Sermon on the mount - life or legalistic junk

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Yahshua

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2013
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You are arrogant in assuming that you are the only one who sees God as a whole. Most people on this site do.

All of us are aware that God is a holy and just God. That is why some of us rejoice in the fact that He has shown grace towards us by sending His Son to die for us so that we might be justified in His sight solely through the righteousness of Christ Jesus our Lord (Rom 3.21-5.21). We do not thereby forget the justice of God. Indeed we pay it full honour. We admit that we can do nothing of ourselves in removing the penalty of sin.

Then because we are forgiven we experience His power enabling us gradually to overcome sin so that we may be ready to face His judgment on believers for what we have become. But that is the judgment of a Father on His children rather than a Judge on sinners
No, I think you're projecting your own arrogance onto me (apparently) because you've claimed I've assumed myself to be the only one who sees God as a whole, when I never said that. That's all in your mind because you can't point to anything I wrote where I assume that.

Next you judge yourself and the rest here as if I mentioned anyone on this site was guilty of that. I specifically said "much of today's church". So curious; why do you feel the need to speak for the whole church or "ALL" of the folks here on this site? I think that's pretty arrogant to do, which is why I'm careful to use general terms like "much" or "most". If what I said didn't apply to you then would you have reason to feel condemnation?. Does what I said apply to you?
 

Yahshua

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2013
2,758
715
113
You'll never grow up by remaining stuck under that old schoolmaster.

Galatians 3:23-25 - "But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster."
You do realize that you just established the foundation again, don't you? You did exactly what Hebrews says to stop doing...Galatians 3:23-25 is the foundation, upon which no other foundation can be laid.


1 Corinthians 3:11
For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ.


...But what happens afterwards? What's supposed to happen with the believer AFTER the foundation is laid?


1 Corinthians 3:12-13
Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.


This is what the Hebrews passage is talking about; that the mature themselves build upon "the foundation" by training in righteousness (i.e. *discerning good from evil*), while babes keep having to re-lay the same foundation over and over and over again (i.e. Christ and the cross). So what does the following passage mean to you (I've re-posted the points again)?


Hebrews 5:12-6:1
12 In fact, though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you the elementary truths of God’s word all over again. You need milk, not solid food! 13 Anyone who lives on milk, being still an infant, is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness. 14 But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil.

6:1) Therefore let us move beyond the elementary teachings about Christ and be taken forward to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death, and of faith in God,


- Babes are stuck on the level of "elementary truths", and still aren't ready to be taught about righteousness

- The "elementary truths" are the elementary teachings about Christ (i.e. Christ and the cross)

- But becoming mature is moving past the elementary teachings and not repeatedly laying the same foundation

- That the mature train themselves *constantly* to know the difference between good and evil
 
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FreeNChrist

Guest
You do realize that you just established the foundation again, don't you? You did exactly what Hebrews says to stop doing...Galatians 3:23-25 is the foundation, upon which no other foundation can be laid.


1 Corinthians 3:11
For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ.


...But what happens afterwards? What's supposed to happen with the believer AFTER the foundation is laid?


1 Corinthians 3:12-13
Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.


This is what the Hebrews passage is talking about; that the mature themselves build upon "the foundation" by training in righteousness (i.e. *discerning good from evil*), while babes keep having to re-lay the same foundation over and over and over again (i.e. Christ and the cross). So what does the following passage mean to you (I've re-posted the points again)?


Hebrews 5:12-6:1
12 In fact, though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you the elementary truths of God’s word all over again. You need milk, not solid food! 13 Anyone who lives on milk, being still an infant, is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness. 14 But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil.

6:1) Therefore let us move beyond the elementary teachings about Christ and be taken forward to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death, and of faith in God,


- Babes are stuck on the level of "elementary truths", and still aren't ready to be taught about righteousness

- The "elementary truths" are the elementary teachings about Christ (i.e. Christ and the cross)

- But becoming mature is moving past the elementary teachings and not repeatedly laying the same foundation

- That the mature train themselves *constantly* to know the difference between good and evil
Christians are no longer under that old schoolmaster, it's why we can and do grow in grace. It's those who remain stuck under that old obsolete system that will never grow to know the difference between good and evil.
 
