Mental illness, demons and the BIBLE

[Ariel82]

2 Corinthians 10

For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh. For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ, and being ready to punish all disobedience when your obedience is fulfilled.

 

[jsr1221]

Far too many in the body blame demons and devils for their personal works of the flesh. This is because entire sanctification, transformation via the renewing of the mind are never taught any more. The line between Holy Spirit empowered sanctification and grace are not only blurred but invisible.

The devil or a demon never make anyone do anything. You do something because you want to.

Too many Christians use spirituality too many times to justify actions. It makes them feel better so that they can believe they don't have to take accountability for their actions. As George Costanza once said in Seinfeld, "Remember, Jerry. It's not a lie if you believe it."

 

[Depleted]

Yours is a funny interpretation.

Well start simply. Think how this applies to whom to trust to heal us from so-called mental illness; men or God? If God heals us, we are healed. If God has saved us, we are saved. Now some will mock us and say to us "Where is the word of the Lord? let it come." But we have not spoken wrongly before the Lord to hope in Him. So let us not be confounded, but let them be confounded, let us not be dismayed, but let them be dismayed.

I'd make a lousy translator for the Bible. I totally modernize it, (except for smiting. I just like that word.) lol

Is there a difference in your mind between "mental illness" and "physical illness?"

It's become so much less of a difference to me in the last 1.5 years, I'm hard-pressed to try and pinpoint any difference. Here's why.

Hubby had a major health crisis a year ago last Thanksgiving. To save him, he was completely sedated for four weeks, and then heavily sedated for another four weeks. (I saw him reacting to what was going on around him, including to me, but he has no memories of even that time.) Finally, he was taken off the ventilator, at which time it was okay for him to move about, so they eased up on the sedatives.

When he went off the vent, he was put on a trach. A few days later some doohickey was inserted into the trach so he could talk again. (He remembers that, so he really wasn't sedated anymore.) The speech therapist needed to check to see if he could talk, so she had him something about himself. He chose about how his boss treated him. His boss was an idiot and treated him horribly. He worked at a base for the military as a steamfitter. He spent a good five minutes practicing his voice by telling her something about who he is.

Only one problem. The only part that was true about the story of his life was he DID work at a base 15 years earlier as a steamfitter. And his boss was a great guy who liked him. (Liked him enough that he called him when he was in the hospital a couple of months later.)

Later on, I discovered that nurses were coming to his tropical island to help him. No, really. He thought he was on a tropical island even when he was talking to the speech therapist that day. He had "hospital induced hallucination." Never heard the term before, but he was off his rocker completely, other than an occasional reference to reality. (And, I'm not telling the bad stuff he thought happened.)

It's a medical condition that happens when someone has a serious health problem and is stuck in a hospital room for too long. It was very much mental, and yet it was very physical, so I don't see the difference between mental illness and physical illness all that clearly anymore.

But I do know this. God did a big time miracle for hubby (and for me, 'cause he's my hubby, and I love him very much.) I was told the odds of him surviving twice. The first night he had a 10% chance of surviving the night. A couple of weeks later he got an infection and had a 50% chance of surviving that night. (He was the sickest patient in an ICU with 35 patients.) Five months later, it was made clear to us that I'd have to learn how to insert a catheter, because the chances of him to ever use his bladder normally again was less likely than he survived that first night. The chance of him not needing a walker or a cane were equally as slim. And I never lost him, I never learned how to insert a catheter, his walker is now used when he wants to sit while cutting up a boat load of veggies in the kitchen, (counters are short for us, and he has sciatica), and his cane is dusty! (I refuse to dust it, unless he needs it again. My personal line in the sand. lol)

God did all that! And God used so many doctors, nurses, nurse's aids, PT's, OT's, technicians, and ambulance attendances to get him there, that we cannot walk through that same hospital for doctor appointments without running into staff we know!

God heals. He uses people to get it done sometimes.

And, all along I was absolutely as sure that it could have been God's will for hubby to go home, (be with God), instead of come home, (this home.)

I see no need for us to believe any of that. I know God is sovereign and will get his way no matter what, if we do or don't believe it.

I also have no doubt that all things work for the good of those who love the Lord and are called to HIS purposes.

 

[Miri]

Amen! But I must spread some rep around!

 

[JIMBO43]

Greater is he that is in you than he that is in the world....demons have zero power over believers....and contrary to Flip Wilson..the devil did not make us do it and or demons for that matter!

I see your following me around again.. mate wazz up have you got a bone to pick... ......read your bile in the last days those who had been held captive by the snare of the devil will be set free....

 

[dcontroversal]

I see your following me around again.. mate wazz up have you got a bone to pick... ......read your bile in the last days those who had been held captive by the snare of the devil will be set free....

