take a break from this thread as you are now arguing with eople who basically agree with you, because you are frightened of the word 'works/deeds. Neither have I stated that we 'embellish our salvation... and did you not read my words above - by grace alone, through Faith alone, in Christ alone.

And yet you cannot seem to differentiate between 'works of the law/Self righteousness' and deeds/works done by the faithful.

In reference to your second sentence - When Paul is talking about there is none good, no one seeks God - he is referring to the unregenerate, not the saved.

Again can you explain why Scripture gives us a very serious warning.. that faith without deed's/works is a dead faith.. are they the works you are referring to?

When you 'put sin to death' is it not synergistic? (referring to the already saved), or do you just sit on the couch eating potato chips while the Holy Spirit does everything for you? Our Sanctification is a synergistic work, again only by grace, through Faith (alone).

If a work or deed is born out of love it is not a work of the law DC, this is the point you cannot get your head around. My advice for you would be to take a break from this thread and have a good think over these issues rather than seeing 'work of law' everywhere.

Even if he does see works of the law in people he has every right to debate where as you have no right to tell him not to.

Free will is free will.

 

[JIMBO43]

Proverbs 9:7-10 “Whoever corrects a mocker invites insult; whoever rebukes a wicked man incurs abuse. Do not rebuke a mocker or he will hate you; rebuke a wise man and he will love you. Instruct a wise man and he will be wiser still; teach a righteous man and he will add to his learning. “The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, and knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.
Matthew 7:25-27 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.”

This scripture you posted is of the highest mockery in the world... not only are you posting scripture for a selfish ambition to curse you are defiling gods name by doing as such.

theese are bad works of the flesh,,,,,,, my advice is go and have a wash

 

[Seohce]

This scripture you posted is of the highest mockery in the world... not only are you posting scripture for a selfish ambition to curse you are defiling gods name by doing as such.

theese are bad works of the flesh,,,,,,, my advice is go and have a wash

New International Version 1984 2 Corinthians 11:13-15 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.

 

[JIMBO43]

New International Version 1984 2 Corinthians 11:13-15 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.

i think your hiding behind scripture, why dont you just tell us all to go to hell

 

[Grandpa]

i think your hiding behind scripture, why dont you just tell us all to go to hell

Easy....

Tap the brakes...

 

[dcontroversal]

Ooops! Wandered into yet another faith versus works thread.

And, I don't see anything different from all the other threads on CC. The same people, the same Scripture verses thrown back and forth, and the same arguments.

And yet, not one single person has changed their beliefs, nor probably their actions and behaviour.

I wish people would give it a rest, and move on from justification, and find some agreement in how we are sanctified! Which does entail both obedience and works that the Holy Spirit directs us to do.

I find that hard to believe.......and your condescending remarks are below you!

 

[dcontroversal]

Hi DC,

Where have I stated that works of the law are done by christians and it is good. I think you need to take a break from this thread as you are now arguing with eople who basically agree with you, because you are frightened of the word 'works/deeds. Neither have I stated that we 'embellish our salvation... and did you not read my words above - by grace alone, through Faith alone, in Christ alone.

And yet you cannot seem to differentiate between 'works of the law/Self righteousness' and deeds/works done by the faithful.

In reference to your second sentence - When Paul is talking about there is none good, no one seeks God - he is referring to the unregenerate, not the saved.

Again can you explain why Scripture gives us a very serious warning.. that faith without deed's/works is a dead faith.. are they the works you are referring to?

When you 'put sin to death' is it not synergistic? (referring to the already saved), or do you just sit on the couch eating potato chips while the Holy Spirit does everything for you? Our Sanctification is a synergistic work, again only by grace, through Faith (alone).

If a work or deed is born out of love it is not a work of the law DC, this is the point you cannot get your head around. My advice for you would be to take a break from this thread and have a good think over these issues rather than seeing 'work of law' everywhere.

