Those Who Deny Sin in a Believer

[fredoheaven]

I would like to propose theory on this thread. That there are certain three groups involved and they are very hard to determine:
1. OSAS in Calvinistic context
2. OSAS in Non Calvinistic context
3. Lose/Temporary Salvationist

1 may sound like 2 yet it has distinction but mainly it differs to 3.
2 may sound like 1 yet has its distinction but it differs to 3
3 may sound like to 2 yet differs and ultimately differs in 1
I hope this theory helps.

God bless

 

[wsblind]

We may be running a race but we are also training for an eternity.

Spectacular saying. I wish I would have come up with that.

We are training for NOTHING if we think we are maintaining salvation,keeping ourselves saved or as one here, working towards a future salvation. A lifetime of wood,hay and stubble or ASHES. If we ever did have a moment of clarity and got saved.

 

[wsblind]

the only ones who reject this for the most part are those who

a. Believe they can lose salvation
b. Believe they must do good to keep it
c. Believe they must blend faith, works and be sinless after salvation

And it looks like those who are working for a future salvation would reject it also. And if one stops and thinks about, it is the exact same thing as someone who thinks they can lose salvation.

If a person believes that salvation can be lost, they are saying the exact same thing as a person who says ," We aren't really saved until the end."

There is nothing new under the sun. He just words loss of salvation a bit different. A person who believes salvation can be lost, has their fingers crossed just like the guy who crosses his fingers to get saved at the end.

But you and I both know, they KNOW they will make it........but everybody else is questionable.

 

[wsblind]

I would like to propose theory on this thread. That there are certain three groups involved and they are very hard to determine:
1. OSAS in Calvinistic context
2. OSAS in Non Calvinistic context
3. Lose/Temporary Salvationist

1 may sound like 2 yet it has distinction but mainly it differs to 3.
2 may sound like 1 yet has its distinction but it differs to 3
3 may sound like to 2 yet differs and ultimately differs in 1
I hope this theory helps.

God bless

My theory. 3 fights with 1. And 1 fights with 3.

Because those are the mainstream. And everybody is the camp of the mainstream.

#2 is basically unheard of (imagine that in the devils world?) and #3 can only hear #1 argument, because that is what they have been programmed to argue against.

The Christian belief of eternal security(#2) will pretty much always be looked at as "perseverance saints", because that is what #3 has been programmed to do.

If we just stop for a second and use our brains........#1 and #3 are the same thing.

one just says,"If you don't persevere, you lose the salvation you THOUGHT you had or were really never saved."

The other just says .....you will lose salvation.

 

[fredoheaven]

My theory. 3 fights with 1. And 1 fights with 3.

Because those are the mainstream. And everybody is the camp of the mainstream.

#2 is basically unheard of (imagine that in the devils world?) and #3 can only hear #1 argument, because that is what they have been programmed to argue against.

The Christian belief of eternal security(#2) will pretty much always be looked at as "perseverance saints", because that is what #3 has been programmed to do.

If we just stop for a second and use our brains........#1 and #3 are the same thing.

one just says,"If you don't persevere, you lose the salvation you THOUGHT you had or were really never saved."

The other just says .....you will lose salvation.

Thanks, so it seems no.2 is the winner...

 

[Sirk]

Sirk - at least you are open about your non-christian faith.

Boundaries matter, but you have none. How love and empathy are expressed matter,
but you do not honour them. You talk about christian language but deny its meaning.

If you reject all the foundations, we are only the same in label.
Judgement day will be a massive shock to you.

You will just be totally bewildered and lost. Nothing will make sense
and the lists will stream before your eyes. You will know them all,
but the fact things are not forgiven because you never resolved them
at the foot of the cross, will just be too late.

I have seen this sidestepping of love before, but it never works.
It is done because some relationship went south a long time ago
and any resolution has long gone, but changing all the reference
points makes it all make sense again. But on that day it will not.

