Why I now believe in Predistination/Election

[PeterJens]

If you imagine saving us is almost impossible. We are beligerent, opinionated, rebellious,
hard hearted, stubborn, and the Lord desires that we learn how to be meek, mild, humble,
caring, loving, self sacrificing, seeing need on our own, being clean, pure, holy, willing to die
for others.

Unless God was very careful with the elect, we would not last. Only with all the effort
He puts in only the elect get saved though all the others could if their hearts had been
willing.

So yes we do choose, but it is like 99% God with our feeble agreement and lack of enthusiasm.

Get real for a minute. How many desire to walk in love and righteousness? Very few.
To even talk about it, still less.
How many want to talk about their hearts and struggles, to discover who they are and what God
has for them? Still less.

Worse still some are so opposed to Gods ways they will persecute you for daring to want to talk
about it, or even believe these things are possible. And these guys know Gods word. That is how
lost people are. And even those who God moves with in power often fail and fall.

Moses struck the rock and got angry, David with Bathsheba, Peter and his denial, it goes on and on.

So God seriously has to know who are worth the effort and desire, because He is committed 100%
for us, but only within the constraints of what is possible. So please give God the praise He is due,
and realise we owe it all to Him and His love and desire to purchase us, His chosen people for
eternity. If He could He would have everyone.

 

[gotime]

If God inspired all with his Spirit the Bible would be a very large book with billions and billions of books in it.

I'd hate to serve a god who inspires ISIS.

My position is in relation to the OP. the context of my point is that God inspires all in the direction of salvation. but we either submit and surrender to the moving of the spirit or resist.

 

[notuptome]

Frankly concerning the above? It's nonsense and unbiblical. If God had mercy on all, then all would be saved. Exodus 33:19; Romans 9:15; and try some 2 Timothy 2:15.

So Romans 11:32 is not in your bible?

Part is intended to be nonsense and to provoke some to see how unbiblical their position actually presents itself.

Christ opined how He would have often gathered Israel as a hen gathers her chicks but they would not. God is still merciful even if man rejects that mercy. John 3 tells us that some turn away from the Light because of their evil deeds. Yet God still is merciful though He is rejected.

God calls but not all will respond. Christ died for all but not all will receive Him. Still God is merciful because He loves His creation.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Johnny_B]

You believe in double election. Just that you have never thought about any farther than the theology you are defending.

You were born a sinner and elected to condemnation.

Now you claim that you were elected to salvation.

That's double election.

Your in a conundrum if really stop and think about it.

Are you claiming that you were not born a sinner and condemned?

So God's desire for all men to be saved, means nothing to you, it's not His will or according to His purpose that all BE saved. But I can see how the natural mind thinks that way because I used to think things like that, putting God in my box.

 

[preacher4truth]

So Romans 11:32 is not in your bible?

So you're a universalist. That explains why you pit Romans 11:32 against Exodus 33:19; Romans 9:15. Interesting. It explains your dismissal of 2 Timothy 2:15 concerning rightly handling of Scripture.

 

[wsblind]

So Romans 11:32 is not in your bible?

Part is intended to be nonsense and to provoke some to see how unbiblical their position actually presents itself.

Christ opined how He would have often gathered Israel as a hen gathers her chicks but they would not. God is still merciful even if man rejects that mercy. John 3 tells us that some turn away from the Light because of their evil deeds. Yet God still is merciful though He is rejected.

God calls but not all will respond. Christ died for all but not all will receive Him. Still God is merciful because He loves His creation.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to notuptome again.

 

[wsblind]

So God's desire for all men to be saved, means nothing to you, it's not His will or according to His purpose that all BE saved. But I can see how the natural mind thinks that way because I used to think things like that, putting God in my box.

Do you claim that you were not born a sinner and elected to condemnation?

 

[wsblind]

Christ died for all but not all will receive Him.

So you're a universalist.

.................

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Then you are free to go on your way. I will pray that God chooses his Way for you, so you can finally get the real God and the joy in being his child.

And should I call you, Honey Child? Since you're in to such nonsense as calling anyone "sweetheart?" (I would think a woman, of all people, would understand the derogative nature of the word "sweetheart" to another woman.)

I am not joking about this - I had no idea sweetheart was a derogatory word. When did THAT happen?

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

I didn't say or wish it needed rewording for I never did reword it...

Sorry about that. I think I'm confusing you with someone else who I was talking with who said it sounded like "and that not of yourselves" was plunked down awkwardly in the sentence, not where he thought it should be. I get confused sometimes, lol!

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Yeah, I can see that....Folks are one sided...They see what they want to see and then if you don't agree with it then you must be some type of liar or just picking and choosing scripture.

But it's ok for them to throw a verse or two out and just skip over the rest.

I think that's the whole point - it isn't satisfactory to me at all when both sides do that. I want it ALL to fit together.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

All I have to say is you are a one time case. I have known hundreds of believers. And your the ONLY person I ever met that said they went fr5om rejecting God pone second to believing the next. Everyone i knew spent months sometimes even years believing in God,. But afraid to take that step of faith, for whatever reason.

But hey, As I said, if you want to believe the way I do. Your free too.. I am done trying to explain myself. And why I believe the way I do over and over to the same people. It is not worth it..

