Mental illness, demons and the BIBLE

[Depleted]

No trick, see the verses as they are written.

(I'm going out of turn here, but was scrolling up, saw this, and didn't want to have to go back in pages to find what you quoted earlier.)

Jeremiah 17:5-17

[SUP]5 [/SUP]Thus saith the Lord; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the Lord.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For he shall be like the heath in the desert, and shall not see when good cometh; but shall inhabit the parched places in the wilderness, in a salt land and not inhabited.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Blessed is the man that trusteth in the Lord, and whose hope the Lord is.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For he shall be as a tree planted by the waters, and that spreadeth out her roots by the river, and shall not see when heat cometh, but her leaf shall be green; and shall not be careful in the year of drought, neither shall cease from yielding fruit.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
[SUP]10 [/SUP]I the Lord search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]As the partridge sitteth on eggs, and hatcheth them not; so he that getteth riches, and not by right, shall leave them in the midst of his days, and at his end shall be a fool.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]A glorious high throne from the beginning is the place of our sanctuary.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]O Lord, the hope of Israel, all that forsake thee shall be ashamed, and they that depart from me shall be written in the earth, because they have forsaken the Lord, the fountain of living waters.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Heal me, O Lord, and I shall be healed; save me, and I shall be saved: for thou art my praise.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Behold, they say unto me, Where is the word of the Lord? let it come now.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]As for me, I have not hastened from being a pastor to follow thee: neither have I desired the woeful day; thou knowest: that which came out of my lips was right before thee.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Be not a terror unto me: thou art my hope in the day of evil.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Let them be confounded that persecute me, but let not me be confounded: let them be dismayed, but let not me be dismayed: bring upon them the day of evil, and destroy them with double destruction.

Okay, but it's still not working for me.

This says --
- Cursed is the idiot who trusts in other people.
- Trust God because he's worth it.
- We're wicked idiots for trusting our own feelings, so trust God instead.
- You know how wicked I am, Lord, so heal me to be more like you.
- I will follow you, (forever, and ever, and ever)
- I know who you are so don't make me terrified of you.
- and then the good ole "smite my enemy" thing.

Yeah? Again. I don't see how it fits with what the topic is. (Told you. Unless I get what you get out of this, I'm lost as to how you think it relates.)

 

[Chokmahiel]

(I'm going out of turn here, but was scrolling up, saw this, and didn't want to have to go back in pages to find what you quoted earlier.)

Okay, but it's still not working for me.

This says --
- Cursed is the idiot who trusts in other people.
- Trust God because he's worth it.
- We're wicked idiots for trusting our own feelings, so trust God instead.
- You know how wicked I am, Lord, so heal me to be more like you.
- I will follow you, (forever, and ever, and ever)
- I know who you are so don't make me terrified of you.
- and then the good ole "smite my enemy" thing.

Yeah? Again. I don't see how it fits with what the topic is. (Told you. Unless I get what you get out of this, I'm lost as to how you think it relates.)

Yours is a funny interpretation.

Well start simply. Think how this applies to whom to trust to heal us from so-called mental illness; men or God? If God heals us, we are healed. If God has saved us, we are saved. Now some will mock us and say to us "Where is the word of the Lord? let it come." But we have not spoken wrongly before the Lord to hope in Him. So let us not be confounded, but let them be confounded, let us not be dismayed, but let them be dismayed.

 

[NayborBear]

I think they may be in a soul or flesh.

there is this interesting verse though

Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

I Thess.5:23

they may also just be hanging around making life difficult. they may be in people you work with or even are married to

starts to paint a picture of taking warnings in scripture to be aware of these things as serious business

I would liken the verse ya quoted here, to either 1 stalk of wheat, or 1 olive tree, or 1 "cluster" of grapes in a vineyard!

How many "grains" on 1 stalk of wheat, or how many "olives" on an olive tree? The answer would be, how willing one is to allow the "Divine Horticulturist", in His "forming" of you, and how 1 fits in His garden....Not, yours!