Feb 24, 2015
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Christians are no longer under that old schoolmaster, it's why we can and do grow in grace. It's those who remain stuck under that old obsolete system that will never grow to know the difference between good and evil.
The law is the gate keeper to the Kingdom. Unless you submit to its ways you
cannot enter.
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
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Christ Himself is the Way - not the law of Moses. Christians have died to the Law of Moses, been released from it and are not under it anymore but under grace. Romans 7:4-7 ; Romans 6:14

Living by the law of Moses is eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. That is exactly the world's system of belief. We live by Christ Himself in us now.
 

slave

Senior Member
Mar 20, 2015
6,307
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In the first eight chapters of Romans two aspects of salvation are presented to us:firstly, the forgiveness of our sins, and secondly, our deliverance from sin. But now, inkeeping with this fact, we must notice a further difference.

In the first part of Romans 1 to 8, we twice have reference to the Blood of the LordJesus, in chapter 3:25 and in chapter 5:9. In the second, a new idea is introduced inchapter 6:6, where we are said to have been "crucified" with Christ. The argument of thefirst part gathers round that aspect of the work of the Lord Jesus which is represented by`the Blood' shed for our justification through "the remission of sins". This terminology ishowever not carried on into the second section, where the argument centers now in theaspect of His work represented by `the Cross', that is to say, by our union with Christ inHis death, burial and resurrection. This distinction is a valuable one. We shall see that theBlood deals with what we have done, whereas the Cross deals with what we are. TheBlood disposes of our sins, while the Cross strikes at the root of our capacity for sin.

We need not butt-heads over two truths, acting as if one over-rules the other.. One is God's role thru Jesus Christ; the other is our role, based on Jesus Christ.
 

slave

Senior Member
Mar 20, 2015
6,307
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It is God's holiness, God's righteousness, which demands that a sinless life should begiven for man. There is life in the Blood, and that Blood has to be poured out for me, formy sins. God is the One who requires it to be so. God is the One who demands that theBlood be presented, in order to satisfy His own righteousness, and it is He who says:`When I see the blood', I will pass over you.' The Blood of Christ wholly satisfies God.


Now I desire to say a word at this point to my younger brethren in the Lord, for it ishere that we often get into difficulties. As unbelievers we may have been whollyuntroubled by our conscience until the Word of God began to arouse us. Our consciencewas dead, and those with dead consciences are certainly of no use to God. But later, whenwe believed, our awakened conscience may have become acutely sensitive, and this canconstitute a real problem to us. The sense of sin and guilt can become so great, so terrible,as almost to cripple us by causing us to lose sight of the true effectiveness of the Blood. Itseems to us that our sins are so real, and some particular sin may trouble us so manytimes, that we come to the point where to us our sins loom larger than the Blood of Christ.


Now the whole trouble with us is that we are trying to sense it; we are trying to feel itsvalue and to estimate subjectively what the Blood is for us. We cannot do it; it does notwork that way. The Blood is first for God to see. We then have to accept God's assessment of it. In doing so we shall find our assessment. If instead we try to come to an assessment byway of our feelings we get nothing; we remain in darkness. No, it is a matter of faith inGod's Word. We have to believe that the Blood is precious to God because He says it isso (1 Peter 1:18,19). If God can accept the Blood as a payment for our sins and as theprice of our redemption, then we can rest assured that the debt has been paid. If God issatisfied with the Blood, then the Blood must be acceptable. Our assessment of it is onlyaccording to His assessment -- neither more nor less. It cannot, of course, be more, but it



must not be less. Let us remember that He is holy and He is righteous, and that a holy andrighteous God has the right to say that the Blood is acceptable in His eyes and has fullysatisfied Him.