Again, works are works are works....there is NO WORK, regardless of source that will merit salvation.....and that is the point .....as far as the bolded above....NOT hardly....I understand fully where works, deeds and fruit come into play....ONE cannot produce anything unless one is already alive and in the vine......

FAITH alone saves eternally
Faith alone Justifies eternally
Faith alone sanctifies (positionally) in Christ eternally
Faith alone SEALS one by the Holy Spirit Eternally

The fruit comes after growth and maturity.....and even 1 (one) piece of fruit proves what type of tree it is.......

ANYWAY.....Not only is it rude to tell one to take a break from a particular thread, at the end of the day....it is completely uncalled for and NOYB!

 

[phil36]

Again, works are works are works....there is NO WORK, regardless of source that will merit salvation.....and that is the point .....as far as the bolded above....NOT hardly....I understand fully where works, deeds and fruit come into play....ONE cannot produce anything unless one is already alive and in the vine......

FAITH alone saves eternally
Faith alone Justifies eternally
Faith alone sanctifies (positionally) in Christ eternally
Faith alone SEALS one by the Holy Spirit Eternally

The fruit comes after growth and maturity.....and even 1 (one) piece of fruit proves what type of tree it is.......

ANYWAY.....Not only is it rude to tell one to take a break from a particular thread, at the end of the day....it is completely uncalled for and NOYB!

Hi DC,

I am sorry if I offended you, but I mean't in a kind and caring way, we all can get to involved in debate and miss the forest for the tree...trust me I Know. You were arguing with me and I was basically agreeing with you! Again, I have not said that 'works save', I said that you cannot differentiate between 'works that are s filthy rags', 'works of the Law' and 'works/deeds' that only Faith can produce'.

I'll say it again, By grace alone , through Faith alone, in Christ alone. And I can also agree with James that Faith without deed's is a dead Faith.

You don't nee to be frightened of doing good deed's/works, your salvation rests in Christ.

 

[dcontroversal]

Hi DC,

I am sorry if I offended you, but I mean't in a kind and caring way, we all can get to involved in debate and miss the forest for the tree...trust me I Know. You were arguing with me and I was basically agreeing with you! Again, I have not said that 'works save', I said that you cannot differentiate between 'works that are s filthy rags', 'works of the Law' and 'works/deeds' that only Faith can produce'.

I'll say it again, By grace alone , through Faith alone, in Christ alone. And I can also agree with James that Faith without deed's is a dead Faith.

You don't nee to be frightened of doing good deed's/works, your salvation rests in Christ.

No biggie mate and I am not frightened of doing deeds/works that are biblical.....on the contrary....I take great pleasure in doing things that are biblical.....and would list them if not for the fact of boasting before men.........all I know is there are numerous scriptures that state emphatically that the works of the law, good deeds, works of any sort do not save and or help keep one saved....they are the results of the salvation that one already possesses in Christ......

We are dealing with the eternal destiny of men and women....and Paul called the Galatian Assembly foolish for thinking that their salvation began based upon faith and the spirit and then was made complete or finished due to works.....

The only work that matters was the works of Christ on our behalf, and at the end of the day...good deeds, works of righteousness, fruit being produced is the result of Christ in us as a living sacrifice....It is JESUS doing the work through us....just like the root pulls all nutrients and moisture from the ground and pushes it through the vine to produce fruit.....

It is all about JESUS and no one has the right to boast.....it will be a tragic day when MANY (the word means plenteous in number) come before JESUS claiming that they know him, and claiming their right to enter his kingdom based upon the many wonderful works they have done....HE states that he NEVER KNEW THEM which means they WERE NEVER SAVED, yet they believed they were based upon the WORKS that they were doing.....

I can only conclude (based upon Galatians) and other verses that they had blended faith and works which is a gospel of a different kind, one that has no power to save and is double cursed......That is why I emphatically oppose this false working for salvation pseudo gospel.....because it is a different door than the one JESUS gave....

Anyway....peace bro...no harm, no foul.....I appreciate your attitude and apologize if I responded in a way that set forth heat and attitude!