 

[Depleted]

I think there is a period of time when you are a new believer that you pray and wait upon the Lord to fill you with His Holy Spirit.

Like Job believed in God and did good in God's eyes. But it was totally different when God actually showed up.

I can't talk for everyone but I know personally in my own life as a new believer I was tormented by voices that would make me doubt and question God, His love, the Bible, myself, the world. So much so that I would become depressed.

However, when God appeared and I was filled with His Holy Spirit after accepting Jesus as my Lord and Savior. The voices were still there for a time, but they were external and I had an internal voice that told me God's truth of love, grace and mercy and what scripture really meant.

I believe the internal voice was the Holy Spirit and He helped me tear down the spiritual strongholds in my mind that war against the knowledge of God's love, goodness and grace.

It took years but the other external voice started to see I wasn't freaking out from their taunts and I wasn't listening and repeating their lies. They couldn't use me to hurt others like they use to be able to provoke me to do. They began to leave me alone.

One of the taunts they often said was "if you ever told anyone about us, they will just think you are crazy like your dad"

When I see them tormenting someone, I will feel moved to pray but often don't have the courage because I remember their taunts as a kid "if you want us to stop tormenting that person, we will just torment you instead"

Even now I hesitate to post this because, you never know how people will react.

I admit I can hear the taunts and lies of demons. what I am still learning is what God says and His truth to combat the lies.

For example:

Demons will say "you are worthless and no one could ever love you."

God says "I love you. I love you so much I sent Jesus to die on the cross for you. I made you for a purpose and believe you are a beautiful masterpiece, uniquely crafted by me"

He has shown me this truth via scriptures and the wonderful people He has placed in my life and answered prayers.

It's bedtime. God bless and keep you all.

The Stupid Voice doesn't taunt you much anymore?

I don't remember when it didn't. It still hits me with stupid stuff like, "The kitchen is a mess. That's more important than opening up Esword." "Hey! Free idea for your next book, but get to it now. God can wait." "Yeah, sure. Like God doesn't have more important things to worry about than you getting a parking spot close enough to your house after shopping. Let it go. He doesn't need to hear from you." "No one cares if John is getting better or dying. No one. Not even God." "What purpose do you serve for God? You can't do anything useful anymore, so God can't use you. If even God can't use you, you've got to be more useless than whale dung." "Oo, oo, oo! Beginning of the month! Much more important to pay the bills than to read a stupid Psalm."

And I absolutely know my husband John breaks out into laughter in the middle of full quiet in this house, so I have to ask him what was funny. He's reading either the Bible or a book by one Christian guy or another, and laughs because he was, once again, reminded that God really really loves him. He forgets! God has been telling him this since 1970, yet he still forgets. He still believes, sometimes, that God can't possibly love him. Makes me feel better when I forget too.

Stupid Voice is always there. I often wonder if that is a demon or just my deep inner Stupid Voice. (I've named it Stupid Voice because it needed a name. lol) I've even asked on this site if others get Stupid Voice too, but never got a solid answer. So, at least now we know it's not just us. Stupid Voice is really a thingy.

Fortunately, God is stronger than Stupid Voice.

 

[Ariel82]

Yeah Stupid voice still tries and get some words in, but as you said God is stronger.

It gets easier to tell the difference the closer we get to God through prayer and study of the Bible.

 

[Depleted]

I agree Lynn they sound demon possessed but not sure how you can tell if they were born again.

The wife might have "converted" to please her husband but never truly believed in her heart and the other man might have been baptised as a baby and consider himself a Christian but never really learned or believe the gospel.

We have many nominal Christians going through the motions and playing church, who aren't really born again and filled with the Holy Spirit.

I will have to research more, but I read a lot of articles years ago and it made sense to me and appeared to be based on scriptures. I will research and post and you can decide.

I can even post different denominational views if folks want to research the topic.

There are only two people in my life that I am absolutely sure are saved -- hubby and me. I'm 95% sure of quite a lot of other people, but I have known other believers for 36 years, who I was 100% sure were 36 years ago, and either I'm not sure now, or I'm very sure aren't now.

