Women Pastors? Help me.
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S
The only thing Paul was assuming is that the letter he directed at Timothy would be understood in its proper context. I doubt he ever even thought that people like you would twist it around to say something it doesn't convey. The context is about a husband/wife relationship just as it uses Adam and Eve as an example.
Or do you really believe that any woman is to submit to any man?
Or do you really believe that any woman is to submit to any man?
The Bible tells the whole church to be subject to one another, so why the special writing to the women of the church?
Perhaps..... it was a problem in certain areas/cities. IMO, that had to be it, for if it was such a serious issue, or to become such a serious issue, Jesus Himself would have told His disciples about it.
It didn't bother Jesus when the woman at the well proclaimed Jesus as the Messiah to the city of Samaria, did it?
The people came because she kept telling everybody about it..... the whole city!
It didn't bother the apostles when Mary came to proclaim Jesus' resurrection, did it?
Perhaps..... it was a problem in certain areas/cities. IMO, that had to be it, for if it was such a serious issue, or to become such a serious issue, Jesus Himself would have told His disciples about it.
It didn't bother Jesus when the woman at the well proclaimed Jesus as the Messiah to the city of Samaria, did it?
The people came because she kept telling everybody about it..... the whole city!
It didn't bother the apostles when Mary came to proclaim Jesus' resurrection, did it?
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Give us the NAME and TOWNS of some of those churches so that we can examine THEIR Doctrinal Statement of Faith to verify that you are telling us the truth that they refuse to teach the Book of Acts.
I am sure what we will find, is that you personally want the Book of Acts to be considered and taught as a Doctrinal Epistle, so that it justifies your Charismatic Tongues, when all that book ever was, is a History Book, describing the acts of the Apostles. Therefore it CANNOT be used as a book to support and teach Doctrines. However it can be used to verify the History of HOW the Apostles did experience Tongues, and that included a might wind, tongues of fire on their heads, and unbelieving Jews hearing every word in their own native dialects, correct right down to the correct accents. Minus those things, only constitutes a conterfeit.
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S
Your anti Pentecostal views are already well-known and basically gives you no credibility whatsoever when it comes to this issue. The entire Bible is a history book but the entire Bible is also useful for "rebuke correction and instruction in righteousness", and no where does it say except the book of Acts.
S
This means absolutely nothing when you don't provide any contacts or quote anybody. Apparently you haven't figured out by now that nobody takes your word for it and that it is up to you to corroborate your assertions.
The only cop-out I see is denying all the scripture I just gave you without addressing it.
The only cop-out I see is denying all the scripture I just gave you without addressing it.
What part IN the Churches do you NOT understand?
1 Corinthians 14:33-35 (HCSB)
[SUP]33 [/SUP] since God is not a God of disorder but of peace. As in all the churches of the saints,
[SUP]34 [/SUP] the women should be silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak, but should be submissive, as the law also says.
[SUP]35 [/SUP] And if they want to learn something, they should ask their own husbands at home, for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church meeting.
You do not really believe these verses literally either, do you?
2 Timothy 3:16 (HCSB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] All Scripture is inspired by God and is profitable for teaching, for rebuking, for correcting, for training in righteousness,
2 Peter 1:20-21 (HCSB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] First of all, you should know this: No prophecy of Scripture comes from one’s own interpretation,
[SUP]21 [/SUP] because no prophecy ever came by the will of man; instead, men spoke from God as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.
Matthew 28:20 (NRSV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] and teaching them to obeyeverything that I have commanded you. And remember, I am with you always, to the end of the age."
Matthew 18:6-7 (ESV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened around his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] “Woe to the world for temptations to sin! For it is necessary that temptations come, but woe to the one by whom the temptation comes!
Tell me, when you were little and growing up, and your earthly father told you something
SPECIFIC THAT HE WANTED YOU TO DO; what happened if you replied,
"I don't think that is fair Daddy!" ? ? ?
1 Corinthians 14:33-35 (HCSB)
[SUP]33 [/SUP] since God is not a God of disorder but of peace. As in all the churches of the saints,
[SUP]34 [/SUP] the women should be silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak, but should be submissive, as the law also says.
[SUP]35 [/SUP] And if they want to learn something, they should ask their own husbands at home, for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church meeting.
You do not really believe these verses literally either, do you?
2 Timothy 3:16 (HCSB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] All Scripture is inspired by God and is profitable for teaching, for rebuking, for correcting, for training in righteousness,
2 Peter 1:20-21 (HCSB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] First of all, you should know this: No prophecy of Scripture comes from one’s own interpretation,
[SUP]21 [/SUP] because no prophecy ever came by the will of man; instead, men spoke from God as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.
Matthew 28:20 (NRSV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] and teaching them to obeyeverything that I have commanded you. And remember, I am with you always, to the end of the age."
Matthew 18:6-7 (ESV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened around his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] “Woe to the world for temptations to sin! For it is necessary that temptations come, but woe to the one by whom the temptation comes!
Tell me, when you were little and growing up, and your earthly father told you something
SPECIFIC THAT HE WANTED YOU TO DO; what happened if you replied,
"I don't think that is fair Daddy!" ? ? ?