 

[Enow]

Titus 3:[SUP]4 [/SUP]But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,[SUP]5 [/SUP]Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;[SUP]6 [/SUP]Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;[SUP]7 [/SUP]That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.[SUP]8[/SUP]This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

Ephesians 2:[SUP]8 [/SUP]For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:[SUP]9 [/SUP]Not of works, lest any man should boast.[SUP]10 [/SUP]For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Good works are about trusting Jesus Christ as our Good Shepherd to enable us to be good and do good in following Him. It is not for salvation, but for abiding in Him as His disciples so that we may bear fruit & our joy may be full.

1 John 3:[SUP]22 [/SUP]And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.[SUP]23 [/SUP]And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.[SUP]24 [/SUP]And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

The consequences for sowing to the flesh in defiling the temple of God cannot be ignored; as salvation cannot be lost, but not abiding in Him by works that deny Him, will deny the saved unrepentant believer his seat at the table of the Marriage Supper.

Galatians 5:13For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.

Galatians 6:[SUP]7 [/SUP]Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.[SUP]8 [/SUP]For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

2 Peter 2:[SUP]17 [/SUP]These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.[SUP]18 [/SUP]For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.[SUP]19 [/SUP]While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.[SUP]20 [/SUP]For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.[SUP]21 [/SUP]For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

So our works of what we have built on that foundation will be judged. Works by faith in Jesus Christ as the author & finisher of our faith where the fruits of righteousness comes from or works of the flesh where defiling the temple of God comes from.

1 Corinthians 3:[SUP]10 [/SUP]According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.[SUP]11 [/SUP]For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.[SUP]12 [/SUP]Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;[SUP]13 [/SUP]Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.[SUP]14 [/SUP]If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.[SUP]15 [/SUP]If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.[SUP]16 [/SUP]Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?[SUP]17 [/SUP]If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

1 Corinthians 6:[SUP]19 [/SUP]What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?[SUP]20 [/SUP]For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

So there is a casting off at the Marriage Supper as the purpose of excommunication by the church can be seen by God.

1 Corinthians 5:[SUP]4 [/SUP]In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,[SUP]5 [/SUP]To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

An example of a church warned to repent or else be left behind where physical death will result in the saving of the soul in Christ Jesus since that foundation remains & His seal cannot be removed.

Revelation 2:[SUP]18 [/SUP]And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass;[SUP]19 [/SUP]I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.[SUP]20 [/SUP]Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.[SUP]21 [/SUP]And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.[SUP]22 [/SUP]Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.[SUP]23 [/SUP]And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.[SUP]24 [/SUP]But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.[SUP]25 [/SUP]But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

So that is how it is profitable to continue in good works by faith in Him rather than sowing to the works of the flesh, but it is not for salvation, for we run that race as saved believers by faith in Jesus Christ as our Good Shepherd to help us lay aside every weight & sin for He shall finish His work in us to His glory and for our praise at the Marriage Supper.

Hebrews 12:1Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,[SUP]2 [/SUP]Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

1 Corinthians 9:[SUP]24 [/SUP]Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.[SUP]25 [/SUP]And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.[SUP]26 [/SUP]I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:[SUP]27 [/SUP]But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

1 John 3:[SUP]3 [/SUP]And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.......[SUP]8 [/SUP]He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Romans 6:[SUP]12 [/SUP]Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.[SUP]13 [/SUP]Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.[SUP]14 [/SUP]For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Philippians 1:[SUP]6 [/SUP]Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:[SUP]7 [/SUP]Even as it is meet for me to think this of you all, because I have you in my heart; inasmuch as both in my bonds, and in the defence and confirmation of the gospel, ye all are partakers of my grace.[SUP]8 [/SUP]For God is my record, how greatly I long after you all in the bowels of Jesus Christ.[SUP]9 [/SUP]And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment;[SUP]10 [/SUP]That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ.[SUP]11 [/SUP]Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

2 Timothy 4:[SUP]18 [/SUP]And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Jude 1:[SUP]24 [/SUP]Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,[SUP]25 [/SUP]To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

So let us trust Him as our Savior that we are saved AND let us trust Him as our Good Shepherd to help us & enable us to follow Him for we can only live this reconciled relationship with God by faith in Jesus Christ. By the grace of Gd we have been saved through faith in Jesus Christ and by the grace of God by faith in Jesus Christ, go I. We have more reasons to praise Him in Heaven other than just being our Savior for He is our Good Shepherd too.

