Women Pastors? Help me.

[DiscipleDave]

This is not a KJV thread. Regardless, you just demonstrated that satan was involved in the interpretation of the manuscripts and published editions used in the development of the KJV.

i have never did that, that is what you falsely accuse me of doing, i forgive you.

If God was involved in the development of the KJV, He was equally involved in the NIV, NEB, CEV, etc. Your argument is invalidated by your poor logic.

seriously? That is what you believe. So let me get this right, you think God was there to make sure that the KJV was written EXACTLY as HE wanted it to be written, but then in the last days, GOD decided that what He did with the KJV was wrong, and needed to be redone for the generation of the Last Days. How is that not poor logic? What? God didn't do it right the first time Scriptures was interpreted into English? seriously. Was it not this generation that felt the KJV was OUTDATED and it needed to be redone, reinterpreted? How is that not a spit in the face of God. "God we the people of this last day generation feel like your version of the English Word of God is outdated, we are going to make hundreds of other versions instead" all the while satan is jumping for joy for keeping people away from the very Word of God that God made sure was correct and accurate, and could be used for instruction in Righteousness. No leave it to this generation to think and believe the KJV was outdated. God was there to REDO His version into the NIV, seriously laughing out loud on that one. What? If i get 100 people together and come up with yet another version of the Bible, will God be in that too? lol.

Originally Posted by DiscipleDave

And i am guessing you are women who thinks you are equal to your husband, and lives in America, am i right? it is no wander to me, that you see it differently than what Scriptures says it should be. ... No, we don't agree because you are a woman that does not agree with Scriptures which teaches those things that you do not agree with. You justify yourself by saying you disagree with ME, when it is not me that you disagree with but what Scriptures teach concerning wives to their husbands.

I have explained already that a blue nickname indicates a male contributor.

This is proof that you have not been reading and understanding what i said. i have said in response to you telling me that, that all of mine are blue. i see no other colors at all in the names. males are blue, females are blue, whatever else is out there it appears BLUE.

Again, this is not a KJV thread. Your argument that people died for owning a KJV needs evidence, as does your assertion that God Himself protected it from satan. Your comment from the previous post invalidates this.

How is it logical, that you reprove me saying this is not a KJV thread, yet you ask me to explain yet more concerning that very thing. If then i answer you concerning your question about the KJV, how will you not reprove me again saying it is not a KJV thread. Suggestion, stop asking me questions concerning the KJV on this thread, because i try to answer all questions that are presented to me, if you keep asking me about KJV on this thread, then i will continue to answer you on this thread. If it bothers you so much talking about KJV on this thread, stop asking me questions about it.

The length of time during which a translation is "dominant" in a given language has no bearing whatsoever on whether it is correct. The Vulgate was used for 1100 years, which trumps your "400 year" argument.

Who said the Vulgate is incorrect, or inaccurate?

A translation doesn't save anyone. Get your soteriology straight.

Sorry have no ideal what that word means. It is also evident that you did not do what i asked concerning reading the article on the website below about translations. i have never said the NIV or any other version is evil, wicked, or the such. If you were to have read what i actually believed you would not have made this false statement here. Any version that can bring a person to the Lord Jesus Christ is not a bad version. Believing in Jesus is what Gets a person Saved, and that can be accomplished through any version, or even a pamphlet. or a lose piece of paper in a jar, floating in the ocean.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[whirlingmerc]

There is such a thing as priest hood of believers so... women believers are priests in that sense... but... I think its pretty clear there should be male oversight in leadership.

There may be some semantics going on but if a woman leader has male leader oversight like an elder oversight, then I don't have a problem with a woman being a youth pastor... although I would rather say youth minister... there is some semantics but I do believe in a plurality of maie elders having oversight

 

[DiscipleDave]

Originally Posted by DiscipleDave

. . .
What God allowed into the KJV is what God wanted in the KJV, else He would have removed it, or caused it not to be added into it.
. . .
^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

That statement is a hard sell after you actually read the Original 1611 KJV Preface.

Tell me. is the 1611 KJV what we have today? Or did God, as i said above, caused it to cease, because it was not as HE wanted it. The 1611 KJV was NOT what God wanted. if it was then we would still have it to this very day.

