The Lakewood Church

[FranC]

Yea but when you are saying you run a business and Jesus is your product and you sell people what they want to hear, like Osteen did in pretty much his only interview, something is seriously wrong. A chuch is not supposed to be a business selling any product. Money is not supposed to be the focus, its not even supposed to be kept but extra money after bills are supposed to be donated and given back to the Lord. Not to buy chains of mansions for yourself. I must disagree a church is not a business and if you think it is you have turned my fathers house into a den of thieves.

We must be in the same time zone.

So, you know what Paul Hewson said??
(BTW, if you don't know who that is, you could look it up, I'm not your mama)

He said:
"My God doesn't need money, mister."

I happen to agree with him.
God doesn't need money, but spreading the word of God does.

If you think it's not a business, try setting up a Church.

You have to get money to build it. You'll have to deal with realtors and banks.
Then contractors and decorators.

Then the bills start coming in.
Then you need money to pay them.

You have to keep books.
You have to make contacts to keep in touch with the outisde world.

That sounds like a business to me.

I know what you mean that it shouldn't BE ONE. But, in todays' world, it is.

Try taking off like Peter or Paul did on one of their missionary journeys.
With nothing except your purse.
(you could look up that verse too)

Then come back here and report on your progress.

 

[Infusion]

Joel Osteen is an encourager to the body of Christ and his ministry the Lord has used to help thousands out of their depression and to have hope in God.

Exhorting/encouraging others to believe and hope in God is a ministry gift. Romans 12:8. There are many people out there that have been beaten down by the enemy and life in general that need hope and encouragement that God is for them and that He will help them.

Some get mad at others because they believe the foul demonic belief that God makes them sick to "teach" them something and so they get offended when they hear others say that God is a good God and He wants you well and He loves you like any good Father would.

Then we have those that want to tear down the work of God because they think he doesn't preach like they would. It's sickening to watch this foul behavior being done amongst us because someone has a different type of ministry then some one else. Their malice towards others is defiling to the body of Christ.

Galatians 5:15-16 (NASB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] But if you bite and devour one another, take care that you are not consumed by one another.

[SUP]16 [/SUP] But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh.

You can motivate people using the bible, you dont have to twist the bible to do it as you are insinuating.

 

[Infusion]

That's you!
You just described yourself!
I didn't want to be rude and be the one to say it but you just said it yourself!

.
How is that him? That is literally the first post he made.

 

[FranC]

So now that you see nobody likes him and you are pretty much alone you stopped attacking the people that dont like him huh. I think people who attack others over belief have some growing up to do.

I'm only going to try hard to answer only your posts to me,

However

Read your last sentence.
What are you doing?

You told ME, I'm turning the Father's house into a den of thieves.
I thank you for the compliment, however, God will be the judge, not you.

So it looks like someone besides me has some growing up to do.
Here, I'll even give you a verse...

Mathew 7:1-5

 

[Infusion]

Good morning Lakewood fans!
I just wanted to remind you of two live services today, one at 9:30 AM EST and one at 12:00 PM EST.
And by Lakewood time, that's 8;30 AM and 11:00 AM.
I hope you enjoy the worship service and Joel's message.
We'll talk later.
Love, Allen

.
by lakewood fans he means willie and fran

 

[Infusion]

Just read this full Chapter of pure encouraging False Preaching. Not once does he even mention Hell. Shameful! Never does he say you must come to God through Jesus. Disgusting!

Yet many of us have let ourselves be duped into actually listening to this guy. We should be ashamed of ourselves...... especially as much as we go around quoting several of the verses here. (Out of context, I might add.)

Philippians 4 King James Version (KJV)
4 Therefore, my brethren dearly beloved and longed for, my joy and crown, so stand fast in the Lord, my dearly beloved.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]I beseech Euodias, and beseech Syntyche, that they be of the same mind in the Lord.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And I intreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellowlabourers, whose names are in the book of life.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Rejoice in the Lord always: and again I say, Rejoice.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Let your moderation be known unto all men. The Lord is at hand.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]But I rejoiced in the Lord greatly, that now at the last your care of me hath flourished again; wherein ye were also careful, but ye lacked opportunity.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, therewith to be content.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]I know both how to be abased, and I know how to abound: every where and in all things I am instructed both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Notwithstanding ye have well done, that ye did communicate with my affliction.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Now ye Philippians know also, that in the beginning of the gospel, when I departed from Macedonia, no church communicated with me as concerning giving and receiving, but ye only.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]For even in Thessalonica ye sent once and again unto my necessity.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Not because I desire a gift: but I desire fruit that may abound to your account.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]But I have all, and abound: I am full, having received of Epaphroditus the things which were sent from you, an odour of a sweet smell, a sacrifice acceptable, wellpleasing to God.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Now unto God and our Father be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Salute every saint in Christ Jesus. The brethren which are with me greet you.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]All the saints salute you, chiefly they that are of Caesar's household.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.