 

[Seohce]

i think your hiding behind scripture, why dont you just tell us all to go to hell

thank yòu bro for confirming that God(Word) is my refuge and wisdom & strength. I just wish that all would do the same, that everyone would speak TRUTHfully to his brothers using the truth of the scriptures rather than what is falsely called knowledge. God bless you bro

1 Timothy 6:20 Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to your care. Turn away from godless chatter and the opposing ideas of what is falsely called knowledge,

Hebrews 4:12-13 For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. Nothing in all creation is hidden from God’s sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account.

2 Timothy 3:15-17 and how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

1 Corinthians 2:13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.

John 8:32 Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

John 17:17 Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth.

Acts 20:29-30 I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them.

Romans 2:8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger.

Romans 9:1-2 God’s Sovereign Choice I speak the truth in Christ—I am not lying, my conscience confirms it in the Holy Spirit— I have great sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart.

2 Corinthians 4:2 Rather, we have renounced secret and shameful ways; we do not use deception, nor do we distort the word of God. On the contrary, by setting forth the truth plainly we commend ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God.

2 Corinthians 13:8 For we cannot do anything against the truth, but only for the truth.

Galatians 5:7-10 You were running a good race. Who cut in on you and kept you from obeying the truth? That kind of persuasion does not come from the one who calls you. “A little yeast works through the whole batch of dough.” I am confident in the Lord that you will take no other view. The one who is throwing you into confusion will pay the penalty, whoever he may be.

Ephesians 4:15 Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into him who is the Head, that is, Christ.

2 Thessalonians 2:10 and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.

2 Thessalonians 2:13 Stand Firm But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers loved by the Lord, because from the beginning God chose you to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth.


1 Timothy 2:4 who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.


2 Timothy 2:18 who have wandered away from the truth. They say that the resurrection has already taken place, and they destroy the faith of some.

2 Timothy 2:25 Those who oppose him he must gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth.

2 Timothy 3:7 always learning but never able to acknowledge the truth.

2 Timothy 4:4 They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.

1 Peter 1:22 Now that you have purified yourselves by obeying the truth so that you have sincere love for your brothers, love one another deeply, from the heart.

1 John 2:4 The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

John 6:63-66 The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life. Yet there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him. He went on to say, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled him.” From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.

Malachi 2:8-9,17 But you have turned from the way and by your teaching have caused many to stumble; you have violated the covenant with Levi,” says the Lord You have wearied the Lord with your words. “How have we wearied him?” you ask. By saying, “All who do evil are good in the eyes of the Lord, and he is pleased with them” or “Where is the God of justice?”

Malachi 3:13-18 “You have said harsh things against me,” says the Lord. “Yet you ask, ‘What have we said against you?’ “You have said, ‘It is futile to serve God. What did we gain by carrying out his requirements and going about like mourners before the Lord Almighty? But now we call the arrogant blessed. Certainly the evildoers prosper, and even those who challenge God escape.’” Then those who feared the Lord talked with each other, and the Lord listened and heard. A scroll of remembrance was written in his presence concerning those who feared the Lord and honored his name. “They will be mine,” says the Lord Almighty, “in the day when I make up my treasured possession. I will spare them, just as in compassion a man spares his son who serves him. And you will again see the distinction between the righteous and the wicked, between those WHO SERVE GOD and those WHO DO NOT.

SO WHAT IS THE TRUTH BASED ON THE SCRIPTURE?

"FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD"- JAMES 2:17-26

"FAITH WITHOUT LOVE IS NOTHING"- 1 COR 13:2 & 13

"FAITH WITHOUT HOPE IS NOT FAITH"- ROM 8:23-25, HEB 1;1

Even the devil believes that there is one God but was without love, obedience, hope, void of truth & humility.He disobeyed, boasted & rebelled against God. He was thrown out of heaven together with his followers/ servants because their works are evil. The first man Adam was made accdg to God's image of holiness & righteousness but he disobeyed God (sinned) w/c separated man from God and the
man died because the Spirit left him. The blood of our Lord Jesus Christ reconciled us to God & thru faith we receive back the Spirit & becomes alive but it is Christ(Spirit) living in us(born-again)who is working the good works in us.

IF THIS IS THE CASE, DO YOU NOT THROW AWAY YOUR SALVATION BY THROWING AWAY THE GOOD(RIGHTEOUSNESS)WORKS, THE WORKS OF SALVATION BY OUR SAVIOR WHO IS THE SAME YESTERDAY, TODAY & FOREVER. WOULD YOUR DISOBEDIENCE TO GOD NOT SEPARATE YOU FROM HIM WHO DID NOT SPARE HIS ONLY SON TO SAVE YOU. WOULD HE NOT SPARE YOU FOR BEING DISOBEDIENT TO HIS COMMANDS, FOR INSULTING THE HOLY SPIRIT & DECEIVING THE PEOPLE TO WHOM THE HOLY BLOOD WAS SHED FOR.

Oh how I love the TRUTH!!! MORE SCRIPTURAL TRUTH NEXT TIME. IT'S FREE & HIGHLY RECOMMENDED BRO. KEEP THE FAITH BASED IN THE TRUTH IN THE SCRIPTURE. IF IT'S NOT THERE, IT'S A LIE. "LET GOD BE TRUE AND EVERYONE A LIAR."

 

[JIMBO43]

thank yòu bro for confirming that God(Word) is my refuge and wisdom & strength. I just wish that all would do the same, that everyone would speak TRUTHfully to his brothers using the truth of the scriptures rather than what is falsely called knowledge. God bless you bro

1 Timothy 6:20 Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to your care. Turn away from godless chatter and the opposing ideas of what is falsely called knowledge,

Hebrews 4:12-13 For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. Nothing in all creation is hidden from God’s sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account.

2 Timothy 3:15-17 and how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

1 Corinthians 2:13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.

John 8:32 Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

John 17:17 Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth.

Acts 20:29-30 I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them.

Romans 2:8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger.

Romans 9:1-2 God’s Sovereign Choice I speak the truth in Christ—I am not lying, my conscience confirms it in the Holy Spirit— I have great sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart.

2 Corinthians 4:2 Rather, we have renounced secret and shameful ways; we do not use deception, nor do we distort the word of God. On the contrary, by setting forth the truth plainly we commend ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God.

2 Corinthians 13:8 For we cannot do anything against the truth, but only for the truth.

Galatians 5:7-10 You were running a good race. Who cut in on you and kept you from obeying the truth? That kind of persuasion does not come from the one who calls you. “A little yeast works through the whole batch of dough.” I am confident in the Lord that you will take no other view. The one who is throwing you into confusion will pay the penalty, whoever he may be.

Ephesians 4:15 Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into him who is the Head, that is, Christ.

2 Thessalonians 2:10 and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.

2 Thessalonians 2:13 Stand Firm But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers loved by the Lord, because from the beginning God chose you to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth.


1 Timothy 2:4 who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.


2 Timothy 2:18 who have wandered away from the truth. They say that the resurrection has already taken place, and they destroy the faith of some.

2 Timothy 2:25 Those who oppose him he must gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth.

2 Timothy 3:7 always learning but never able to acknowledge the truth.

2 Timothy 4:4 They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.

1 Peter 1:22 Now that you have purified yourselves by obeying the truth so that you have sincere love for your brothers, love one another deeply, from the heart.