Here is an Excerpt to show you what I mean. I read the whole thing twice, and it totally totally convinced me that the newer Translations were Absolutely NECESSARY:

lol. There would be a need for newer Translations that would be Absolutely NECESSARY if it was the 1611 KJV that would have prevailed to this day. But it wasn't and didn't, why? Because God didn't want that one. i have read the entire 1611 KJV Bible, and saw exactly why God had to intervene, and give to us what we have today. Are the KJV Bibles we have today the 1611 version? NO, Why? because the 1611 version was not correct. So then God corrected it in the beginning to give us the KJV we have today.

Dino, am i wrong to respond to VCO on this thread that is not about the KJV?

Try to stay on topic people, if you want to discuss the KJV start a thread on it.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[StanJ]

In fact the KJV is a paraphrase of earlier English Translations, to update the language and correct known errors. I says so in the Original 1611 Preface.

It actually says translation and I have a version from 1868 that reflects that.

 

[StanJ]

Dino, you are wasting your time with DD. He is not of this Earth. He really believes he is chosen of God but unfortunately he doesn't understand that if he was chosen of God he wouldn't be on a forum like this arguing semantics, he would be out on the highways and byways bringing in the sheaves.

 

[DevonS]

Surprising to see the conversation still continuing. I am thankful for all the people who commented and gave their opinion with scripture for me to consider.

It sure is a touchy subject, after all this is where my salvation took place. When I first posted this I had a clear idea of what my thought was on the subject but I was not 100% certain or should I say I was not ready to take the theological position yet, due to my previous experiences.
While I am not going to argue, or participate in the debate here, as I am too lazy and too busy to type out a book, I would still like to give an update and let you all know where I do stand on the subject now.

I've basically had to come to a place where I teach myself to stay in the mindset that my experience should not dictate my doctrine. Yes the gospel was preached sufficient enough here for me to respond, as well as many others and while I believe the faith of those people of that church are truly genuine and I do not doubt the salvation of the teachers; I just simply disagree with their understanding on the matter.

In summary, I simply believe the Bible to always be consistent throughout and it is clear that the man was to take the role of leadership and authority all the way from Genesis, and scripture is consistent with that idea throughout the entire Bible. I also can not deny the Pastoral requirements written by paul in 1st Timothy and Titus.

I personally see no condemnation for women to exercise spiritual gifts, and to prophesy and they are even permitted to teach other women and children. Thus I say it is ok for women to serve some roles in ministry, but not particularly as a Pastor or Deacon.


Just wanted to give a little update as I've had a few messages asking. God bless.

 

[Silverwings]

"In the last days it shall be,' says God,*that I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh;*your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,*your young men shall see visions,*and your old men shall dream dreams. Even on My menservants and maidservants*I will pour out My Spirit in those days;*and they shall prophesy" (Acts 2:17-18).

Mirriam Webster Dictionary

Definition of prophesy
prophesied; prophesying
transitive verb
1
:* to utter by or as if by divine inspiration
2
:* to predict with assurance or on the basis of mystic knowledge
3
:* prefigure
intransitive verb
1
:* to speak as if divinely inspired
2
:* to give instruction in religious matters :* preach
3
:* to make a prediction

 

[samuel23]

I have the same Holy Spirit as Billy Graham, that does not mean that God will give me the position that God gave Graham. A woman having the Spirit does not mean that God wants her to have authority over men in the church. God would never instruct Paul to tell the church that men are to do the leading and then tell a woman to lead the men...that would be a contradiction.

 

[Dino246]

I have the same Holy Spirit as Billy Graham, that does not mean that God will give me the position that God gave Graham. A woman having the Spirit does not mean that God wants her to have authority over men in the church. God would never instruct Paul to tell the church that men are to do the leading and then tell a woman to lead the men...that would be a contradiction.

True, that would be a contradiction... if in fact God had so instructed Paul. He didn't. Your misuse of terms undermines your argument.