Was it sexual immorality, theft, lying, deceit, envy, hatred that undid
you? I know it must be something to drive this insane long rabbit hole.

We are just children before our King with simple issues of walking in
the light or staying in the darkness. If we stay in the dark, that darkness
will become eternal. But Christ offers us a way out, through His death and
resurrection, and truly starting again. It has always been this straight forward,
and letting love flow becomes this simple.

So I invite anyone who wants to walk with Christ and get right with Him for
the Kingdom of heaven is at Hand.

you accuse just like Satan did in the garden. How sad.

 

[Homegrown]

blessings my man.
do you follow Jesus or Satana?

 

[JIMBO43]

Where do you get that? If a man confesses with his lips and believes in his heart that jesus died in the cross and rose from the dead and conquered sin and death and endeavors to make Jesus the Lord of his life he is made pure before God thru the blood of Jesus. It's not rocket science. You keep adding and adding and adding and adding.

No hes washed clean if he was made pure he wouldnt carry on to sin... only Jesus holy who was holy and pure did not sin...

 

[G00WZ]

We are no longer of a sin nature/slaves to it...its dead, and was defeated on the cross... the only time a person can become alive to sin is when they look back to the old man habits of the past, rather than focusing on the identity of the new man that they are now, and the spirit that lives in them... When a person truly knows who they are in Christ they don't sin, because its a new set of rules/ principalities and foundation that they are leaning on... Too many people focus on sinning vs not sinning rather than focusing on identity.. the more you focus on doing either you tend to do it anyways because you are subliminally training yourself for the fall.. gotta focus on renewing the mind to the new identity

 

[fredoheaven]

We are no longer of a sin nature/slaves to it...its dead, and was defeated on the cross... the only time a person can become alive to sin is when they look back to the old man habits of the past, rather than focusing on the identity of the new man that they are now, and the spirit that lives in them... When a person truly knows who they are in Christ they don't sin, because its a new set of rules/ principalities and foundation that they are leaning on... Too many people focus on sinning vs not sinning rather than focusing on identity.. the more you focus on doing either you tend to do it anyways because you are subliminally training yourself for the fall.. gotta focus on renewing the mind to the new identity

What do you mean "we are no longer of a sin nature..." What is sin nature?

Thanks

 

[G00WZ]

What do you mean "we are no longer of a sin nature..." What is sin nature?

Thanks

a sinful nature is simply put, away from God, living and drawing an identity and life from outside of truth. Seed produces more of its kind and when Adam and Eve ate the fruit they produced more of their sinful/ fallen kind until Jesus came and took us back and gave us a new identity and a new appraisal/ new worth ... He put the Kingdom within us, and Gods spirit is now in us. it says in 2 Corinthians 5:17 that we are new creations in Christ...a sinful nature is outside the will of God.

 

[G00WZ]

[SUP]Ephesians 4:22-24
22 [/SUP]throw off your old sinful nature and your former way of life, which is corrupted by lust and deception. [SUP]23 [/SUP]Instead, let the Spirit renew your thoughts and attitudes. [SUP]24 [/SUP]Put on your new nature, created to be like God—truly righteous and holy.

 

[PeterJens]

[SUP]Ephesians 4:22-24
22 [/SUP]throw off your old sinful nature and your former way of life, which is corrupted by lust and deception. [SUP]23 [/SUP]Instead, let the Spirit renew your thoughts and attitudes. [SUP]24 [/SUP]Put on your new nature, created to be like God—truly righteous and holy.

I was reading this this morning.

Paul makes it obvious, we are new creations, we have put off the old self and walk in
the new self.

I understand though people may have been in the church their whole lives, know all
the language but never let themselves feel or be real. Maybe Christ has not come
into their lives, just they learnt to be very social and conformist.

When a crisis comes and it all falls apart, they wonder at why they do not respond
as scripture suggests. Open up your hearts to the Lord and He will heal you.
Let you emotions express themselves and walk in the light and do not live in repression.