Following you around....not quite pal.....geesh

 

[Depleted]

Possession requires supernatural intervention to have the demons cast out of a person

Demonically influenced people can by the help of the Holy Spirit learn the truth of God and tear down spiritual strongholds within their mind and hearts where the demons continue to whisper their lies.

Hatred is a spiritual stronghold that begins with anger and a refusal to forgive and give it to God before the sun sets. This leads to bitterness because people wonder why God isn't punishing the other person like they believe the other person deserves...judging others as unfit for forgiveness, etc.

The basis is refusing to give up their anger at the end of the day and trust in God and His justice. It stems from rebelling against God and that is how people give place to the devil in their lives. When they want to do their own thing instead of listening to God.

Satan will keep adding to the spiritual stronghold and though the person can not have a demon living inside of them, they can be demonically influenced by listening to the lies.

Possession normally happens to innocent people who are kidnapped by the enemy before they hear and believe the gospel.

Some demonically possessed people did nothing wrong but after they hear the gospel and accepted Jesus as savior, they have many spiritual strongholds that need to be torn down.

Demonically possessed people will have demons speaking with their mouths and look at the world through their eyes.

Demonically oppressed people will have the demons clinging externally to them and whisper lies to reinforce the spiritual chains of lies that bind them and keep them from experiencing the love, joy and peace found in Christ.

Ah. You're making more sense to me. (Or I'm getting it more, and you were making the same sense all along. I suspect that's closer to it.)

Still, got questions. (Oooo, sorry, 7seas. )

I've held onto things as a Christian I shouldn't have held onto. Seething wrath seems like child's play compared to what I was experience after being raped. All aimed at "those guys." When I was young, I heard a story about what a tribe of Indians (Native Americans) did to a rapist in their tribe. They'd cut down a tree right to the level where his groin met the stump, and then they'd take a large knife and drill his "family jewels" into that stump. They'd then walk away. It was up to that rapist where he'd take it from there. He could stay just like that, which guaranteed he'd die from exsanguination. (You can't cut it through without it bleeding out.) Or he could pull the knife out, lose the jewels, and tourniquet off what is left, leaving him a eunuch, with a serious likelihood that he'd never pee right again.

I spent months starting at that point in my head and making it worse.

I was already born again and begged God through the ordeal to let me die or save me before it happened. He did neither, so can't say I was happy with him either. (Recurring thought. "You were with me God. WHY DID YOU LET IT HAPPEN?")

Bitterness seems like a mild word too, but yeah, very bitter. And yet, God didn't let me go. I wanted to go, and he wouldn't. So I really don't get where a Christian can stay there until it takes over. I've tried. (I have never claimed to be the brightest bulb in the box.)

So what is the difference between me and those other believers that demons would pollute them so well, but were stopped with me? (I am pretty sure some of the stuff I envisioned doing to the rapists is outside my personality to come up with myself, so it may well have been a demon doing that to me.)

And why did my hubby's ex need to be prayed over, and I didn't? (I did go back to God and asked him to give me the will to want to be forgiven, as well as want to forgive those guys. So prayer was very much involved. I simply didn't need the laying on of hands, like she did.)

Again, not the brightest person, so I'm thinking you're saying that is the difference between possession and not, but I'm not sure.

And still back to "How do you know?" Seems reasonable to me, (even though I'm not as big on the free-will concept you believe.) But, it seems like this is about the same thing as figuring out what a Nephilim was. If you've been a believer long enough to know what Nephilim means, somewhere along the line, you're going to come up with your theory of what that looked like. In the end though, (at least with Nephilim), that's all it is -- a theory. Even if it's the best-known, most-believed theory, it's still only a theory.

 

[Ariel82]

i believe they would to.. finaly we have agreement that demons will block all things Good.. that why we must hope they dont leed us to lose our faith too...

I believe they can't lead people who have the Holy Spirit to lose their faith, but they make it so they have a dead faith where they are paralyze by fear and lies to do much food for themselves or others.

 

[Depleted]

Demons attack believers to keep them from doing the good works God wants them to do and help encourage others.

Its like a jealous boyfriend who would try and kill his girlfriend before letting her be happy with someone else.
.yes he can never have her, but he doesn't want her happy or living life without him either.

Could be it. Never understood them either. lol

 

[Depleted]

i believe they would to.. finaly we have agreement that demons will block all things Good.. that why we must hope they dont leed us to lose our faith too...

[h=1]Hebrews 11:1[/h][FONT=&quot]11 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.[/FONT]

I have God's faith that he can't lose.

 

[Depleted]

I know about spiritual stronghold because I had to tear down quite a few in my life and God has brought others who have gone through the same.

They describe it differently, but after praying with them and giving them the scriptures God gives me...I see a change in their life. I am not the only one who gives them the same message like "God really does love you" or "you need to forgive"

I know personally when I encounter the same Bible verse or lesson over and over in the course of my day. I know it's God telling me to pay attention, he wants me to learn that verse.