 

slave

Senior Member
Mar 20, 2015
6,307
1,097
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The Blood has satisfied God; it must satisfy us also. It has therefore a second valuethat is manward in the cleansing of our conscience. When we come to the Epistle to theHebrews we find that the Blood does this. We are to have "hearts sprinkled from an evilconscience" (Hebrews 10:22).


This is most important. Look carefully at what it says. The writer does not tell us thatthe Blood of the Lord Jesus cleanses our hearts, an then stop there in his statement. Weare wrong to connect the heart with the Blood in quite that way. It may show amisunderstanding of the sphere in which the Blood operates to pray, `Lord, cleanse myheart from sin by Thy Blood'. The heart, God says, is "desperately sick" (Jeremiah 17:9),and He must do something more fundamental than cleanse it: He must give us a new one.
We do not wash and iron clothing that we are going to throw away. As we shallshortly see, the `flesh' is too bad to be cleansed; it must be crucified. The work of Godwithin us must be something wholly new. "A new heart also will I give you, and a newspirit will I put within you" (Ezekiel 36:26).


No, I do not find it stated that the Blood cleanses our hearts. Its work is not subjectivein that way, but wholly objective, before God. True, the cleansing work of the Blood isseen here in Hebrew 10 to have reference to the heart, but it is in relation to theconscience. "Having our hearts sprinkled from a evil conscience".

What then is themeaning of this?

It means that there was something intervening between myself and God, as a result ofwhich I had an evil conscience whenever I sought to approach Him. It was constantlyreminding me of the barrier that stood between myself and Him. But now, through theoperation of the precious Blood, something new has been effected before God which hasremoved that barrier, and God has made that fact known to me in His Word. When thathas been believed in and accepted, my conscience is at once cleared and my sense of guiltremoved, and I have no more an evil conscience toward God.


Every one of us knows what a precious thing it is to have a conscience void of offensein our dealings with God. A heart of faith and a conscience clear of any and everyaccusation are both equally essential to us, since they are interdependent. As soon as wefind our conscience is uneasy our faith leaks away and immediately we find we cannotface God. In order therefore to keep going on with God we must know the up-to-datevalue of the Blood. God keeps short accounts, and we are made nigh by the Blood everyday, every hour and every minute. It never loses its efficacy as our ground of access if wewill but lay hold upon it. When we enter the most Holy Place, on what ground dare weenter but by the Blood?

But I want to ask myself, am I really seeking the way into the Presence of God by theBlood or by something else? What do I mean when I say, `by the Blood'? I mean simplythat I recognize my sins, that I confess that I have need of cleansing and of atonement,and that I come to God on the basis of the finished work of the Lord Jesus. I approach God through His merit alone, and never on the basis of my attainment; never, forexample, on the ground that I have been extra kind or patient today, or that I have donesomething for the Lord this morning. I have to come by way of the Blood every time.

Thetemptation to so many of us when we try to approach God is to think that because Godhas been dealing with us -- because He has been taking steps to bring us into somethingmore of Himself and has been teaching us deeper lessons of the Cross -- He has therebyset before us new standards, and that only by attaining to these can we have a clearconscience before Him. No! A clear conscience is never based upon our attainment; itcan only be based on the work of the Lord Jesus in the shedding of His Blood. I may be mistaken, but I feel very strongly that some of us are thinking in terms suchas these: `Today I have been a little more careful; today I have been doing a little better;this morning I have been reading the Word of God in a warmer way, so today I can praybetter!' Or again, `Today I have had a little difficulty with the family; I began the dayfeeling very gloomy and moody; I am not feeling too bright now; it seems that there mustbe something wrong; therefore I cannot approach God.'