 

[fredoheaven]

a sinful nature is simply put, away from God, living and drawing an identity and life from outside of truth. Seed produces more of its kind and when Adam and Eve ate the fruit they produced more of their sinful/ fallen kind until Jesus came and took us back and gave us a new identity and a new appraisal/ new worth ... He put the Kingdom within us, and Gods spirit is now in us. it says in 2 Corinthians 5:17 that we are new creations in Christ...a sinful nature is outside the will of God.

Ok thanks, but can the new creature can still have that sinful nature? Is there possibility?

Thanks

 

[G00WZ]

Ok thanks, but can the new creature can still have that sinful nature? Is there possibility?

Thanks

no problem brother, and no they cannot have that sinful nature, its dead and defeated ,they can however, turn around and dig up the dead defeated sinful identity of the past from the grave and try to live from it if they want though.. it only causes death.. and as new creations in Christ we are just not configured to go backwards and live in corpses, we are to be alive in Christ... Romans 6:11 we are supposed to count ourselves dead to sin and alive to God.

 

[PeterJens]

Sinful nature

The sinful nature is driven by loneliness and hurt.
The hurt is things that upset us from the day we are born and the knowledge that
we are alone and not understood.

This creates in us a desire to fight and get what we can while we can before
someone takes it away. We justify sins because of the pain we have within.

With Christ and the cross declaring we are both loved and forgiven, if we open
up and acknowledge the pain within, God can heal us and make us whole, can
come into our lives and emotions and make us a new creation, welling up with
living water from His spirit, where not only are our hurts healed we can beart
others pain and the hurts they inflict on us because of their own pain and
loneliness. This is our cross, carried daily into a world of lost sinners, desiring
to be loved and understood, yet hurting and taking as they go along.

With Christ and us in communion on the throne of our hearts, we are a new
creation, a new dynamic of love and appreciation.

 

[Utah]

What does it feel like to be under this onslaught?

Odd that believers would participate in obvious denial of the Lords word.
Odd that believers would accuse me of lying and distorting that which is clear christian belief.
Odd that believers would deny Christ righteous intention for our lives.
Odd that my very integrity is being challenged when we are talking about what Gods word
says. If Gods word does not say what I am quoting I am irrelevant.
If Gods words says what I claim, and I am walking in it, then this is actually everything.

If you skip the Gods word meaning and jump on the speaker, at least one has admitted
Gods word is plain and simple. If your target is actually innocent of the claims of sin
and failing, all is lost.

Now I am in a privileged position knowing who I am and how I behave.
Once one is compromised into daily sin, then the argument is lost.
I would also doubt not only is the argument lost, but if you do not take
seriously you spiritual state so will be your faith.

Self righteousness ^^^^ personified in one single post.

 

[Utah]

The ability to intelligently reason can certainly help with bible study as it does with understanding other things. There are quite a number of people who have no respect for honest intelligent reasoning...they are angered by it. I posted a message on what I believed to be two particular ways of bible approach and my first response was to call me a nasty name. No answer or comment on what I had written...just called me a nasty name...apparently it made that person mad because I made sense.

I missed your initial post. Where is it?

 

[Utah]

And it looks like those who are working for a future salvation would reject it also. And if one stops and thinks about, it is the exact same thing as someone who thinks they can lose salvation.

If a person believes that salvation can be lost, they are saying the exact same thing as a person who says ," We aren't really saved until the end."

There is nothing new under the sun. He just words loss of salvation a bit different. A person who believes salvation can be lost, has their fingers crossed just like the guy who crosses his fingers to get saved at the end.

But you and I both know, they KNOW they will make it........but everybody else is questionable.

Folks who believe they can lose their salvation lack faith and understanding in Jesus. Either Jesus paid the price in full and one is saved, or Jesus did not pay the price in full and one can never be saved. Period.

 

[Grace777x70]

Self righteousness ^^^^ personified in one single post.

The sky is blue.....