One of them went through seminary and taught hubby so much about the Lord. When we knew him, (I only knew him for a short time. Hubby knew him for years), he was married, just had a baby, and was struggling with losing weight and staying heterosexual. He's got a blog online hubby found. His baby has kids, gave up entirely on the weight issue, and the sexuality issue. He's still married to the same woman, but he's a homosexual Unitarian, who doesn't think it matters if God is or isn't.

Another friend of ours was the best preacher I've ever listened to. He wasn't trained to be a preacher, wasn't even a pastor. He was a lawyer back then, and brilliant. (He had to wait to turn 21 before passing the bar. That brilliant.) He taught us some great things about the Bible. (I will never forget his message on the Good Samaritan. We aren't the Samaritan. We're the guy mugged on the side of the road. Truly makes me appreciate that my neighbor is everyone.) He's a federal judge now. He also decided it's too hard to study the bible, so he'll just accept whatever the Catholic Church tells him to believe. His FB posts are usually about saints and having plenty of children to raise them up to be good Catholics.

I'm just not that good picking out which people are truly believers, and who is playing this game for a free eternal-vacation. BUT, I'm absolutely sure hubby and I are saved and will stay saved. And hubby has the same opinion. I'm figuring if he knows this about me, he'd know it about his first wife. (I, of course, don't like her, but that's because she hurt him deeply.)

Do you not know, for sure, your husband is saved? If there is anyone we're supposed to know in life, it seems like the spouse should be that person.

As for what kind of proof? I already showed what denomination I'm with, and don't buy their proof. I'd like proof from scripture, if possible. But, I think I've already proven I don't see scripture the same way many do. (I don't think it says anywhere that every believer gets healed from health problems. I suspect Chok was just trying to prove those verses say that God has-to, and I agree, however the has-to isn't linked to health problems. Stuff like that.) And we do agree that demons do inhabit people, so the proof is just being cut down to "What's the difference between that and possession?"

 

[Depleted]

my bad

apparently I was still trying to function in a sleep deprived state of mind even after the snooze. I don't like sleeping in the afternoon. just puts my whole system off. went to bed earlier last night and I feel better.

well, I still hold to what I said about got questions. it is a good site but not for deep studies, but a good starting point

MacArthur is not the be all and end all of teaching either. I am glad that you do not take his side just because you like him. Some people do that, which it seems you know, and just go along no matter what. They follow a teacher. Another human bean. (yes I know how I spelled that)

I am probably going to order that book this am along with a few others to take on a trip I'll be making in a couple of weeks.

Again, I would be leery of the word possession. I think that is not the right word to be using because that word indicates ownership and a Christian is not owned by the devil.

I didn't actually follow the link Ariel provided, I just saw the word 'questions' and concluded wrongly. So apologies on that one Ariel!

Really?

And I go to the YA and MG section of the library to find novels I went to take on trips. lol

As for possession? I own my car. I'll lose my car eventually. It is ownership, but how long it last and if there is life afterward is optional. I think of it as more the spoils of the enemy in a war. God gets his real estate back at the end because we know who wins this war.

 

[Ariel82]

Possession requires supernatural intervention to have the demons cast out of a person

Demonically influenced people can by the help of the Holy Spirit learn the truth of God and tear down spiritual strongholds within their mind and hearts where the demons continue to whisper their lies.

Hatred is a spiritual stronghold that begins with anger and a refusal to forgive and give it to God before the sun sets. This leads to bitterness because people wonder why God isn't punishing the other person like they believe the other person deserves...judging others as unfit for forgiveness, etc.

The basis is refusing to give up their anger at the end of the day and trust in God and His justice. It stems from rebelling against God and that is how people give place to the devil in their lives. When they want to do their own thing instead of listening to God.

Satan will keep adding to the spiritual stronghold and though the person can not have a demon living inside of them, they can be demonically influenced by listening to the lies.

Possession normally happens to innocent people who are kidnapped by the enemy before they hear and believe the gospel.

Some demonically possessed people did nothing wrong but after they hear the gospel and accepted Jesus as savior, they have many spiritual strongholds that need to be torn down.