What, after all, is your basis of approach to God? Do you come to Him on theuncertain ground of your feeling, the feeling that you may have achieved something forGod today? Or is your approach based on something far more secure, namely, the factthat the Blood has been shed, and that God looks on that Blood and is satisfied? Ofcourse, were it conceivably possible for the Blood to suffer any change, the basis of yourapproach to God might be less trustworthy. But the Blood has never changed and neverwill. Your approach to God is therefore always in boldness; and that boldness is yoursthrough the Blood and never through your personal attainment. Whatever be yourmeasure of attainment today or yesterday or the day before, as soon as you make aconscious move into the Most Holy Place, immediately you have to take your stand uponthe safe and only ground of the shed Blood. Whether you have had a good day or a badday, whether you have consciously sinned or not, your basis of approach is always thesame -- the Blood of Christ. That is the ground upon which you may enter, and there is noother.


As with many other stages of our Christian experience, this matter of access to Godhas two phases, an initial and a progressive one. The former is presented to us inEphesians 2 and the latter in Hebrews 10. Initially, our standing with God was secured bythe Blood, for we are "made nigh in the blood of Christ" (Eph. 2:13). But thereafter ourground of continual access is still by the Blood, for the apostle exhorts us: "Havingtherefore...boldness to enter into the holy place by the blood of Jesus...let us draw near"(Heb. 10:19,22). To begin with I was made nigh by the Blood, and to continue in thatnew relationship I come through the Blood every time. It is not that I was saved on onebasis and that I now maintain my fellowship on another. You say, `That is very simple; itis the A.B.C. of the Gospel.' Yes, but the trouble with many of us is that we have movedaway from the A.B.C. We have thought we had progressed and so could dispense with it,but we can never do so. No, my initial approach to God is by the Blood, and every time Icome before Him it is the same. Right to the end it will always and only be on the groundof the Blood.


This does not mean at all that we should live a careless life, for we shall shortly studyanother aspect of the death of Christ which shows us that anything but that iscontemplated. But for the present let us be satisfied with the Blood, that it is there and that it is enough.




We may be weak, but looking at our weakness will never make us strong. No trying to feel bad and doing penance will help us to be even a little holier. There is no help there,so let us be bold in our approach because of the Blood: `Lord, I do not know fully whatthe value of the Blood is, but I know that the Blood has satisfied Thee; so the Blood isenough for me, and it is my only plea. I see now that whether I have really progressed,whether I have really attained to something or not, is not the point. Whenever I comebefore Thee, it is always on the ground of the precious Blood. Then our conscience isreally clear before God. No conscience could ever be clear apart from the Blood. It is theBlood that gives us boldness.


"No more conscience of sins": these are tremendous words of Hebrews 10:2. We arecleansed from every sin; and we may truly echo the words of Paul: "Blessed is the man towhom the Lord will not reckon sin" (Romans 4:8). To understand The Sermon on the Mount we must reckon both God's role thru Christ Jesus, and our role thru Christ Jesus.

 
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FreeNChrist

Guest
The Blood has satisfied God; it must satisfy us also. It has therefore a second valuethat is manward in the cleansing of our conscience. When we come to the Epistle to theHebrews we find that the Blood does this. We are to have "hearts sprinkled from an evilconscience" (Hebrews 10:22).


This is most important. Look carefully at what it says. The writer does not tell us thatthe Blood of the Lord Jesus cleanses our hearts, an then stop there in his statement. Weare wrong to connect the heart with the Blood in quite that way. It may show amisunderstanding of the sphere in which the Blood operates to pray, `Lord, cleanse myheart from sin by Thy Blood'. The heart, God says, is "desperately sick" (Jeremiah 17:9),and He must do something more fundamental than cleanse it: He must give us a new one.
We do not wash and iron clothing that we are going to throw away. As we shallshortly see, the `flesh' is too bad to be cleansed; it must be crucified. The work of Godwithin us must be something wholly new. "A new heart also will I give you, and a newspirit will I put within you" (Ezekiel 36:26).


No, I do not find it stated that the Blood cleanses our hearts. Its work is not subjectivein that way, but wholly objective, before God. True, the cleansing work of the Blood isseen here in Hebrew 10 to have reference to the heart, but it is in relation to theconscience. "Having our hearts sprinkled from a evil conscience".