1 John 2:4 The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

John 6:63-66 The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life. Yet there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him. He went on to say, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled him.” From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.

Malachi 2:8-9,17 But you have turned from the way and by your teaching have caused many to stumble; you have violated the covenant with Levi,” says the Lord You have wearied the Lord with your words. “How have we wearied him?” you ask. By saying, “All who do evil are good in the eyes of the Lord, and he is pleased with them” or “Where is the God of justice?”

Malachi 3:13-18 “You have said harsh things against me,” says the Lord. “Yet you ask, ‘What have we said against you?’ “You have said, ‘It is futile to serve God. What did we gain by carrying out his requirements and going about like mourners before the Lord Almighty? But now we call the arrogant blessed. Certainly the evildoers prosper, and even those who challenge God escape.’” Then those who feared the Lord talked with each other, and the Lord listened and heard. A scroll of remembrance was written in his presence concerning those who feared the Lord and honored his name. “They will be mine,” says the Lord Almighty, “in the day when I make up my treasured possession. I will spare them, just as in compassion a man spares his son who serves him. And you will again see the distinction between the righteous and the wicked, between those WHO SERVE GOD and those WHO DO NOT.

SO WHAT IS THE TRUTH BASED ON THE SCRIPTURE?

"FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD"- JAMES 2:17-26

"FAITH WITHOUT LOVE IS NOTHING"- 1 COR 13:2 & 13

"FAITH WITHOUT HOPE IS NOT FAITH"- ROM 8:23-25, HEB 1;1

Even the devil believes that there is one God but was without love, obedience, hope, void of truth & humility.He disobeyed, boasted & rebelled against God. He was thrown out of heaven together with his followers/ servants because their works are evil. The first man Adam was made accdg to God's image of holiness & righteousness but he disobeyed God (sinned) w/c separated man from God and the
man died because the Spirit left him. The blood of our Lord Jesus Christ reconciled us to God & thru faith we receive back the Spirit & becomes alive but it is Christ(Spirit) living in us(born-again)who is working the good works in us.

IF THIS IS THE CASE, DO YOU NOT THROW AWAY YOUR SALVATION BY THROWING AWAY THE GOOD(RIGHTEOUSNESS)WORKS, THE WORKS OF SALVATION BY OUR SAVIOR WHO IS THE SAME YESTERDAY, TODAY & FOREVER. WOULD YOUR DISOBEDIENCE TO GOD NOT SEPARATE YOU FROM HIM WHO DID NOT SPARE HIS ONLY SON TO SAVE YOU. WOULD HE NOT SPARE YOU FOR BEING DISOBEDIENT TO HIS COMMANDS, FOR INSULTING THE HOLY SPIRIT & DECEIVING THE PEOPLE TO WHOM THE HOLY BLOOD WAS SHED FOR.

Oh how I love the TRUTH!!! MORE SCRIPTURAL TRUTH NEXT TIME. IT'S FREE & HIGHLY RECOMMENDED BRO. KEEP THE FAITH BASED IN THE TRUTH IN THE SCRIPTURE. IF IT'S NOT THERE, IT'S A LIE. "LET GOD BE TRUE AND EVERYONE A LIAR."

Ok i do apolagise but when ever i see someone posting lake of fire scripture to get ther point acrosss it always makes me wonder if no1 they think ther God.
No 2 there a satanist cult trying to bring missery amongst christians.
No 3 They just want to condem you.
4 there hiding behind scripture which i feel i was quite leniant in your case.
5 they just like to argue.
6 there a troll.
7 they use hell tactics as a salvation tactic, (wrong in my book)
8 there genuinely concerned for our saftey. (but then time tells as many would say one warning is enough but we see a pattern emerging where most of there posts condems someone to hell. or puts them in a hell state of mind where they feel God no longer loves them. (the work of satan in my book).

Now going back to your post you have made good points but i think theres one scripture that is a bove the rest.
That is if you have faith as small as a mustard seed it can grow.

Why ? because belief starts with faith everything else follows and are all an expression of faith.