Demonically possessed people will have demons speaking with their mouths and look at the world through their eyes.

Demonically oppressed people will have the demons clinging externally to them and whisper lies to reinforce the spiritual chains of lies that bind them and keep them from experiencing the love, joy and peace found in Christ.

 

[NayborBear]

Yours is a funny interpretation.

Well start simply. Think how this applies to whom to trust to heal us from so-called mental illness; men or God? If God heals us, we are healed. If God has saved us, we are saved. Now some will mock us and say to us "Where is the word of the Lord? let it come." But we have not spoken wrongly before the Lord to hope in Him. So let us not be confounded, but let them be confounded, let us not be dismayed, but let them be dismayed.

This reminds me of a "Quote" from General "Georgie", addressing his soldiers: "Your job, in not to die for your God! Your job, is to make the "other" guys, DIE for THEIR god!"

 

[Depleted]

I had plenty of spiritual conflict in my life as well that did not really rear its ugly head until I was a young adult. I was saved quite young and baptized around 13 or 14.

it was not until I really started getting serious for God that the conflict, which in my opinion had been waiting in the wings all along, popped up. 'You're no good' 'God does not love you and no one loves you' 'you should never have been born' 'nothing you do means anything' and so on. they were not really my thoughts but I had to deal with them.

it's very typical that demons isolate and try to make a person think they are somehow different, when really they are not, and the other typical deception they create is to make people think they are the opposite of rejected. they get them to think they are special, have special revelation, and God has chosen them for some task that only they can perform

both are deceptions and if one does not work then the other will

these are extremes, but far more common then not.

Which, is why we need to dig deep into God's word, and reject the lies and replace with truth

As you say in your post

I really do not know if Stupid Voice is me or a demon. I don't know this because I have a tendency to know what my limits are. I cannot swim to the bottom of the ocean. I cannot get html or Photoshop. I cannot lose my salvation because I have to persevere. (God won't let me stop.)

But Satan done lost me, when God saved me. Shouldn't he be looking to keep what he already has than waste his time trying to get those he can never get?

It's not a biblical argument. It just seems like common sense to me. Don't try and buy a Rolls Royce when you don't have that kind of money to buy one. It's a waste of time and energy.

 

[Depleted]

I believe there is a difference between spiritual strongholds and demonic possession.

Spiritual strongholds get established in your mind when you believe the lies the demons whisper to you.
.they don't possess or control you. You still have free will to reject the lies and tear down the strongholds.

However many people cling to their spiritual strongholds that war against the knowledge of God and that causes folks to act like they are demonic. They are under demonic influences but that is not the same as possession.

Possession is when the demons has control of a person against their will and can only happen when they do NOT have the Holy Spirit indwelling.

Satanic rituals involve the rape of children to introduce demons into their body and to break their minds. The Bible mentions temple prositutes of the false gods.

(Don't let SevenSeas know this, but I didn't know what a spiritual stronghold was exactly, so I googled it and found out from GotQuestions. )

Okay, makes sense in a way. (And I hear Ariel singing "Alleluia" loudly all the way from here.)

One other question though. How do you know that's what happens? I've never seen a before and after of someone who was demonically influenced to see if this works like that.

(I did know satanists at one time. Kind of struck me as schmucks more than trying to destroy children.)

 

[Ariel82]

Demons attack believers to keep them from doing the good works God wants them to do and help encourage others.

Its like a jealous boyfriend who would try and kill his girlfriend before letting her be happy with someone else.
.yes he can never have her, but he doesn't want her happy or living life without him either.

 

[sevenseas]

Really?

And I go to the YA and MG section of the library to find novels I went to take on trips. lol

As for possession? I own my car. I'll lose my car eventually. It is ownership, but how long it last and if there is life afterward is optional. I think of it as more the spoils of the enemy in a war. God gets his real estate back at the end because we know who wins this war.

yeah really

do cars come in three parts? (teasing you here)

 

[JIMBO43]

Demons attack believers to keep them from doing the good works God wants them to do and help encourage others.