 

[Dagallen]

I have the same Holy Spirit as Billy Graham, that does not mean that God will give me the position that God gave Graham. A woman having the Spirit does not mean that God wants her to have authority over men in the church. God would never instruct Paul to tell the church that men are to do the leading and then tell a woman to lead the men...that would be a contradiction.

If men are weak in understanding and there is a woman who has understanding, then who should speak, the man who lack understanding or the woman who has understanding ?

 

[peacenik]

Mirriam Webster Dictionary

Definition of prophesy
prophesied; prophesying
transitive verb
1
:* to utter by or as if by divine inspiration
2
:* to predict with assurance or on the basis of mystic knowledge
3
:* prefigure
intransitive verb
1
:* to speak as if divinely inspired
2
:* to give instruction in religious matters :* preach
3
:* to make a prediction

... which is exactly what Phillip's daughters did in the New Testament.

 

[Denadii]

So Im basically looking for some closure on this subject.

When I was 5 years old the first church I ever started attending was lead by A female Pastor. I was a regular for about 10 years. The pastor and My grandmother were best friends and she Preached at her funeral when he passed tragically.
I was saved at this church and witnessed many life changing things.

To me she was called. The absolutely incredible ways I would see God move through our church services and the amazing ways she would minister to us and help us really never made me doubt here calling. She was and still is my biggest inspiration as far as everything I hope to be one day.

So after reading that you can now imagine how hard it is to read passages like 1 Timothy 3- "The Husband of One Wife"
and 1 Tim 2:12 "I do not permit a women to teach nor have authority over a man"
And I also read about the Women Prophets of the Old testament like Miriam and others. And also places that speak of women prophesying.


I've had people tell me that the one I look up to the most is a false teacher because she is a women leading a church. That hurts my soul to hear things like that but I never want to argue the Scripture.

What is your take on the subject? Would you doubt someone's calling despite all of the wonderful fruit they produce?
Is our understanding of these passages wrong? Let me know what you think please.



This is the church and The Pastor I am referring to. --> Stephanie Taylor: Jesus Saves the Stripper | CBN.com (The pastor comes in later, not stephiane)

What these people told you was dead wrong! There is NOTHING in the bible that says women can't preach, lead an assembly, teach or even have authority over men. There is nothing at all. This devilish doctrine comes from someone taking one single verse and building a doctrine on it, and the Word makes them liars. Take that first verse for a start. 1 Tim 2:12 He said "I do not allow. He did not say it was wrong. So then you throw another verse in Paul again. Here Paul is speaking. answering questions..one after another he answers...1 Corinthians 14:34 You read. "[SUP]4 [/SUP]Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law." and you say..."Oh there it is again! Women are not supposed to teach, but are to keep silent. Bummah!! But take it in context...Paul is answering questions...What was the question here? Was it...Are women allowed to teach? no...Should women keep silent? Nope. The question was "[SUP]4 [/SUP]Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law." That was the question!! and the answer? Read on folks.
[SUP]36 [/SUP]What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?

[SUP]37 [/SUP]If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord." Did God tell you this? If you think you're a prophet acknowledge what I say as truth.

[SUP]36 [/SUP]Did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only people it has reached? [SUP]37 [/SUP]If anyone thinks he is a prophet or is endowed with the Spirit, let him acknowledge that what I am writing you is a command of the Lord. [SUP]38 [/SUP]But if someone doesn’t recognize this, then let him remain unrecognized. Look The Word of the Lord comes to anybody whom the Lord chooses...Not to whom you choose.
Devon S How many woman preachers, woman prophets and woman ministers can you find in the bible? Search them our. There was one in particular I'm thinking of right now..

[h=1] Luke 2:36-38 (CJB)
[/h] [SUP]36 [/SUP]There was also a prophet named Hannah Bat-P’nu’el, of the tribe of Asher. She was a very old woman — she had lived with her husband seven years after her marriage [SUP]37 [/SUP]and had remained a widow ever since; now she was eighty-four. She never left the Temple grounds but worshipped there night and day, fasting and praying. [SUP]38 [/SUP]She came by at that moment and began thanking God and speaking about the child to everyone who was waiting for Yerushalayim to be liberated. There are many more women in the bible..'Find them....!