.
So does this mean you owe an apology to everybody you attacked here for not liking him? hmmmmmmmmm?

 

[Infusion]

I am tired of this and this is lame. I will close with this.
If somebody is ready to see the truth they will see it right away. They will hear it and accept it right away. If they dont you can try to tell them all your life and they will never get it. You dont even really need to tell people. When they are ready they will just know, they will be able to see.

 

[FranC]

I did not see him do horrible things like I been saying. I was making the point that I lived by him because it was being insinuated I believe that I knew nothing about the church when I live across the street. Not saying hes a horrible guy just saying hes a human being and you never know whats behind the business persona. Of course he doesnt have the same face in the grocery store as in the fancy pictures you see. Hes a human and a prick just like the rest of us.

Well. I must agree with you here.
He's human, just like the rest of us.
He does a lot more for God's Kingdom that I ever could do, though.
He brings a lot more persons in than I ever could.
But, we all do our best.

 

[Infusion]

I'm only going to try hard to answer only your posts to me,

However

Read your last sentence.
What are you doing?

You told ME, I'm turning the Father's house into a den of thieves.
I thank you for the compliment, however, God will be the judge, not you.

So it looks like someone besides me has some growing up to do.
Here, I'll even give you a verse...

Mathew 7:1-5

.
I didnt say it Jesus did. I didnt call Joels church a business focused on just money, you did. It wasnt a compliment. And I did not judge you. And no offense but its kinda hard for people to understand you I think. Covenants with the Father are being sold same as doves were sold. They are turning profits from outside sources like money lenders.

 

[Infusion]

Well. I must agree with you here.
He's human, just like the rest of us.
He does a lot more for God's Kingdom that I ever could do, though.
He brings a lot more persons in than I ever could.
But, we all do our best.

.
Not out to defend Joel either but I have to say that in big cities things are alot different. Its hard to explain but you can just get away with alot more and not be seen as a bad guy. I admit I pushed my point a bit more than it was but it doesnt make it not true either. I do see him around but shouldnt have made it out to sound like he was some kinda gangster or something. Just meant hes not perfect.

 

[FranC]

No
Everybody does not think covetous thoughts and lustful thoughts about other mens wives all the time. Everybody does not think of doing wrong things all the time. You ask what point is it a sin? Its a sin when you do it. Its not normal to lust and covet and you should not be telling yourself its ok. You say if we are living in the light I need not to worry but this behavior is not living in the light its living in darkness and sin.

Again, you're doing what you did before. Judging me. You believe I'm living in darkness and sin?? I hope you're speaking in general terms.

What are you saying here? You NEVER think of a woman?
Did I say it's ok? Did I say it's OK to covet another man's wife? I never even used those words! I was referring to GOODS, not persons.

You must be a monk, and a really special one at that.
It's good if you never even have a bad THOUGHT.

Unfortuantely, the rest of us probably do at one time or another.
Thoughts are NOT SINS. It's what you do with them that could be a sin.
It's not for YOU to decide at what point. It's between the person and God.
We can't all be as mature in spirit as you apparently are.

 

[Infusion]

Again, you're doing what you did before. Judging me. You believe I'm living in darkness and sin?? I hope you're speaking in general terms.

What are you saying here? You NEVER think of a woman?
Did I say it's ok? Did I say it's OK to covet another man's wife? I never even used those words! I was referring to GOODS, not persons.

You must be a monk, and a really special one at that.
It's good if you never even have a bad THOUGHT.

Unfortuantely, the rest of us probably do at one time or another.
Thoughts are NOT SINS. It's what you do with them that could be a sin.
It's not for YOU to decide at what point. It's between the person and God.
We can't all be as mature in spirit as you apparently are.

