Sinners?

[followjesus]

No, this is not going to be a "sinless perfection" thread, where I claim to no longer sin and the rest of you are on your own, LOL!

Rather, I'm wondering whether it's correct to call believers "sinners". Let's look at two definitions of the word:

Sinner (1): one who sins
Sinner (2): one who is unsaved, makes a habit of sinning and who lives a sinful lifestyle.

It is true that even those of us who are saved by Christ still sin. It's just that we gradually sin less and less and remove sinful habits from our lives through His power (although we will never get to a point in this life where we stop sinning completely).

Now some say that believers should not be referred to as "sinners", while others say that it is acceptable because technically we still sin. I think it depends on which of the above definitions one uses.

So what do you guys think? Is it OK to call believers "sinners"? There are no wrong answers.

I believe that we need to keep our eyes on our selves. if we notice Our own actions that are less that right before God, we have no room to be found calling anyone a sinner. until we see ourselves as "perfect" and without sin, which im not sure any of us are there, even if a person did see themselves thatway Jesus is our example and He wasnt pointing at sinners, but calling them to repentance.

 

[PeterJens]

And here you have it folks, peter believes there are excuses for sin.. (using a "cause" to justify sin is just the same as excusing your sin)
Nothing further needs to be said.. He just proved what we have been saying all along.

This response is a simple miss-reading of what I wrote and then
putting words in my mouth. I tried to very carefully say you can
identify a cause of bad behaviour but it does not excuse it.

It is odd that these words get read a different way and then
I am told I am proving what people have said in the past.

If representing people and reading their contributions is this
distorted it is little wonder things go wrong.

And then I am faced with I am innocent and Peter is so wrong.
I think all of it is just reading in what you want and then responding
to what has been read in, ignoring the contributor themselves.

Not a very honest way of dealing with anyone.
But then if people are not worried what the Lord thinks or takes of
these interactions, there is no incentive to being truthful.

 

[BillG]

This response is a simple miss-reading of what I wrote and then
putting words in my mouth. I tried to very carefully say you can
identify a cause of bad behaviour but it does not excuse it.

It is odd that these words get read a different way and then
I am told I am proving what people have said in the past.

If representing people and reading their contributions is this
distorted it is little wonder things go wrong.

And then I am faced with I am innocent and Peter is so wrong.
I think all of it is just reading in what you want and then responding
to what has been read in, ignoring the contributor themselves.

Not a very honest way of dealing with anyone.
But then if people are not worried what the Lord thinks or takes of
these interactions, there is no incentive to being truthful.

I am not an administrator on this site but guys Seriously?

Whatever you have between each other, whatever you are accusing each other off, whatever you are misunderstanding what each other has said, come to the point where you can settle it and if need be off this topic and PM each other.

There may be unbelievers on this thread looking at what we say and how we interact.

This thread was about sinners and was it ok to call beleivers sinners, no right or wrong answer.

The thread was not about accusing others as being sinners.

I am sorry if I upset either you Peter or EG.

 

[FreeNChrist]

I believe that we need to keep our eyes on our selves. if we notice Our own actions that are less that right before God, we have no room to be found calling anyone a sinner. until we see ourselves as "perfect" and without sin, which im not sure any of us are there, even if a person did see themselves thatway Jesus is our example and He wasnt pointing at sinners, but calling them to repentance.

Christians are not called to be navel gazers. We are called to fix our eyes upon our Lord God and Savior Jesus Christ....the author and perfecter of our faith. (Heb 12:2)

 

[PeterJens]

Christians are not called to be navel gazers. We are called to fix our eyes upon our Lord God and Savior Jesus Christ....the author and perfecter of our faith. (Heb 12:2)

We reign with Christ on the thrones of hearts. In this place we both need to be
aware of who we are and who Christ is. Because both are true, there is never
a black and white answer to not be navel gazers or only looking to God.

Little wonder both situations go wrong.

 

[PeterJens]

I am sorry if I upset either you Peter or EG.

Hi BillG, you have not upset me.

I am always stunned by what people claim, and then want me to respond as if I have
done anything.

Is Christ reigning with us on our throne?
Is the battle of self so strong because we still want so much that we have not yet
received, and God will give it to us as a right as a child of God?

I am always amazed at how much more there is to learn about who I am, and how God
wants me to walk with Him. There will always be wounds that need binding and healing,
but Christ calls us to bear our wounds in love, and know His love strengthening us as we
bear them.

To know Christ is to know the cross, and the victory His love bought for all of us to walk
in, knowing we are accepted and loved, to walk in righteousness, one with another.

 

[FreeNChrist]

We reign with Christ on the thrones of hearts. In this place we both need to be
aware of who we are and who Christ is. Because both are true, there is never
a black and white answer to not be navel gazers or only looking to God.

Little wonder both situations go wrong.

Of course there is a black and white answer, it's Jesus Christ. If you want to examine yourself, do so to find if Jesus Christ is in you. Or have you failed the test? (2 Cor. 13:5)

For those who pass that test, if it pleases you to always and only please God, you can do as you please.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I am not an administrator on this site but guys Seriously?

Whatever you have between each other, whatever you are accusing each other off, whatever you are misunderstanding what each other has said, come to the point where you can settle it and if need be off this topic and PM each other.

There may be unbelievers on this thread looking at what we say and how we interact.

This thread was about sinners and was it ok to call beleivers sinners, no right or wrong answer.

The thread was not about accusing others as being sinners.

I am sorry if I upset either you Peter or EG.

as I said, I can not see his posts.. (I would not have seen this if you did not quote it)

No offense or upset here..

I do not know what people seem to think it is about me and Peter. it is not.. And this really gets old.. Sorry you had to see it.. But please, try to see it for what it is.. and look at the words said..

