Eternal Security You CANNOT lose your salvation! by David J. Stewart | January 2004

[JIMBO43]

The reason why saved and salvation are diffrent by my understanding of knowledge is this...

Jesus christ came and walked amongst us.. he cast out demons in a person and saved them in that momemnt... but he sais this warning BEWARE FOR THEY CAN COME BACK....

Land of hope and glory my friends the only way to glorify God is to hope....

Its this wisdom that will glorify his name for the hoper is in beliefs when he hopes for salvation...
His glory can shine a path for you to walk your next foot step when you hope.. for salvation..

 

[dcontroversal]

please stop cutting my post in half. and making it sound as if I did not say something.

John said they are antichrist, and they were never of us. I never said someone who denys christ will get to heaven..

Jesus knows every aspect of our life. he knew it since birth. He knows who truly believe in him, and those who do not. He is not going to save a person he KNOWS will one day give him the finger and deny him..Why people think he would save them, and then one day have to take it back, because of something he already KNEW they were going to do is just outlandish.

There are several that do that on a regular basis....to twist what we say into something we did not say.........very deceptive....!

 

[Grace777x70]

We have to keep 2 aspects in mind when interpreting scriptures on salvation.

Works-based believers see the warning scriptures and "interpret" those to mean that one loses salvation as in going to be with the Lord for eternity. ( and we should be admonished to listen to these warning scriptures )

This type of mindset does not know the love and grace of God for people and thus they develop a fear based religion of works "to keep one saved".

1 John 4:18-19 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love.

[SUP]19 [/SUP] We love, because He first loved us.

Salvation manifests itself here in this earth and also for going to be with the Lord because we are in Christ - sealed by the Holy Spirit when we believed as Paul said in Eph. 1:13 ; 4:30.

Start shooting heroin in your arms today and you will NOT experience salvation - that is life and wholeness on this earth for very long.

Confuse the 2 and we will come up with all kinds of works-based salvationists views - like we lose our righteousness. We don't have our "own" righteousness. Christ Himself is our righteousness.

I believe we have to differentiate between "going to heaven to be with the Lord " salvation and - "being saved from the things that can destroy us here while being on this earth."

There are different manifestations of salvation in Christ - one is going to be with the Lord - the other is concerning the things of this life on earth.

The promised land is a type of being in Christ now - it is not a type of heaven as there will be no giants to fight in heaven.

Moses did not get to rest in what God had already provided for the Israelites - but yet Moses is with God now.

The promised land is a type of living here on this earth by believing in the promises of God. Only Caleb and Joshua were the ones that got to experience the promises of God in the promised land because they believed in what God had said.

We can inherit now in this life some things that are of the kingdom of God because the kingdom of God is within us...however if we don't have our minds renewed to the truth in Christ ( which includes living by the Spirit within us ) - we can not experience the things of the kingdom that are available to us believers.

Scripture uses the same Greek word - " salvation, saved " = wholeness, preservation, keep safe, deliverance, make well - for both being saved from things in this life and for going to be with the Lord for eternity.

If we don't understand this difference we will continually be mis-applying scriptures that talk about "being saved here in this life from things" and "going to be with the Lord".

There is eternal salvation and there is a manifestation of salvation from temporal things while on this earth. Confuse the two and we end up with a mixed up message of self-effort for going to heaven and only the blood of Jesus does that.

Jesus is either our Savior for going to be in heaven with Him or we are our own savior by helping Him. One is by grace through faith-righteousness - the other is works-righteousness.

Let's just rely on the Holy Spirit to reveal the things of Christ to us.

We are safe in the Lord Jesus Christ and we can trust Him to do what He has He will do and has already done for us.

We have a great salvation in Him! We can trust the Lord when He said "I will never leave you nor forsake you!"

The proper teaching of the gospel of Christ and what He has already done for us will provide the "nutrients" for the new creation in Christ which has been created in righteousness and holiness to manifest His life in and through us - and yes this also shows in our behavior.

As we have received Christ our Lord - so we walk in Him - and it is all by grace through faith. Col. 2:6

His love which is in us will come forth and bear much fruit. The behavior is a "fruit of salvation" - it does not produce salvation. Only Christ Himself is our true salvation - it is "in Him".

 

[PeterJens]

There are several that do that on a regular basis....to twist what we say into something we did not say.........very deceptive....!

Interesting interpretation.

I cut the post down to focus on the point that is of interest to me.
If one is really interested you go back to where the post was created.

If you cannot handle this simple approach, I am sorry, but it is a valid what of giving
attention to a point. But it would appear you want to make it sound like this is a
conspiracy of some sort, lol. God help you when you find yourself a victim of a real
conspiracy.