So when I meditate on the verse, he shows me how to use it to tear down a spiritual stronghold in my mind.

Others have told me it works like that for them too.

Same message, different ways God tries to teach me: dreams, people, scripture, circumstances.

A few days ago the message was "Be still and know I am God"

I was food shopping and there was a cross with that in the Easter aisle of walmart....hey if God can place it in my devotionals, in folks around me and on a plaque in walmart.., he might be telling me something.


(i figet a lot so being still is so not natural for me, lol)

I get to a point where when I'm thinking something out for too long, even when I'm beginning to get it, (most noticeable when it's that time of the year to pick out a healthcare plan, which requires reading 2-3 booklets at the same time and trying to catch how they're different) that my brain shuts off and goes Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!

I just hit that here. So I'll come back when the on-switch to my brain gets reset. (Don't think I'm giving up.)

 

[JIMBO43]

Hebrews 11:1

11 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

I have God's faith that he can't lose.

so then tell me why many here dont hope for salvation... ? or are you one of those too.?

 

[Ariel82]

Lynn, I can't say I know all the answers but sometimes miracles are done to strengthen the faith of those watching the miracle.

Some people need the support of others to overcome their strongholds...community intervention.

We are all different and God knows what we need to heal grow and thrive.

 

[Ariel82]

so then tell me why many here dont hope for salvation... ? or are you one of those too.?

I believe she is saying God wins every time.

He isn't a loser and we can trust in His love and power.

 

[Depleted]

so then tell me why many here dont hope for salvation... ? or are you one of those too.?

So, tell me why many here don't enjoy a good cuddle by a teddy bear.

Oh? You're unable to telepathically link to find out who does and who doesn't?

Hm, then same answer.

 

[Depleted]

let me quote the song from Star Trek Enterprise

Faith of the Heart

'It's been a long road getting from there to here'

I would insert the video but I don't think we are supposed to insert non-Christian songs?

maybe, but this song means something to me and has a great tune

here's the link to it if you want to hear it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0azMOJ-h_o

one line of the song is 'I've got strength of the soul, no one's gonna bend or break me'

that's the way I feel about following God

it's determination to get to a predetermined place

I kind of apply the words of the song to my relationship with God and I bet I am not the only person on the planet who sometimes takes songs and sees something in them and makes that kind of connection

it's a journey and while we have the same destination in mind, our roads are not all the same

lest anyone interpret that to mean more than one way to God? no, there is just Jesus

one reason it really bugs me when someone comes along and says 'you don't have faith' because I counter word of faith, is they have no clue about what a person has been through or how God may have tried them and the fire they may have been through

We're not supposed to post non Christian songs in the Music forum. This is BDF.

I used to sing along with that song every week, except the line "I can do anything." (I really would like to swim at the bottom of the ocean.)

My go-to non Christian song about my relationship with God is older-school than that.

[video=youtube;a8-6o_ultLg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8-6o_ultLg[/video]

Admittedly, only after I tried to leave, and he wouldn't let me.

 

[Depleted]

Far too many in the body blame demons and devils for their personal works of the flesh. This is because entire sanctification, transformation via the renewing of the mind are never taught any more. The line between Holy Spirit empowered sanctification and grace are not only blurred but invisible.

The devil or a demon never make anyone do anything. You do something because you want to.

How do you know?

 

[Depleted]

Haven't been here for quite some back. I come back and I see this stuff. I'm reminded why I left. Elijah battled depression. Depression isn't just a state of sadness. Anxiety isn't just a form of worrying. They are the two most common forms of mental illness. Rather than going off, I'll just say this. Our brains are the most complex organ. If someone has chemical imbalance, it just doesn't go away with a simple prayer. People with cancer and diabetes aren't given this "demon possession" nonsense. Christians die everyday of physical illness.

Mental illness is no different than physical. In the past, I'd get into it with those that were ignorant on the subject. Now? I realize I can't control how they react. I can only control how I act. And for those that really do believe mental illness is demon possession, then I pray that God uses you in some form regarding this subject.

You have been gone for a while, but you forgot to read before pronouncing judgement too.

Now read the thread, because it's all about what you just said.

 

[blue_ladybug]

We don't need to hope for salvation, because we ALREADY have it.. Pretty simple concept for even the simplest brain to understand..

so then tell me why many here dont hope for salvation... ? or are you one of those too.?

 

[blue_ladybug]

Anxiety and depression are NOT always forms of mental illness. MY depression came about through a continuous series of bad life events. And it's normal for people to get anxious or scared. I get anxious whenever I have a doctor's appt, or get my blood drawn, or when I go to the dentist. Does that mean I'm mentally ill? NOPE. And btw, a chemical imbalance does not equate into mental illness. It CAN be treated with both medicine AND prayer..