 

[blue_ladybug]

FOR ALL HAVE SINNED. Emphasis on "ALL". Yes people, shocking newsflash: even believers are sinners. Accept it, get over it and move on..

 

[blue_ladybug]

Maybe they think it's about you and Peter because you both keep replying to each other, even though you (I think) have him on ignore. Ignore means exactly that, to IGNORE his responses. As in, DO NOT REPLY TO THEM...lol ..So if you and Peter could do that, we'd ALL be alot happier..Like you said, this back and forth banter gets old. :/ And it's not just you and Peter, several others here do it too.

as I said, I can not see his posts.. (I would not have seen this if you did not quote it)

No offense or upset here..

I do not know what people seem to think it is about me and Peter. it is not.. And this really gets old.. Sorry you had to see it.. But please, try to see it for what it is.. and look at the words said..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Maybe they think it's about you and Peter because you both keep replying to each other, even though you (I think) have him on ignore. Ignore means exactly that, to IGNORE his responses. As in, DO NOT REPLY TO THEM...lol ..So if you and Peter could do that, we'd ALL be alot happier..Like you said, this back and forth banter gets old. :/ And it's not just you and Peter, several others here do it too.

I have the right to respond to doctrinal issues, especially if many people are responding also.

And if other people would stop responding to him also. that would help.

 

[PeterJens]

Of course there is a black and white answer, it's Jesus Christ. If you want to examine yourself, do so to find if Jesus Christ is in you. Or have you failed the test? (2 Cor. 13:5)

For those who pass that test, if it pleases you to always and only please God, you can do as you please.

It sounds like you are suggesting being aware of who we are and how we function is
wrong. So when you feel an impulse to do something you should just do it?
If a thought occurs to you, then it is the right thing to do, because it is wrong to
examine what is happening.

What if you feel hungry, or tired, or thirsty? Should we respond immediately or look
at what is happening and respond appropriately?

Now if we are to be aware of ourselves to just function as human beings, I do not
get your point at all. Is this some special superspiritual language that ignores everything
about living life and being self aware or even how we look in the morning, clothes, washing,
and we should just look to God. What about work and helping others, and working out how
we can deliver help with the resources at hand?

I hope I have shown this language is plainly absurd, and belongs to a super-spiritual world
that does not exist, yet you seem so absolutely certain you are right, as usual.

You seem to display no caution, just following your first thought without self examination,
that this might not actually work.

 

[PeterJens]

I have the right to respond to doctrinal issues, especially if many people are responding also.
And if other people would stop responding to him also. that would help.

Lol. On a discussion forum, the idea is we discuss things out in the open and try and
represent each other fairly. I hope I succeed in doing this, and I am always open to
correction. So please bear with one another and their weaknesses.

I will try and bear with mine, which appears to be unknown offences which I have commited.
God bless you all, and may as past sinners we might walk more fully in Christs love and
forgiveness, Amen. And please forgive me if I have upset you or said something inappropriate.

Sometimes just quoting scripture causes hurt, but then this is Gods conviction that we need
to deal with. The prophets of old were persecuted, ostracised, and killed for doing this, so why
should it be any different today. And great is the reward if we are reviled in this way for Christs
sake, Halleluyah.

 

[FreeNChrist]

It sounds like you are suggesting being aware of who we are and how we function is
wrong. So when you feel an impulse to do something you should just do it?
If a thought occurs to you, then it is the right thing to do, because it is wrong to
examine what is happening.

What if you feel hungry, or tired, or thirsty? Should we respond immediately or look
at what is happening and respond appropriately?

Now if we are to be aware of ourselves to just function as human beings, I do not
get your point at all. Is this some special superspiritual language that ignores everything
about living life and being self aware or even how we look in the morning, clothes, washing,
and we should just look to God. What about work and helping others, and working out how
we can deliver help with the resources at hand?

I hope I have shown this language is plainly absurd, and belongs to a super-spiritual world
that does not exist, yet you seem so absolutely certain you are right, as usual.

You seem to display no caution, just following your first thought without self examination,
that this might not actually work.

Who we are as Christians is very important. But a Christian won't discover who they are by looking at themselves.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Who we are as Christians is very important. But a Christian won't discover who they are by looking at themselves.

not if they are honest they would not.. Because alone, all they could see was the real them apart from Christ.

 

[BillG]

Who we are as Christians is very important. But a Christian won't discover who they are by looking at themselves.

Lets assume they did.
What would they discover?

 

[BillG]

not if they are honest they would not.. Because alone, all they could see was the real them apart from Christ.

Sorry I don't quite understand.

Can you explain it to me like I'm a five year old.

I often act like one

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Sorry I don't quite understand.

Can you explain it to me like I'm a five year old.

I often act like one

what does God say you are apart from him?

I guess I am using that as context.. we must see context if we are to understand where people are coming from.

so how should a christian see themselves, apart from God?

 

[BillG]

what does God say you are apart from him?

I guess I am using that as context.. we must see context if we are to understand where people are coming from.

so how should a christian see themselves, apart from God?

I am not sure how to answer that, given that I'm not fully sure what you are getting at.
Im not knocking your post.

My answer would be that a genuine believer couldn't or wouldn't to want to compenplate being apart from God. No matter where they are in their walk or what they are struggling with.

A Christian who looks at themselves with honesty may just see what they are lacking in Christ. When I am honest and look at myself I want God to reveal to me where I am lacking. Maybe not lacking as such but allowing him through the Holy Spirit to reveal to me where he wants work in me to conform me to the image of Christ.

 

[stonesoffire]

Apart from Him we can do nothing. He doesn't say we aren't anything. However, Paul did say there is nothing good in men.