Real Forgiveness

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Feb 20, 2016
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#1
Have Christians today forgotten what real forgiveness is? It seems so, because for one thing, one reason abuse is so widely spread in our churches is because we have a faulty understanding of what forgiveness actually is. Apparently, being accountable for your actions is not a good message. Forgiveness is not an excuse for someone to keep behaving badly with no consequences. Forgiveness requires genuine repentance and desire to change on the abuser's part.
 

Embankment

Senior Member
Feb 28, 2017
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#2
Jesus is accountable for sin.
It's not an excuse to sin but even the most cociensious person sins constantly. All we can do is rely on the Holy Spirit to guide use and direct us.
 
Feb 20, 2016
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#3
Those who know the Lord and study his Word know that he has such a heart of love for the downtrodden and the broken-hearted, and that he desires us to be free of every kind of bondage. God's Word is infallible, and God does not play mean little tricks on abuse victims. He NEVER says anything that would make it easier for a sinner to keep on sinning or an abuser to keep on abusing. To even suggest otherwise is to reveal a profound ignorance of God's divine nature.
 
Dec 19, 2009
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#4
Have Christians today forgotten what real forgiveness is? It seems so, because for one thing, one reason abuse is so widely spread in our churches is because we have a faulty understanding of what forgiveness actually is. Apparently, being accountable for your actions is not a good message. Forgiveness is not an excuse for someone to keep behaving badly with no consequences. Forgiveness requires genuine repentance and desire to change on the abuser's part.
Amen. People are tired of hearing me say this, perhaps, but if someone walks up to my door and kicks me in the shin every day, he's going to have to stop doing that before I forgive him.
 
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FreeNChrist

Guest
#5
Yep, we're tired of hearing you say it. If Jesus had taken that same view none of us would have forgiveness.
 
Feb 20, 2016
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#6
Biblically speaking, NO ONE gets forgiven without changing his ways and turning to God and godliness. The New Testament includes an additional requirement for meriting forgiveness - accepting Jesus as one's Lord and Savior (and no one who has genuinely done that can continue abusing others). Abusers would just love an excuse to obligate us to forgive them without the slightest effort to make amends, commitment to change, or anything expected of them at all. It's the Abuser's Dream Gig - to be able to commit one evil deed after another with impunity, and then pervert the Word of God by claiming that others have to repeatedly and unconditionally forgive her. This is utter nonsense.
 
Dec 19, 2009
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#7
Yep, we're tired of hearing you say it. If Jesus had taken that same view none of us would have forgiveness.
I think Jesus is the same way. If you keep committing the same sin over and over again, sooner or later he's going to have a word with you about it.
 
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FreeNChrist

Guest
#8
Biblically speaking, NO ONE gets forgiven without changing his ways and turning to God and godliness. The New Testament includes an additional requirement for meriting forgiveness - accepting Jesus as one's Lord and Savior (and no one who has genuinely done that can continue abusing others). Abusers would just love an excuse to obligate us to forgive them without the slightest effort to make amends, commitment to change, or anything expected of them at all. It's the Abuser's Dream Gig - to be able to commit one evil deed after another with impunity, and then pervert the Word of God by claiming that others have to repeatedly and unconditionally forgive her. This is utter nonsense.
No, that is utter nonsense. Nobody had "changed their way and turned to God" when Jesus shed His blood on the cross for the forgiveness of sins. And not only for our sins, but for the sins of the whole world. Nobody "merits" forgiveness or ever will. Forgiveness is not excusing. A battered wife can certainly forgive the abusing husband, but that does not mean she should excuse his behavior and continuing to let him beat her silly.
 
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FreeNChrist

Guest
#9
I think Jesus is the same way. If you keep committing the same sin over and over again, sooner or later he's going to have a word with you about it.
If it's the same sin over and over that gets His goat, then just change up the sin, and keep on keeping on I guess.
 
Feb 20, 2016
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#10
The Bible does in fact tell us that we should forgive as the Lord forgave us (Colossians 3:13; Ephesians 4:32). But there are requirements for forgiveness. If we read in more depth and in context about God forgiving us, including the hows, whys and under what circumstances, we will see that he only forgives us when we come to him in the spirit of remorse, change our lives through his Son, ask for forgiveness, and repent (CHANGE). So if we are to forgive others as God forgives us, then we are to forgive them AFTER they have shown genuine remorse by the grace of Jesus' cleansing blood, and AFTER they have repented (CHANGED), NOT BEFORE. That is the formula for forgiveness which God models for us, and that is the formula which he instructs us to follow.
 
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FreeNChrist

Guest
#12
The Bible does in fact tell us that we should forgive as the Lord forgave us (Colossians 3:13; Ephesians 4:32). But there are requirements for forgiveness. If we read in more depth and in context about God forgiving us, including the hows, whys and under what circumstances, we will see that he only forgives us when we come to him in the spirit of remorse, change our lives through his Son, ask for forgiveness, and repent (CHANGE). So if we are to forgive others as God forgives us, then we are to forgive them AFTER they have shown genuine remorse by the grace of Jesus' cleansing blood, and AFTER they have repented (CHANGED), NOT BEFORE. That is the formula for forgiveness which God models for us, and that is the formula which he instructs us to follow.
Sorry, forgiveness is not a transaction. And you should be glad it isn't because you don't have a thing to offer God that could pay for it.
 
Feb 20, 2016
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#14
In Luke 17:3, Jesus tells us very clearly that we are to forgive someone who sins against us IF he repents. He does NOT tell us to forgive everyone, including those who have absolutely no remorse and fully intend to continue abusing others and behaving badly. That would be preposterous and contradictory. God does not do nonsensical things that do not serve his ultimate purpose of bringing all men into his grace and his presence.
 
Feb 20, 2016
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#15
There are times that God will work through us in this way to bring a person into repentance and to him. By forgiving unremorseful evildoers, we are not helping them and we are not serving God's purposes. We are depriving them of the opportunity to repent and transform their lives, to truly accept Jesus as their Savior so their sins can be washed away, and to walk forever with our Father. By interfering with God's Law of Sowing and Reaping, we are preventing God's purpose from being fulfilled in that individual's life.
 
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FreeNChrist

Guest
#16
In Luke 17:3, Jesus tells us very clearly that we are to forgive someone who sins against us IF he repents. He does NOT tell us to forgive everyone, including those who have absolutely no remorse and fully intend to continue abusing others and behaving badly. That would be preposterous and contradictory. God does not do nonsensical things that do not serve his ultimate purpose of bringing all men into his grace and his presence.
Gods ways are not our ways. I'd say God's grace is pretty nonsensical in man's way of thinking. And yet it still serves His purposes.
 
Feb 20, 2016
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#19
The mystery that has been kept hidden for ages and generations, but is now disclosed to the Lord's people. - Colossians 1:26. One of the most important things I've learned about God is that, unlike the gods of manmade religions, he follows his own rules. And to say "God's ways are not our ways" is not only a copout, it misunderstands the context. God said that to demonstrate that his ways are more loving than ours, not because he says "do as I say, not as I do."
 
Feb 20, 2016
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#20
God does not want us to continue to be abused. And he does not want us to allow abusers to continue their abuse with no consequences. In fact, we are told numerous times to shun evildoers (some of these Scriptures are: Proverbs 22:10, Proverbs 22: 24, Proverbs 23:9, Proverbs 24: 25, Proverbs 25: 4-5, Proverbs 24:24, Proverbs 26:24-26, Psalm 37:9, Psalm 119:115, Proverbs 19:19, Matthew 18: 15-17, Titus 3:10-11, and 1 Corinthians 5:11).