There you go again, changing the word from by to OF so that you THINK it justifies your Charismatic experience. That was a ONE TIME EVENT where the HOLY SPIRIT replaced Jesus Christ as the COMFORTER:
John 14:16-18 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
It was the INAUGURATION OF THE CHURCH-AGE, A VERY SPECIAL EVENT, THE TRANSFER OF POSITION OF COMFORTER FROM JESUS CHRIST TO THE HOLY SPIRIT; not what will happen to ever believer. Many from your side of the fence, will tell you that you are Baptized into the Holy Spirit, and CLEARLY that is NOT what the Bible says above. It says he will be with you and in you. You all have fallen for a COUNTERFEIT of what the Holy Spirit did through the Apostles to FULFILL the PROPHECY PROMISE:
1 Corinthians 14:21-22 (NASB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] In the Law it is written, "BY MEN OF STRANGE TONGUES AND BY THE LIPS OF STRANGERS I WILL SPEAK TO THIS PEOPLE, AND EVEN SO THEY WILL NOT LISTEN TO ME," says the Lord.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] So then tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers; but prophecy is for a sign, not to unbelievers but to those who believe.
You all are desperately trying to make your unbiblical experience fit SCRIPTURE, and it fails every time, because it is NOTHING LIKE WHAT HAPPENED TO THE APOSTLES. You do know the Hindus speak in ecstatic tongues TOO, and they call it the Kundalini Awakening.
You have got to be at least the 301st Charismatic or Pentecostal that has tried to confront me on this issue, and I KNOW EVERYTHING YOU ARE GOING TO USE IN YOUR ARGUMENT, and it still TOTALLY FAILS the test of Scripture every time. Please, let's not waste our time.
No, My wife, (whom I was married to for 36 years before she passed away), spoke in charismatic tongues for years, before I met her and while doing her own serious Bible Study on the subject shortly after we were married, she discovered it was all a counterfeit. I was seeking to speak in tongues at that time and wanted to prove her wrong, so I began a serious Bible Study on the subject. Two weeks into that study, I came to the biblical conclusion, that she was right, it really was all a pure counterfeit. SO I did 5.5 more months of INTENSE study on that one subject, and found WAY MORE evidence for a Non-Charismatic point of view than I ever did for a Charismatic Point of view. After all the books, sermon tapes, and personal interviews were done, I sat down and wrote a Summary of want I had learned throughout that intense study, and by the time I re-typed it to save as a Word Doc for my Computer, it turned out to be a 12 page, #10 Times New Roman font, Summary. Believe me, I could have written an an extensive 300 page book on the subject, but the Holy Spirit in me told me, after page 12, that if they will not hear the truth in those 12 pages, adding 288 more pages would be equally ignored. Even my Pastor as well as several others, agreed it was one of the best explanations of The Gift of Tongues - A non-charismatic understanding that they had ever read.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOFH5gykeJk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQrBtPQUVxc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFKnsFwTrOI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8jcGXRJu5Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9d5lDeMJjx4
Believe in whatever experience you want, but we will continue to believe what the Word of God actually says, and what the Holy Spirit has led us to understand.
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S
I'm not changing anything, I gave you the scripture, all you're doing now is deflecting to something else instead of addressing a the scriptures. It wasn't a one-time event which you would know if you actually read the scriptures I caught it but of course your cognitive dissonance won't allow you to learn something new which is exactly the point I made about people not wanting to study the book of Acts. You quote John 14:16 yet you don't even see that it says that the Holy Spirit was another comforter that replaced Jesus and would abide with us forever. Jesus was the first comforter the Holy Spirit is our second comforter and he is permanent. V17 above clearly shows that he will be in us which is why Jesus told his Apostles to wait in Jerusalem for him and which is why the many examples I quoted in Acts shows salvation and the baptism of the Holy Spirit are two distinct processes. This is why Luke made a record of it so many times in Acts and why Paul in Acts 19:2-3, asked whether or not those disciples had received the baptism of the Holy Spirit, which was what John the Baptist prophesied in John 1:33 and which Jesus foretold in Acts 1:5 and which Peter instructed in Acts 2:38.
There was no inauguration and replacement theology is a false teaching. What Paul does teach in 1 Cor 12 & 14 is that tongues is not a one-time event and has its particular purpose in the corporate church, one of which is to speak to unbelievers. It also has a place in our personal prayer life when we pray in the spirit.
The only person acting desperate here is you and there's nothing unbiblical about being baptized in the Holy Spirit, in fact it is very biblical. What Paul is teaching in 1st Corinthians happened at least 20 years after the things that happened in Acts so obviously it was going on for some time and never stopped despite the cessationist point of view.
All this statement goes to show is that you're just as inculcated about this issue as you are about women pastors but that doesn't make you right it just makes you incapable of receiving the truth. One thing is for sure, you like to come off as a know-it-all but you aren't and you show that every time you make a post. I agree on your last point, don't waste my time.
There was no inauguration and replacement theology is a false teaching. What Paul does teach in 1 Cor 12 & 14 is that tongues is not a one-time event and has its particular purpose in the corporate church, one of which is to speak to unbelievers. It also has a place in our personal prayer life when we pray in the spirit.
The only person acting desperate here is you and there's nothing unbiblical about being baptized in the Holy Spirit, in fact it is very biblical. What Paul is teaching in 1st Corinthians happened at least 20 years after the things that happened in Acts so obviously it was going on for some time and never stopped despite the cessationist point of view.
All this statement goes to show is that you're just as inculcated about this issue as you are about women pastors but that doesn't make you right it just makes you incapable of receiving the truth. One thing is for sure, you like to come off as a know-it-all but you aren't and you show that every time you make a post. I agree on your last point, don't waste my time.
Like I said, I have been down this path with numerous others ever since the early 80's; and I can produce hand written Bibles Studies to prove it. AND I FIND NOTHING NEW UNDER THE SUN. What has been said, will be said again, and again, and again, and again. Absolutely NOTHING new under the sun. You certainly do not see desperation in me, just someone who is sick and tired of nearly every Pentecostal and Charismatic wanting to argue this issue.
And the more the Kundalini Awakening spreads throughout the Charismatic Movement, the more they want to argue about it. That just adds to the proof that Toronto Blessing was and is purely of the Devil.
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