Eternal Security You CANNOT lose your salvation! by David J. Stewart | January 2004

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dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#641
Dec 12, 2013
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#641
PeterJens said:
Imagine a person sitting down to two meals.

One meal is gone off food, rotten eggs, putrid drinks.
The other meal is clean vegetables, nice flavoured meats, good water and deserts.

Why would someone who has tasted the good meal return to the other and say they
are the same or the first has value over the second?

Why would the person who insists the first meal is better than the second be taken
seriously as anyone of value?

Only someone who has never tasted the second meal, and thinks there is no difference
and both are polluted, so why differentiate. Only the elect will know different, but only
the elect matter, because this is the Kingdom of Heaven. By their fruit will you know them.
Click to expand...
Imagine posting scripture and standing on the promises and truths of God instead of man made analogies that miss the mark or fall short of accurately describing the finished work of Christ on our behalf....
 
FranC

FranC

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Apr 30, 2016
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#642
A lot of scripture has been posted.
It does not matter to some here.
They prefer to believe their own man-made lies than what Jesus said.
Mathew 7:22
 
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willybob

Guest
#643
#643
fredoheaven said:
Hi WB,

I'm sure you have some verses describing those 'in Christ' being saved until the resurrection or that 'if' statements and otherwise unknowingly worshiping the image of the beast. And if there is such then there's a need to study it.

Thanks
Click to expand...
The hope of things to come Romans 8, he that endures to the end the SAME shall be saved said Jesus...

If one is not abiding in Christ they are branches cut off and to be cast into the like of fire...again if not in Christ walking after the law of the Spirit then the only thing left is to be walking after the beast (the beast is self worship) those who have an image of what they perceive Christ to be fashioned in their mind after their own fleshly desires, and they worship that image, or as Peter and Jude said "brute beast" made to be destroyed..... one can only walk after self (the beast), or after the Spirit, there are no other choices....
 
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dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#644
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
#644
FranC said:
A lot of scripture has been posted.
It does not matter to some here.
They prefer to believe their own man-made lies than what Jesus said.
Mathew 7:22
Click to expand...
No doubt...a terminal failure with Catholics.........

I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be for ever: nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it: and God doeth it, that men should fear before him.

That includes saving someone.....you should exercise faith....it actually works!
 
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wsblind

Guest
#645
#645
FranC said:
Well, if you're IN CHRIST you're saved.

If you're NOT IN CHRIST, you're not saved.

Romans 10:11
"Whoever BELIEVES in Him..."
Present tense.
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Do you know why it is in the present tense? Romans 10:11 is not stating if a person "presently" believes they are "in Christ."

It is stating a purpose clause. That is why believes is in the present tense. The purpose of believing leads to no shame for whoever believes. And that purpose "presently" stands true.

Nearly all verses that have "believes" in the present tense, are in a purpose clause. They are not describing a specific individual and Whether they are saved or not by their "present" belief. Go check out any advanced Greek textbooks or speak to someone who has taken more than a year of Greek.

Now go to a specific individual, and how that specific individual gets saved. We see something entirely different.

Acts 16:31,Believes is in the aorist tense. The MOMENT the jailer believes he is forever saved. Gods purpose for sending His Son is fulfilled......John 3:16( and believes in John 3:16 is present tense, the purpose clause again.)

Acts 16:31~~New American Standard Bible
They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#646
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
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#646
wsblind said:
Do you know why it is in the present tense? Romans 10:11 is not stating if a person "presently" believes they are "in Christ."

It is stating a purpose clause. That is why believes is in the present tense. The purpose of believing leads to no shame for whoever believes. And that purpose "presently" stands true.

Nearly all verses that have "believes" in the present tense, are in a purpose clause. They are not describing a specific individual and Whether they are saved or not by their "present" belief. Go check out any advanced Greek textbooks or speak to someone who has taken more than a year of Greek.

Now go to a specific individual, and how that specific individual gets saved. We see something entirely different.

Acts 16:31,Believes is in the aorist tense. The MOMENT the jailer believes he is forever saved. Gods purpose for sending His Son is fulfilled......John 3:16( and believes in John 3:16 is present tense, the purpose clause again.)

Acts 16:31~~New American Standard Bible
They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."
Click to expand...
AMEN...a present continuing result from a past completed action.....been explained numerous times...but rejected in favor of Catholic dogma.....
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
#647
#647
FranC said:
A lot of scripture has been posted.
It does not matter to some here.
They prefer to believe their own man-made lies than what Jesus said.
Mathew 7:22
Click to expand...
....John 3:16
 
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wsblind

Guest
#648
#648
John 5:24

Rom 8~~ 1Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

37But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer through Him who loved us. 38For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, 39nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#649
#649
willybob said:
One is in Christ and being saved until the redemption of our bodies if they are walking in the law of the Spirit, having heart purity, and at peace with God and all men/women...Otherwise they unknowingly worship the image of the beast..
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Then we are under law. Not under grace, and we must earn our salvation, It is not a gift, but a downpayment.