I never said anything you just said. I have no idea what you are talking about really. And yes I do not have lustful thoughts of other women. I used to but I learned ... no it wasnt anything in my head its my heart, when I really gave my heart to the Lord and my fiancee, if I looked at another girl it just seemed senseless and didnt like it and just stopped. Not saying I am perfect but yea I mean some say I do live like a monk and some say I am special. I am not saying thoughts are sins, Jesus is saying it so argue with him. I mean if you sin then I think its safe to say you are living in sin... thats pretty much what it means.

 

[FranC]

.
or its been answered many times and vids are posted from the first page and you both arent able to keep up.

On my part, I'll say this:
I don't do links.
I like to go to the source. I've known JO for years and I'm sure AllenW has too.
I'm not judging by watchng him one time on TV.
I'm not judging him by some article about what he thinks on gays.
I like to HEAR HIM say what he believes -- not some journalist's idea.
Also, it' really difficult to get ideas across when the interviewer is most probably an atheist and out to discredit you anyway.
Have you ever heard of the leftist press? it works the same way with Christianity.
So no links for me.

 

[Infusion]

On my part, I'll say this:
I don't do links.
I like to go to the source. I've known JO for years and I'm sure AllenW has too.
I'm not judging by watchng him one time on TV.
I'm not judging him by some article about what he thinks on gays.
I like to HEAR HIM say what he believes -- not some journalist's idea.
Also, it' really difficult to get ideas across when the interviewer is most probably an atheist and out to discredit you anyway.
Have you ever heard of the leftist press? it works the same way with Christianity.
So no links for me.

You dont have to click links the videos are right there. Its not journalists or a story its just Joel talking for himself. Hes saying Jesus means nothing and we worship and pray for ourself not the Lord. This is most peoples issue with him. If you only seen him once that explains everything and you should not be fighting for something you dont understand in the first place. Like saying to desertrose he doesnt preach this stuff when you have no idea. It just misleads others seeing the thread. If you dont know you should just be honest and say that.

 

[FranC]

.
no... everybody understands it fine except the people who just dont want to.

You're speaking about the Rich Young Man.
Mathew 19:16-26

BTW, the POSTER is supposed to post the verse spoken of, NOT the reader. How is the reader supposed to know what verse you're talking about? Do we have the entire new testament memorized???

Anyway, you say everybody understands that verse.
Some Christians are new and don't know. I was horrified when I first read it.
Some guests might be reading along and not know it at all.

How about explaining it to us???
Thanks.

 

[Infusion]

You're speaking about the Rich Young Man.
Mathew 19:16-26

BTW, the POSTER is supposed to post the verse spoken of, NOT the reader. How is the reader supposed to know what verse you're talking about? Do we have the entire new testament memorized???

Anyway, you say everybody understands that verse.
Some Christians are new and don't know. I was horrified when I first read it.
Some guests might be reading along and not know it at all.

How about explaining it to us???
Thanks.

.
I was not referring to any bible verse. I was just saying that. Sounds like a good one. You can share it if you wish.

 

[Infusion]

FranC you seem like a nice woman. You should be open minded to all sides here. People are not here to badmouth him just warn others. Notice is the JO supporters bad mouthing everyone. This is cause they have something to be defensive about and they know it. Let Willie and Allen argue nobody all day but when a guy says you dont need Jesus, you need to stay clear of him.

 

[FranC]

.
no. everybody says this because he teaches Jesus is not the only way to heaven and that we dont pray for the Lord but for our own desires and many other twisted things against the bible.

I'd be willing to discuss this with you.
It gets a little complicated --- no time now.

What does "Jesus is the ONLY way to heaven mean?"
Maybe we could start with that.

Jesus said to pray Always. Prayer could be discusssed but it'll take some time.
If you're interested, let me know.

 

[Infusion]

I'd be willing to discuss this with you.
It gets a little complicated --- no time now.

What does "Jesus is the ONLY way to heaven mean?"
Maybe we could start with that.

Jesus said to pray Always. Prayer could be discusssed but it'll take some time.
If you're interested, let me know.

privatemessage
me anytime
ill give you my skype cause im never on here.

 

[FranC]

\

LOL
So you think sound travels a long distance in higher altitude and doesnt travel in lower altitude?
LOL

Do you know any physics at all???

Have you ever been to the Agora' in Athens???