What then is themeaning of this?

It means that there was something intervening between myself and God, as a result ofwhich I had an evil conscience whenever I sought to approach Him. It was constantlyreminding me of the barrier that stood between myself and Him. But now, through theoperation of the precious Blood, something new has been effected before God which hasremoved that barrier, and God has made that fact known to me in His Word. When thathas been believed in and accepted, my conscience is at once cleared and my sense of guiltremoved, and I have no more an evil conscience toward God.


Every one of us knows what a precious thing it is to have a conscience void of offensein our dealings with God. A heart of faith and a conscience clear of any and everyaccusation are both equally essential to us, since they are interdependent. As soon as wefind our conscience is uneasy our faith leaks away and immediately we find we cannotface God. In order therefore to keep going on with God we must know the up-to-datevalue of the Blood. God keeps short accounts, and we are made nigh by the Blood everyday, every hour and every minute. It never loses its efficacy as our ground of access if wewill but lay hold upon it. When we enter the most Holy Place, on what ground dare weenter but by the Blood?

But I want to ask myself, am I really seeking the way into the Presence of God by theBlood or by something else? What do I mean when I say, `by the Blood'? I mean simplythat I recognize my sins, that I confess that I have need of cleansing and of atonement,and that I come to God on the basis of the finished work of the Lord Jesus. I approach God through His merit alone, and never on the basis of my attainment; never, forexample, on the ground that I have been extra kind or patient today, or that I have donesomething for the Lord this morning. I have to come by way of the Blood every time.

Thetemptation to so many of us when we try to approach God is to think that because Godhas been dealing with us -- because He has been taking steps to bring us into somethingmore of Himself and has been teaching us deeper lessons of the Cross -- He has therebyset before us new standards, and that only by attaining to these can we have a clearconscience before Him. No! A clear conscience is never based upon our attainment; itcan only be based on the work of the Lord Jesus in the shedding of His Blood. I may be mistaken, but I feel very strongly that some of us are thinking in terms suchas these: `Today I have been a little more careful; today I have been doing a little better;this morning I have been reading the Word of God in a warmer way, so today I can praybetter!' Or again, `Today I have had a little difficulty with the family; I began the dayfeeling very gloomy and moody; I am not feeling too bright now; it seems that there mustbe something wrong; therefore I cannot approach God.'




What, after all, is your basis of approach to God? Do you come to Him on theuncertain ground of your feeling, the feeling that you may have achieved something forGod today? Or is your approach based on something far more secure, namely, the factthat the Blood has been shed, and that God looks on that Blood and is satisfied? Ofcourse, were it conceivably possible for the Blood to suffer any change, the basis of yourapproach to God might be less trustworthy. But the Blood has never changed and neverwill. Your approach to God is therefore always in boldness; and that boldness is yoursthrough the Blood and never through your personal attainment. Whatever be yourmeasure of attainment today or yesterday or the day before, as soon as you make aconscious move into the Most Holy Place, immediately you have to take your stand uponthe safe and only ground of the shed Blood. Whether you have had a good day or a badday, whether you have consciously sinned or not, your basis of approach is always thesame -- the Blood of Christ. That is the ground upon which you may enter, and there is noother.


As with many other stages of our Christian experience, this matter of access to Godhas two phases, an initial and a progressive one. The former is presented to us inEphesians 2 and the latter in Hebrews 10. Initially, our standing with God was secured bythe Blood, for we are "made nigh in the blood of Christ" (Eph. 2:13). But thereafter ourground of continual access is still by the Blood, for the apostle exhorts us: "Havingtherefore...boldness to enter into the holy place by the blood of Jesus...let us draw near"(Heb. 10:19,22). To begin with I was made nigh by the Blood, and to continue in thatnew relationship I come through the Blood every time. It is not that I was saved on onebasis and that I now maintain my fellowship on another. You say, `That is very simple; itis the A.B.C. of the Gospel.' Yes, but the trouble with many of us is that we have movedaway from the A.B.C. We have thought we had progressed and so could dispense with it,but we can never do so. No, my initial approach to God is by the Blood, and every time Icome before Him it is the same. Right to the end it will always and only be on the groundof the Blood.