 

[JIMBO43]

You can not lose salvation if it hasnt been given to you yet..SALVATION IS GIVEN TO YOU WHEN YOUR BODY DIES...

you can however be saved untill you leave your body..end of period

 

[dcontroversal]

Interesting interpretation.

I cut the post down to focus on the point that is of interest to me.
If one is really interested you go back to where the post was created.

If you cannot handle this simple approach, I am sorry, but it is a valid what of giving
attention to a point. But it would appear you want to make it sound like this is a
conspiracy of some sort, lol. God help you when you find yourself a victim of a real
conspiracy.

Did you say something.....? Your not sorry about anything....nice figure of speech......! HAH

 

[wsblind]

Gods justice does not save us

Righteousness is justice. Righteousness requires justice if righteousness has been corrupted or infringed upon.

Forgiveness comes through Gods righteousness satisfied on the Cross.

This is why justice/righteousness is revealed in the gospel and salvation. Gods love for all mankind is revealed by Him sending His highest and Best for mankind.

16For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 17For in it(salvation) the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “BUT THE RIGHTEOUS man SHALL LIVE BY FAITH.”

New American Standard Bible
And He will judge the world in righteousness; He will execute judgment for the peoples with equity.

 

[dcontroversal]

Righteousness is justice. Righteousness requires justice if righteousness has been corrupted or infringed upon.

Forgiveness comes through Gods righteousness satisfied on the Cross.

This is why justice/righteousness is revealed in the gospel and salvation. Gods love for all mankind is revealed by Him sending His highest and Best for mankind.

16For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 17For in it(salvation) the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “BUT THE RIGHTEOUS man SHALL LIVE BY FAITH.”

New American Standard Bible
And He will judge the world in righteousness; He will execute judgment for the peoples with equity.

Amazing how the word sets us free from erroneous statements and misguided error........serious!

 

[PeterJens]

Righteousness is justice. Righteousness requires justice if righteousness has been corrupted or infringed upon.

Forgiveness comes through Gods righteousness satisfied on the Cross.

I look at things slightly differently. Mans sin is separation from God, living an independent
existence where we justify ourselves. At our core we distrust God and blame Him for all the
mess we are in, and though we understand it is a mess we see no way out.

The cross is both a door to forgiveness but also a statement of acceptance love and power.
In a crude sense it pays the price our sin has created and re-establishes a hope of love in
our hearts. It could only ever be God who took this act, for only He could do it, so we would
trust Him again. Justice says those who are broken, lost, falling apart can but be destroyed,
but those who are saved, rebuilt, given life and new hope, there is an eternal future with the
Father.

But this is not analytical or cold, sinful people do not function which is the basis of their failure,
because without Christ our love and life dries up.

 

[willybob]

Righteousness is justice. Righteousness requires justice if righteousness has been corrupted or infringed upon.

Forgiveness comes through Gods righteousness satisfied on the Cross.

This is why justice/righteousness is revealed in the gospel and salvation. Gods love for all mankind is revealed by Him sending His highest and Best for mankind.

16For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 17For in it(salvation) the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “BUT THE RIGHTEOUS man SHALL LIVE BY FAITH.”

New American Standard Bible
And He will judge the world in righteousness; He will execute judgment for the peoples with equity.

Uh, excuse me, but righteousness is something YOU DO, 1 John 3-7

Forgiveness comes on account of Jesus being the propitiation (mercy seat) for sin, when a full departure and clearing from wrong doing in repentance is made, trhen the Father grants reconciliation and restore to favour.....Solomon said he that confesses and forsakes his sin shall find mercy...

 

[Grandpa]

Romans 11:29 [FONT=&quot]For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

Do you believe this is a true statement? Or is this wrong?

Ephesians 2:8 [/FONT] [FONT=&quot]For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Do you believe that Salvation is the Gift of God? Or is this a false statement?

John 10:28-29
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

Do you believe this?

I suppose there is no reason to interrupt a good argument with biblical facts.[/FONT]

 

[willybob]

God COMMANDS ALL MEN everywhere to REPENT Acts 17-30

Repentance is not a gift, its a commandment of God...Or as Jesus said; repent or perish.....

 

[Grandpa]

God COMMANDS ALL MEN everywhere to REPENT Acts 17-30

Repentance is not a gift, its a commandment of God...Or as Jesus said; repent or perish.....

Repentance is a gift.

Just think of what you are turning from and turning to.

 

[willybob]

Every person has the God GIVEN ability to repent, Now God COMMANDS ALL MEN EVERYWHERE TO REPENT...humble yourself and let the truth sink in......Clinging to false doctrine after having been shown the truth is prideful... Dig deep and build your works upon the Rock of Truth, lest your whole house be swept away in the global flood of lies......