Its like a jealous boyfriend who would try and kill his girlfriend before letting her be happy with someone else.
.yes he can never have her, but he doesn't want her happy or living life without him either.

i believe they would to.. finaly we have agreement that demons will block all things Good.. that why we must hope they dont leed us to lose our faith too...

 

[dcontroversal]

Greater is he that is in you than he that is in the world....demons have zero power over believers....and contrary to Flip Wilson..the devil did not make us do it and or demons for that matter!

 

[Ariel82]

I know about spiritual stronghold because I had to tear down quite a few in my life and God has brought others who have gone through the same.

They describe it differently, but after praying with them and giving them the scriptures God gives me...I see a change in their life. I am not the only one who gives them the same message like "God really does love you" or "you need to forgive"

I know personally when I encounter the same Bible verse or lesson over and over in the course of my day. I know it's God telling me to pay attention, he wants me to learn that verse.

So when I meditate on the verse, he shows me how to use it to tear down a spiritual stronghold in my mind.

Others have told me it works like that for them too.

Same message, different ways God tries to teach me: dreams, people, scripture, circumstances.

A few days ago the message was "Be still and know I am God"

I was food shopping and there was a cross with that in the Easter aisle of walmart....hey if God can place it in my devotionals, in folks around me and on a plaque in walmart.., he might be telling me something.


(i figet a lot so being still is so not natural for me, lol)

 

[sevenseas]

I really do not know if Stupid Voice is me or a demon. I don't know this because I have a tendency to know what my limits are. I cannot swim to the bottom of the ocean. I cannot get html or Photoshop. I cannot lose my salvation because I have to persevere. (God won't let me stop.)

But Satan done lost me, when God saved me. Shouldn't he be looking to keep what he already has than waste his time trying to get those he can never get?

It's not a biblical argument. It just seems like common sense to me. Don't try and buy a Rolls Royce when you don't have that kind of money to buy one. It's a waste of time and energy.

let me quote the song from Star Trek Enterprise

Faith of the Heart

'It's been a long road getting from there to here'

I would insert the video but I don't think we are supposed to insert non-Christian songs?

maybe, but this song means something to me and has a great tune

here's the link to it if you want to hear it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0azMOJ-h_o

one line of the song is 'I've got strength of the soul, no one's gonna bend or break me'

that's the way I feel about following God

it's determination to get to a predetermined place

I kind of apply the words of the song to my relationship with God and I bet I am not the only person on the planet who sometimes takes songs and sees something in them and makes that kind of connection

it's a journey and while we have the same destination in mind, our roads are not all the same

lest anyone interpret that to mean more than one way to God? no, there is just Jesus

one reason it really bugs me when someone comes along and says 'you don't have faith' because I counter word of faith, is they have no clue about what a person has been through or how God may have tried them and the fire they may have been through

 

[sevenseas]

(Don't let SevenSeas know this, but I didn't know what a spiritual stronghold was exactly, so I googled it and found out from GotQuestions. )

I don't know nuttin

 

[truthhurts]

Far too many in the body blame demons and devils for their personal works of the flesh. This is because entire sanctification, transformation via the renewing of the mind are never taught any more. The line between Holy Spirit empowered sanctification and grace are not only blurred but invisible.

The devil or a demon never make anyone do anything. You do something because you want to.

 

[jsr1221]

Haven't been here for quite some back. I come back and I see this stuff. I'm reminded why I left. Elijah battled depression. Depression isn't just a state of sadness. Anxiety isn't just a form of worrying. They are the two most common forms of mental illness. Rather than going off, I'll just say this. Our brains are the most complex organ. If someone has chemical imbalance, it just doesn't go away with a simple prayer. People with cancer and diabetes aren't given this "demon possession" nonsense. Christians die everyday of physical illness.

Mental illness is no different than physical. In the past, I'd get into it with those that were ignorant on the subject. Now? I realize I can't control how they react. I can only control how I act. And for those that really do believe mental illness is demon possession, then I pray that God uses you in some form regarding this subject.