 

[samuel23]

Not many women leaders in the bible at all, but there were a few. Hannah was not in authority over anyone, she was shown the future by God and that would make her a prophet. The only woman in the OT that actually ruled the nation of Israel was an evil woman who was not suppose to be there. All writers of the bible are men, all priest were men, the 12 apostles all men, so it does not seem out of order that God would want men to led in the church.

 

[Denadii]

Not many women leaders in the bible at all, but there were a few. Hannah was not in authority over anyone, she was shown the future by God and that would make her a prophet. The only woman in the OT that actually ruled the nation of Israel was an evil woman who was not suppose to be there. All writers of the bible are men, all priest were men, the 12 apostles all men, so it does not seem out of order that God would want men to led in the church.

Six women in scripture are expressly stated as possessing the title of prophetess: five under the old covenant and one, Anna, is mentioned in the gospels. In addition, Philip is mentioned in Acts as having four daughters who prophesied which brings the number of prophetesses to ten. Conversely, a woman in the book of Revelations calls herself a prophetess but she is considered false.
On occasion, other women in scripture also prophesied, but were not expressly described as prophesying. These women include: Rachel (Gen. 30:24), Hannah (1 Sam. 2:1-10), Abigail (1 Samuel 25:29-31), Elisabeth (Luke 1:41-45), and Mary, the mother of Jesus (Luke 1:46-55).

If women are not to preach, If women are to keep quiet..Why did God use these women? That would make God a hypocrite to use women then tell women to shut up.

 

[wolfwint]

Six women in scripture are expressly stated as possessing the title of prophetess: five under the old covenant and one, Anna, is mentioned in the gospels. In addition, Philip is mentioned in Acts as having four daughters who prophesied which brings the number of prophetesses to ten. Conversely, a woman in the book of Revelations calls herself a prophetess but she is considered false.
On occasion, other women in scripture also prophesied, but were not expressly described as prophesying. These women include: Rachel (Gen. 30:24), Hannah (1 Sam. 2:1-10), Abigail (1 Samuel 25:29-31), Elisabeth (Luke 1:41-45), and Mary, the mother of Jesus (Luke 1:46-55).

If women are not to preach, If women are to keep quiet..Why did God use these women? That would make God a hypocrite to use women then tell women to shut up.

These woman has nothing to do with NT churches. The scripture is clear. Woman should not be Pastors! No scripture proof for that they should. But dont worry the most are supporting your view.

 

[Denadii]

These woman has nothing to do with NT churches. The scripture is clear. Woman should not be Pastors! No scripture proof for that they should. But dont worry the most are supporting your view.

Jesus Christ..The same yesterday today and forever. God does not change His standards..I asked for as list of women in the bible who were prophets preachers or ministers I did not specify which covenant

 

[Katy-follower]

I really believe that feminism is to blame. It rebels against the order that God's given to the world.

"Feminism was originally a positive movement, focused on giving women the basic rights God intends for every human being to have. Tragically, feminism now focuses on destroying all distinctions in the roles of men and women"

It's satan trying to destroy God's design. And women are being encouraged to take on roles of authority within the church, as pastors, which the scriptures say God did not permit.

 

[proverbs35]

Not many women leaders in the bible at all, but there were a few. Hannah was not in authority over anyone, she was shown the future by God and that would make her a prophet. The only woman in the OT that actually ruled the nation of Israel was an evil woman who was not suppose to be there. All writers of the bible are men, all priest were men, the 12 apostles all men, so it does not seem out of order that God would want men to led in the church.

1.) Queen Esther had some authority over the MEN and women of Israel. Queen Esther ordered (some translations say commanded) ALL the Jews in Susa to fast. ALL the Jews included the men - not just women.

- Then Esther sent this reply to Mordecai: 16“Go, gather together ALL THE JEWS who are in Susa, and fast for me. Do not eat or drink for three days, night or day. Es 4:15-16

Queen Esther (a woman) also gave Mordecai (a man) an order.