This does not mean at all that we should live a careless life, for we shall shortly studyanother aspect of the death of Christ which shows us that anything but that iscontemplated. But for the present let us be satisfied with the Blood, that it is there and that it is enough.




We may be weak, but looking at our weakness will never make us strong. No trying to feel bad and doing penance will help us to be even a little holier. There is no help there,so let us be bold in our approach because of the Blood: `Lord, I do not know fully whatthe value of the Blood is, but I know that the Blood has satisfied Thee; so the Blood isenough for me, and it is my only plea. I see now that whether I have really progressed,whether I have really attained to something or not, is not the point. Whenever I comebefore Thee, it is always on the ground of the precious Blood. Then our conscience isreally clear before God. No conscience could ever be clear apart from the Blood. It is theBlood that gives us boldness.


"No more conscience of sins": these are tremendous words of Hebrews 10:2. We arecleansed from every sin; and we may truly echo the words of Paul: "Blessed is the man towhom the Lord will not reckon sin" (Romans 4:8). To understand The Sermon on the Mount we must reckon both God's role thru Christ Jesus, and our role thru Christ Jesus.
Watchman Nee, no?
 

slave

Senior Member
Mar 20, 2015
6,307
1,097
113
I agree wholeheartedly with Watchman Nee here, thus, I put to the test my own convictions..... What is your take on These writings? Have you ((proved) out, as you would say), your own convictions, set before you by the Spirit of ( God)? Or are you trying to prove your doctrinal rightness to be correct, as well as ask others to prove you wrong? Tell me: What are your convictions concerning "these things" which are written, in way of your spirit?
 

phil36

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2009
8,260
2,111
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The sermon on the mount is great teaching for those in the kingdom..ie, Christians. Here we see Christian ethics as taught by our Lord and saviour.

The sermon culminates from Matthew 7:13 through to 7:29. All Christians will want to act one these teachings sincerely.

'These words of mine' that Jesus speaks in v24, refer to the whole sermon on the mount, for whoever hears these words (Christ's) and does them (obeys) will be like the man who built his house on a solid foundation (Rock). He (Christ) is referring to his authoritative teaching on Kingdom living.

Context is key!
 
Jun 1, 2016
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when a doctrine teaches people that sin is no big deal to God anymore because Jesus died.....it creates that in a persons mind. Sinners which all of us were or still are, Love sin more than righteousness, so when a person Hears a doctrine that sends the message " you dont have to really repent, God doesnt care either way now your already saved" it feeds the sin in all of us. Until people accept that were dead to that person, and born again to be Like God in true righteousness and to Live and actually walk in His ways, the power of the Gospel will be denied.

God can do all things including healing us from sin through Jesus. Love is perfected by walking in the Light

1 john 4:9-15 "In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him. Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us. Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit. And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God."


and we Love each other by following His commands which are what Love is

1 john 5:2-5 "BY THIS WE KNOW THAT WE LOVE the children of God, WHEN WE LOVE GOD, AND KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS. For THIS IS THE LOVE OF GOD, that WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS: and his commandments are NOT GREIVOUS. For whatsoever is BORN OF GOD overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?"

Plain straight foreward scripture like this is what is widely dismissed, Love has ALWAYS been the purpose of Gods commands. if we Love someone we do not kill them, steal from them, lie to them, we do not cheat on our spouse, or have another god than the true God, we dont bear false witness against each other ect....

to say " just Love" as so many do yet obeying the commandments is somehow wrong is a contradiction/ Just Love is a summary, it is saying Just obey Gods Word because that is Love to God. Jesus said the same thing. Love is action its what we do because we Have the Knowledge that God Loves us first by sending His Only Son to die and rise again to redeem us from death. this doesnt omit our obedience to God, its meant to provide us with His spirit and His spirit qwill always lead to obedience to His Word.