The image of the beast is a financial statement relegated to the great tribulation. Thus is nonsensical in this discussion
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#650
#650
FranC said:
A lot of scripture has been posted.
It does not matter to some here.
They prefer to believe their own man-made lies than what Jesus said.
Mathew 7:22
Click to expand...
The same can be said of you. Again, a nonsensical statement or strawman.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#651
#651
dcontroversal said:
Actually a biblical view....Jesus even used it himself in Revelation....and when one devalues the work and faith of Christ by interjecting themselves into the equation so as to HELP GOD do what JESUS has already promised to do....it makes me want to spew......

Next?
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not worth it bro. He is just attacking again. let him continue in his attack mode and slanderous state. I think it is time to put him in gods hands.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#652
#652
willybob said:
The hope of things to come Romans 8, he that endures to the end the SAME shall be saved said Jesus...

If one is not abiding in Christ they are branches cut off and to be cast into the like of fire...again if not in Christ walking after the law of the Spirit then the only thing left is to be walking after the beast (the beast is self worship) those who have an image of what they perceive Christ to be fashioned in their mind after their own fleshly desires, and they worship that image, or as Peter and Jude said "brute beast" made to be destroyed..... one can only walk after self (the beast), or after the Spirit, there are no other choices....
Click to expand...
If we have to endure to the end to be saved spiritually. We will all end up in hell. Because not a one of us lives up to Gods standard. which is perfection.

That is talking about tribulation period saints, and enduring until Christ returns, if you do, Your physical life will be saved.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#653
#653
wsblind said:
John 5:24

Rom 8~~1Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

37But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer through Him who loved us. 38For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, 39nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Click to expand...
Amen, No future event can take us away from God..
 
FranC

FranC

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Apr 30, 2016
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#654
FreeNChrist said:
....John 3:16
Click to expand...
For God so loved the world,
that He gave His only begotten son
That whosoever BELIEVETH in Him (present tense, NOW)
Should not perish, but have everlasting life. (the life in the Kingdom, that BEGINS here on earth).
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
#655
#655
FranC said:
For God so loved the world,
that He gave His only begotten son
That whosoever BELIEVETH in Him (present tense, NOW)
Should not perish, but have everlasting life. (the life in the Kingdom, that BEGINS here on earth).
Click to expand...
Believers, by definition, believe.
 
FranC

FranC

Banned
#656
Apr 30, 2016
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#656
We ARE under Jesus' Law.
Made possible to obey by Grace and the power of the Holy Spirit.

Mathew 5:16
"Let your light shine before men that they may see your good works.."

(Jesus speaking)


Matthew 5:17-20 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

17 “Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.
18 For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not [a]the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.
19 Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever [c]keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 “For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven."

(Jesus speaking)



Matthew 22:37-39 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

37 And He said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the great and [a]foremost commandment. 39 The second is like it, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’

(Jesus speaking)

These two commandments cover all the Others.

Mathew 22:39
is not well understood by some on these threads...
 
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W

wsblind

Guest
#657
#657
FranC said:
For God so loved the world,
that He gave His only begotten son
That whosoever BELIEVETH in Him (present tense, NOW)
Should not perish, but have everlasting life. (the life in the Kingdom, that BEGINS here on earth).
Click to expand...
John 3:16 is a purpose clause. "that" introduces the purpose of God sending Son. In this present day and age anyone ho believes Will be saved. It is not describing an individual who dos or does not presently believe.

The present purpose of God sending His Son to us is to save those who believe.

It is why you see the Aorist tense when describing a specific individual and their salvation. the moment they believe in Gods present purpose of sending His Son(John 3:16) they are FOREVER saved. Acts 16:31. They will NOT perish.

Its biblically and academically wrong to use the purpose clause and present tense of believe to teach whether or not someone is "presently" saved.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#659
#659
FranC said:
For God so loved the world,
that He gave His only begotten son
That whosoever BELIEVETH in Him (present tense, NOW)
Should not perish, but have everlasting life. (the life in the Kingdom, that BEGINS here on earth).
Click to expand...

Everlasting life is the term. It does not say you MAY have eternal life. It does not say you will have eternal life only if you keep on believing.

It says you will never die (means that the eternal life will not end.

And that you have eternal life. Not conditional life.

People do not just believe, then stop believing..

the focus is no on believe, the focus is on what they get when they do believe
 
FranC

FranC

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#660
Aorist.
Purpose clause.

If one were not an English Professor
and Koinè Greek Professor

HOW could he ever read the bible and come to a salvific understanding of it?????

When one wants to twists God's words around, he ALWAYS refers to the Greek.
There's no other way
SINCE THE ENGLISH IS SO PLAIN TO UNDERSTAND.

No. Some must make scripture mean what THEY WANT it to mean.

BUT IT STILL MEANS WHAT IT DOES, not what they WISH it to.
 
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