- Mordecai then went away and did everything as Esther had ordered him. Es 4:17

- Esther appointed Mordecai over Haman’s estate. Es 8:2

Although she didn't do it by herself, Queen Esther wrote with FULL AUTHORITY a second letter for the Jewish men and women concerning Purim in 127 provinces of Xerxes’ kingdom.

- So Queen Esther, daughter of Abihail, along with Mordecai the Jew, wrote with full authority to confirm this second letter concerning Purim. 30And Mordecai sent letters to all the Jews in the 127 provinces of Xerxes’ kingdom—words of goodwill and assurance— 31to establish these days of Purim at their designated times, as Mordecai the Jew and Queen Esther had decreed for them, and as they had established for themselves and their descendants in regard to their times of fasting and lamentation Es 9:29-31

Queen Esther (a woman) wrote law for the Jews about Purim. Queen Esther was a lawmaker. Modern Jews still celebrate Purim.

- 32 ESTHER’S DECREE confirmed these regulations about Purim, and it was written down in the records. Es 9:32.

2.) Before Kings governed (ruled) Israel, Israel was governed (ruled) by judges.
Judges were a type of ruler/government official. One of the definitions listed for the Hebrew word SHAPHAT (Strong's 8199) that gets translated into English as "judge" is ruler.

Now Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lappidoth, was JUDGING Israel at that time (Judges 4:4). The Hebrew word for JUDGING in Judges 4:4 is Strong's #8199: shaphat.

www.bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Lexicon.show/ID/H8199/shaphat.htm

Therefore, it's not accurate to claim that "the only woman in the OT that actually ruled the nation of Israel was an evil woman who was not suppose to be there." Both Deborah and Esther had some authority over men in Israel, and neither one was evil. Both Deborah and Esther were virtuous women used by God for his glory.

3.) Speaking of evil - most of the kings of Israel were evil: Jeroboam (son of Nebat), Jeroboam's son - Nadab, Baasha, Zimri, Omri, Ahab, Ahaziah, Johoahaz, Jehoash, Jeroboam II, Zechariah, Menahem, Pekahiah, Pekah, Ahaz, Manasseh, Amon, Jehoiakim and Zedekiah.

www.gotquestions.org/kings-Israel-Judah.html

 

[wolfwint]

1.) Queen Esther had some authority over the MEN and women of Israel. Queen Esther ordered (some translations say commanded) ALL the Jews in Susa to fast. ALL the Jews included the men - not just women.

- Then Esther sent this reply to Mordecai: 16“Go, gather together ALL THE JEWS who are in Susa, and fast for me. Do not eat or drink for three days, night or day. Es 4:15-16

Queen Esther (a woman) also gave Mordecai (a man) an order.

- Mordecai then went away and did everything as Esther had ordered him. Es 4:17

- Esther appointed Mordecai over Haman’s estate. Es 8:2

Although she didn't do it by herself, Queen Esther wrote with FULL AUTHORITY a second letter for the Jewish men and women concerning Purim in 127 provinces of Xerxes’ kingdom.

- So Queen Esther, daughter of Abihail, along with Mordecai the Jew, wrote with full authority to confirm this second letter concerning Purim. 30And Mordecai sent letters to all the Jews in the 127 provinces of Xerxes’ kingdom—words of goodwill and assurance— 31to establish these days of Purim at their designated times, as Mordecai the Jew and Queen Esther had decreed for them, and as they had established for themselves and their descendants in regard to their times of fasting and lamentation Es 9:29-31

Queen Esther (a woman) wrote law for the Jews about Purim. Queen Esther was a lawmaker. Modern Jews still celebrate Purim.

- 32 ESTHER’S DECREE confirmed these regulations about Purim, and it was written down in the records. Es 9:32.

2.) Before Kings governed (ruled) Israel, Israel was governed (ruled) by judges.
Judges were a type of ruler/government official. One of the definitions listed for the Hebrew word SHAPHAT (Strong's 8199) that gets translated into English as "judge" is ruler.