 

[mailmandan]

The Greek word for "repent" is "metanoia" (noun) and "matanoeo" (verb) you see as defined in the Strongs #3340, 3341: to think differently or afterwards, reconsider. After thought, change of mind. Repentance basically means a "change of mind" and the context must determine what is involved in this change of mind. Where salvation is in view, repentance unto salvation actually precedes saving faith in Christ and is not a totally separate act from faith. It is actually the same coin with two sides. Repentance is on one side, what you change your mind about and faith in Christ is on the positive side, the new direction of this change of mind. *Repentance and faith are two sides of the same experience of being brought to Christ.

The Bible also tells us that true repentance will result in a change of actions. Acts 26:20 declares, "I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds." This is the fruit of repentance (Matthew 3:8), not the essence of repentance. I have heard certain people say, "If you want to be saved, repent of your sins, turn from your sins." If turning from your sins means to stop sinning, then people can only be saved if they stop sinning. And it is unlikely that anyone has ever been saved, since we don't know anyone who has ever completely stopped sinning.

 

[wsblind]

Uh, excuse me, but righteousness is something YOU DO, 1 John 3-7

Forgiveness comes on account of Jesus being the propitiation (mercy seat) for sin, when a full departure and clearing from wrong doing in repentance is made, trhen the Father grants reconciliation and restore to favour.....Solomon said he that confesses and forsakes his sin shall find mercy...

You got it backwards. ALL men are reconciled to God.

New American Standard Bible
namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

This is why EVERY man, anywhere and at any time can come to Christ and be justified before the Father. The veil was torn.


Why does your theology have it easier for a sinner and enemy of God to be saved then a child of God to remain saved?

 

[wsblind]

I look at things slightly differently.

It's why you are in contention with most here. You look at things slightly different than the Word.

And if I am wrong Sir. Can you address the 2 verses I posted to you please? they plainly say salvation reveals His righteousness. Which is His justice. Because Christ satisfied His righteousness by His death on the Cross.

 

[wsblind]

Uh, excuse me, but righteousness is something YOU DO, 1 John 3-7

Forgiveness comes on account of Jesus being the propitiation (mercy seat) for sin, when a full departure and clearing from wrong doing in repentance is made, trhen the Father grants reconciliation and restore to favour.....Solomon said he that confesses and forsakes his sin shall find mercy...

I hope your age isn't stated correctly. Because you got some/lots of growing up to do.

You made a full departure? You don't even know the extent of our sinfulness. The minute you figure out the sin that besets you, there is another one that makes you slap your head.

How arrogant are you?

 

[willybob]

Romans 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

Do you believe this is a true statement? Or is this wrong?

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Do you believe that Salvation is the Gift of God? Or is this a false statement?

John 10:28-29
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

Do you believe this?

I suppose there is no reason to interrupt a good argument with biblical facts.

You misunderstand all of these verses I will teach you them that you might know them and hold fast to the truth

Romans 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

God will not repent from calling the Gentiles into the fold and has allowed for them the gift of reconciliation that they too might be grated in to the spiritual olive tree

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

The free gift is forgiveness of past sins. So lets dispense with the idea that man can save himself..

These are the two working dynamics of salvation expressed here by Paul 1) Gods grace (spiritual empowerment from GOD to live holy in this present world Titus 2:11-14 and 2) mans faith (steadfast faithfulness to God in obedience from the heart that worketh love)...Its all about man working together with God to bring about a relationship of love that in no wise can be achieved by any other means..for it is the apostle Paul that said "we are workers together with HIM"...

concerning John 10-28,29 as long as you are abiding in Christ no one can steal you away from the great and precious promises. However, if you depart from the faith (steadfast fidelity to God) you will have severed the covenant and it is a fearful thing to fall into the judgement of the living God, for the wrath of God falls on the children of disobedience.....none seem to want to preach BOTH the goodness and severity of God as Paul did...the covenant of redemption is conditional...

 

[willybob]

Grandpa

Note; regarding Romans 11 Paul warned that the Gentiles could also be cutt off if they fail to CONTINUE in the faith...

20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith.Be not highminded, but fear: (fear God who has the power to cast the soul into hell)

21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. (many professed Christians are so proud of their OSAS mythology that they even boast in it, as well as boasting of their sin thinking its of merit)

22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, (fell away from the faith) severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

How do they miss this stuff, its on just about every page of Paul's letters? 85 times in the New Testament..One needs to be blind not to see it. Jesus said they have eyes but see not..