So in this case faith alone saves.

But correct your faith is not fully harnessed untill we see the fruits of faith.

 

[garee]

Now going back to your post you have made good points but i think theres one scripture that is a bove the rest.
That is if you have faith as small as a mustard seed it can grow.

Why ? because belief starts with faith everything else follows and are all an expression of faith.

So in this case faith alone saves.

But correct your faith is not fully harnessed until we see the fruits of faith.

Its not when we see the fruits or the blood but when he sees it. We walk by faith and not by sight.

I would offer. Yes Christ's faith alone, he alone is the one who did the all work necessary for us to have salvation, as a free gift..

Faith(Christ’s) without works would be consider dead just a body of flesh without the spirit essence of life

We are not saved by a work we can do, but are saved by the works of Christ according to His faith that works in the believer.

Having the correct person as to "whose faith" is first needed,(not of our own selves a gift of God )

The faith of Christ that works in us, it can grow from the size of a mustard seed as he increases the growth . He must increase we must decrease.

We can plant the incorruptible seed of God’s word and water it with the doctrines of God .But again he causes the increase

1Corinthians 3:7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

 

[JIMBO43]

Its not when we see the fruits or the blood but when he sees it. We walk by faith and not by sight.

i stand corrected your right.

I would offer. Yes Christ's faith alone, he alone is the one who did the all work necessary for us to have salvation, as a free gift...

Good but who plants the seed.

Faith(Christ’s) without works would be consider dead just a body of flesh without the spirit essence of life.

We are not saved by a work we can do, but are saved by the works of Christ according to His faith that works in the believer.

Having the correct person as to "whose faith" is first needed,(not of our own selves a gift of God )

The faith of Christ that works in us, it can grow from the size of a mustard seed as he increases the growth . He must increase we must decrease.

We can plant the incorruptible seed of God’s word and water it with the doctrines of God .But again he causes the increase

1Corinthians 3:7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

Yes its all about christ but is it faith that saves us or christ ? or christ plus faith,, christ being the works

 

[dcontroversal]

The thief on the cross...

1. Being put to death for murder and thievery
2. Had no church membership
3. Had no immersion
4. Had no works of righteousness

He simply...

1. Acknowledged his guilt<--admit your a sinner
2. Acknowledged the righteousness of Christ
3. Acknowledged the Lordship of Jesus and said REMEMEBER ME IN YOUR KINGDOM

Those who try to say this was salvation under the O.T. are ignorant of the fact that JESUS said the LAW and the PROPHETS were UNTIL JOHN....JOHN was long DEAD by the time this takes place and the disciples of JESUS had been identified as a CHURCH no less than 2 times in the present CONTEXT.

Funny thing....the Thief asks JESUS to remember him when he comes into his KINGDOM......

The "plenteous in number" that are cast from the presence of JESUS....
a. Brag of their works as a means of entry
b. Jesus said he NEVER KNEW THEM<---they were not saved and then lost it (which is impossible)

The simple answer....they attempted a different door than that which has been given....FAITH and FAITH ALONE!

 

[garee]

Yes its all about christ but is it faith that saves us or christ ? or christ plus faith,, christ being the works

It is faith as a work that saves us .We have his faith (the faith of God) working in us as the treasure in these what scripture calls earthen vessels but it cannot be of us if it is of Him. If it could we could have something to boast in.

2Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

But if we were to have the faith of (coming from) Christ which comes from hearing God in respect to our own self or others .
The scriptures inform us we would blaspheme (accrediting the work of one to another ) his holy name.

It becomes whose faith does the work needed to believe God? Jesus said in John6 it is the work of (coming from) God as that by which we can have faith in Him .Not of us

From my experience many do not accredit Christ, in God of having faith or needing it in order to create as our faithful Creator.

Again it becomes ours faith as a free gift as a new creation but is not of us.But is an imputed faith that comes from him

Jam 2:1 My brethren, have not the "faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory", with respect of persons.



Jam 2:7 Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?