I don't think I'm a one time case...I think there are others who just suddenly saw one day. It can't be just me. Out of millions of people? And it's okay. You don't have to discuss with me. I won't be offended.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

If you're not into bullying people into what to think then quit telling your lie. We HAVE shown you scripture. (Not a verse or two, which is another lie.) You ignore them. Instead you come back to lying about what you want the Bible to say.

Lynn, I don't think she is saying it the way you think. She isn't saying: You are saying thus and thus. I think what she is intending to say is: when you say such and such it appears to me like you must be saying thus and thus. I really don't think she was saying that is actually what you personally have said. I could be wrong but I think she is using "you" as a general term, not a personal term.

 

[Mike777]

Choice and not freewill? What are you talking about?

 

[PeterJens]

The thing about it is that predestination is saying some folks will be condemned to hell just because that's what God wanted for them and no other real reason.

Having a choice and choosing wrongly is not on God. God is no respecter of persons. To say that everyone has a choice is not condemning or judging anyone, but to say some folks were made only to be rejected no matter what they do is pretty harsh.

Is life a blessing? Is life and love the most precious thing we have?

The second death is the final end, the closing of the door.
One man soaked in blood opened the door to life, and all are called
yet most answer with disdain.

Some are so arrogant even if Jesus is God they would rather die.
Sin is so bad it blinds people, though the cure is there before them they
will not apply.

God will answer if any .call but only the elect will.

Here on cc some rail against righteousness, pour scorn on Gods word, boast of
their sin, call the people of God evil and show no fear. So bitter and empty are they
their.hearts and emotional life are a closed book. So lost are they, light is darkness,
their worldly dreams are Gods, everything is just happy and no sorrow over sin and
evil.

So man is very lost even with Gods word in their hands. God help them.

 

[BeyondET]

Sorry about that. I think I'm confusing you with someone else who I was talking with who said it sounded like "and that not of yourselves" was plunked down awkwardly in the sentence, not where he thought it should be. I get confused sometimes, lol!

That's ok I understand, think of it as (through faith) a narrative from Paul on how to obtain grace "it is The Gift" the plural representation within the verse.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Is life a blessing? Is life and love the most precious thing we have?

The second death is the final end, the closing of the door.
One man soaked in blood opened the door to life, and all are called
yet most answer with disdain.

Some are so arrogant even if Jesus is God they would rather die.
Sin is so bad it blinds people, though the cure is there before them they
will not apply.

God will answer if any .call but only the elect will.

Here on cc some rail against righteousness, pour scorn on Gods word, boast of
their sin, call the people of God evil and show no fear. So bitter and empty are they
their.hearts and emotional life are a closed book. So lost are they, light is darkness,
their worldly dreams are Gods, everything is just happy and no sorrow over sin and
evil.

So man is very lost even with Gods word in their hands. God help them.

I probably will sound like a broken record but...we can't condemn them who God loves and has given His Spirit to just because we have gained more understanding than they have yet. That would set up some sort of caste system and then the person above YOU spiritually would also condemn YOU for what you don't yet know in the Lord.

This would be like telling a father he is not raising his children right even though he knows what they are ready to bear and you don't. He lives with them in their house and you don't. He knows.

I noted something about myself a while back. God would show me something and I would immediately rush out and say: hey, some Christians do such and such- how can they DO that?? DESPITE the fact that I had done that very thing until He gave me more light and grew me in the humility to bear that increased light!

If we receive a gift of more light on a matter, we seem to instantly forget that we were doing the very thing also before we received it. So we take the gift and then go outside to our friends and we boast about the gift as if it was through our own great wisdom that it came to us and how can they be so stupid!!!

Some of you are mothers and fathers. What would you do if you gave some gift to your child (say a new bike) and then your child went outside and arrogantly taunted all the other neighborhood kids because they didn't have one? Wouldn't you be horrified and wouldn't you take that gift away if they used it in that manner? Wouldn't you want them to grow in the humility that would be thankful for the gift and KNOW it was a gift?

 

[Grandpa]

Do you claim that you were not born a sinner and elected to condemnation?

No one is elected to condemnation. They are born into condemnation.

It doesn't really make sense to elect everyone for something. The very word elect implies that some would not be included.

 

[Grandpa]

I am not joking about this - I had no idea sweetheart was a derogatory word. When did THAT happen?

When a woman says it to another woman it is extremely derogatory. Depending on the emphasis and tone.

Its a way of saying something, or implying what you think of someone, without expressly saying it. In a negative way.

 

[notuptome]

So you're a universalist. That explains why you pit Romans 11:32 against Exodus 33:19; Romans 9:15. Interesting. It explains your dismissal of 2 Timothy 2:15 concerning rightly handling of Scripture.

Despite your unnecessarily caustic reply I am universal in Gods call for all to be saved. Not all will be saved because not all will receive so I'm not universalist in the meaning of the term.

It is the goodness of God that leads men to repentance not severity. God is merciful and causes it to rain on the good and the evil. Were it not for the mercy of God all men would have perished but Gods mercy holds back His terrible wrath to give men space to repent and receive Christ.

Your understanding causes the conflict between Romans 11:32 and Exodus 33:19, Romans 9:15 not Gods intent. God knows the future but this foreknowledge does not constrain Him to cause certain events to pass. Foreknowledge does not mean predetermination or predestination. Reminds me of the illustration of the Calvinist who fell down the steps at church and broke his arm. He got up and said thank you God I'm glad we got that out of the way. Did God predestine him to fall down the steps and break his arm?

For the cause of Christ
Roger