Now Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lappidoth, was JUDGING Israel at that time (Judges 4:4). The Hebrew word for JUDGING in Judges 4:4 is Strong's #8199: shaphat.

www.bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Lexicon.show/ID/H8199/shaphat.htm

Therefore, it's not accurate to claim that "the only woman in the OT that actually ruled the nation of Israel was an evil woman who was not suppose to be there." Both Deborah and Esther had some authority over men in Israel, and neither one was evil. Both Deborah and Esther were virtuous women used by God for his glory.

3.) Speaking of evil - most of the kings of Israel were evil: Jeroboam (son of Nebat), Jeroboam's son - Nadab, Baasha, Zimri, Omri, Ahab, Ahaziah, Johoahaz, Jehoash, Jeroboam II, Zechariah, Menahem, Pekahiah, Pekah, Ahaz, Manasseh, Amon, Jehoiakim and Zedekiah.

www.gotquestions.org/kings-Israel-Judah.html

You are right in your out lines. About EstherI would say that she alltimes submit to the king and should respect to the adwises of Mordocai.
Another thing is that the OT way which the Lord had with the Jews has nothing to do with the church. The NT commands concern that woman should not rule ore teach men has to do with the creation order and the sinfall of Eva. Not because the woman are not so good teacher ore Leader!

 

[wolfwint]

1.) Queen Esther had some authority over the MEN and women of Israel. Queen Esther ordered (some translations say commanded) ALL the Jews in Susa to fast. ALL the Jews included the men - not just women.

- Then Esther sent this reply to Mordecai: 16“Go, gather together ALL THE JEWS who are in Susa, and fast for me. Do not eat or drink for three days, night or day. Es 4:15-16

Queen Esther (a woman) also gave Mordecai (a man) an order.

- Mordecai then went away and did everything as Esther had ordered him. Es 4:17

- Esther appointed Mordecai over Haman’s estate. Es 8:2

Although she didn't do it by herself, Queen Esther wrote with FULL AUTHORITY a second letter for the Jewish men and women concerning Purim in 127 provinces of Xerxes’ kingdom.

- So Queen Esther, daughter of Abihail, along with Mordecai the Jew, wrote with full authority to confirm this second letter concerning Purim. 30And Mordecai sent letters to all the Jews in the 127 provinces of Xerxes’ kingdom—words of goodwill and assurance— 31to establish these days of Purim at their designated times, as Mordecai the Jew and Queen Esther had decreed for them, and as they had established for themselves and their descendants in regard to their times of fasting and lamentation Es 9:29-31

Queen Esther (a woman) wrote law for the Jews about Purim. Queen Esther was a lawmaker. Modern Jews still celebrate Purim.

- 32 ESTHER’S DECREE confirmed these regulations about Purim, and it was written down in the records. Es 9:32.

2.) Before Kings governed (ruled) Israel, Israel was governed (ruled) by judges.
Judges were a type of ruler/government official. One of the definitions listed for the Hebrew word SHAPHAT (Strong's 8199) that gets translated into English as "judge" is ruler.

Now Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lappidoth, was JUDGING Israel at that time (Judges 4:4). The Hebrew word for JUDGING in Judges 4:4 is Strong's #8199: shaphat.

www.bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Lexicon.show/ID/H8199/shaphat.htm

Therefore, it's not accurate to claim that "the only woman in the OT that actually ruled the nation of Israel was an evil woman who was not suppose to be there." Both Deborah and Esther had some authority over men in Israel, and neither one was evil. Both Deborah and Esther were virtuous women used by God for his glory.

3.) Speaking of evil - most of the kings of Israel were evil: Jeroboam (son of Nebat), Jeroboam's son - Nadab, Baasha, Zimri, Omri, Ahab, Ahaziah, Johoahaz, Jehoash, Jeroboam II, Zechariah, Menahem, Pekahiah, Pekah, Ahaz, Manasseh, Amon, Jehoiakim and Zedekiah.

www.gotquestions.org/kings-Israel-Judah.html

You are right in your out lines. About EstherI would say that she alltimes submit to the king and should respect to the adwises of Mordocai.
Another thing is that the OT way which the Lord had with the Jews has nothing to do with the church. The NT commands concern that woman should not rule ore teach men has to do with the creation order and the sinfall of Eva. Not because the woman are not so good teacher ore Leader!