God is Love, and so is His word of instructions meant for Those who believe, to actually apply to Life. there is no validity to anything that parts from obedience to the Word of God.
 
Nov 12, 2015
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A lot of the true dispensationalists will rarely admit this is what they are, because they see
it as a weakness.

And all believers are dispensationalist to a because there is a change under Jesus from the
law of Moses to the law of Christ. Also our way of approaching God has changed, and the
Kingdom has now come to earth, in His people through the indwelling Holy Spirit.

The way gentiles are now grafted in to Israel or the people of God is also a change with
the two Jews and gentiles becoming one. So the way one describes it has to be careful
or the knives are out, but that is a given for many here, lol :)
Hmm...I had to go look up what dispensationalism meant. I think I would be called a dispensationalist...I too believe all that God said through the prophets will happen literally, exactly as He said. And I too think that He will lead Israel into the desert again in the future and once more speak tenderly to her there. So I guess I'm dispensational.
 
Feb 24, 2015
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Hmm...I had to go look up what dispensationalism meant. I think I would be called a dispensationalist...I too believe all that God said through the prophets will happen literally, exactly as He said. And I too think that He will lead Israel into the desert again in the future and once more speak tenderly to her there. So I guess I'm dispensational.
I think historically the main problem faced with dispensationalism was the idea
of different means of salvation or covenants with God.

It slightly misses the point that God never changes and there has always only
been communion with the Lord or curtains.

The problem also has been labelling words or concepts as irrelevant for understanding
the Lord or walking in fellowship because they are from one dispensation and not another.

So for instance the support for the re-introduction of animal sacrifice in the temple in
Jerusalem would be absurd and deny the whole value of Christ and the cross.

But take this forward, it means Israels future is christian and not jewish.
The idea of a jewish temple future is driven more by romantic notions of Israel etc than
simple sense of scripture and faith. But then for some it is this romantic alternative reality
which appeals more than simple biblical reality.
 
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The law is the gate keeper to the Kingdom. Unless you submit to its ways you
cannot enter.
Could you explain this more? I'm not grasping what you're saying. Happy Easter by the way, brother dear! :)
 
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I think historically the main problem faced with dispensationalism was the idea
of different means of salvation or covenants with God.

It slightly misses the point that God never changes and there has always only
been communion with the Lord or curtains.

The problem also has been labelling words or concepts as irrelevant for understanding
the Lord or walking in fellowship because they are from one dispensation and not another.

So for instance the support for the re-introduction of animal sacrifice in the temple in
Jerusalem would be absurd and deny the whole value of Christ and the cross.

But take this forward, it means Israels future is christian and not jewish.
The idea of a jewish temple future is driven more by romantic notions of Israel etc than
simple sense of scripture and faith. But then for some it is this romantic alternative reality
which appeals more than simple biblical reality.
Oh...I didn't read that dispensationalists want sacrifices to start again. But then, I only read a few pages. I also didn't read that they think there are different means of salvation for different groups of people. That's odd...

I agree that their future is Christian! I know that He has partially blinded them but from what I have read in scripture, this blindness will be lifted and they will one day say, blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord.
 
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Could you explain this more? I'm not grasping what you're saying. Happy Easter by the way, brother dear! :)
Happy easter, the Lord is risen, Amen.

Paul was determined to show in walking in love driven by Christ we fulfil the law of
Christ, and the law does not condemn us.

So for those in Christ the law confirms to their hearts they are not under condemnation
and have passed from death to life.

For those not in Christ the law confirms they fall short and need the empowering of
Christ love, and therefore salvation.

Now for groups who decry love and righteousness, they are declaring they are outside
the Kingdom, as walking in righteousness is walking in Gods way.
 
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Haha, I still don't understand what you mean pj. It's okay though. :)
 
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I guess...maybe I do understand a little bit...when you say the law is the gatekeeper do you mean...no muderer or adulterer or unclean will enter? So you are speaking about the spirit of the law?