Give us these kind of men

[joaniemarie]

You support Joel osteen, can you show where he actually preaches Jesus crucified as the only way to heaven?

Just because he has a mass following doesnt mean he is saving them.

Muslims get mass followings.

Do you believe they are being saved?

Do you believe in the prosperity gospel?

I have listened to J.O. and he gives the Gospel of Jesus Christ out most certainly. And many unsaved people have come to Christ through J.O. ministry. Those are facts and if more people would agree., it would prevent them from freely condemning Joel and saying he is of the devil.

No man is perfect on earth and no man has perfect theology and that includes all of us here. We should all be working at ministering the Gospel instead of trying to pull the splinter out of J.O. eye.

 

[joaniemarie]

Well, if your pastor witnessed to a Muslim and told him he was an okay guy and he could go to heaven as a practicing Muslim, what would you think of him? Or if he was confronted by a Muslim and he told him he did not know if he would go to heaven, and that he witnessed Muslims who truly loved God? Would you say 'atta boy' or 'whatyoudoin'???'

Well that's the thing here., Joel O. doesn't say you're fine if you don't accept Jesus Christ. He preaches Jesus and allows the Holy Spirit to change the heart. Sure, he may do it differently than you or I maybe but he does it none the less. He also preaches healing in Christ and victory in Christ. J.O. points to Christ. He has been called to preach to the masses in the world who have been rejected and never learned to accept love.

J.O. doesn't judge who is going to heaven and who his not. Why? Because until that person dies, he/she has opportunity to accept Jesus and J.O. has learned and shared that he leaves that result to the Holy Spirit. He always ends his messages with a alter call. He clearly tells about accepting Christ so they can be accepted by God. I'm convinced most of the people who hate J.O. have never listened to a whole message of his.

It's just so much easier for people to condemn Joel O. than to care about him. Loving others is the high calling of each believer. Herein is love, not that we loved God but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins. We were all saved as sinners with our own set of rights and wrongs until the Holy Spirit teaches us otherwise.


A good way to look at this is Joel O. goes out fishing and is a fisher of men. Fish get caught but Joel allows the Holy Spirit to do the cleaning.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Well, if you personal(sic) know him,

I do.

I hope he is a more pleasant fellow than he has been on this thread.

He's defending the truth that Joel and Victoria avoid at all costs.

On here, it's been all about him being right.

Nope. He's all about defending the word that we, as preachers, are stewards over. In fact, all believers are to be good stewards with His word.

HE is the only person who knows what God said and can decipher it.

Nope. Not even close.

There isn't another phrase for that but "about being right."

Nope. Another swing and miss.

 

[notmyown]

I'm still in the jury room on Lawson, but what's leaning me to the "guilty" verdict is MacArthur explaining it. That's what 7's source was about -- MacArthur's book.

i haven't read ahead of this, and i offer apologies to the OP for further derailing the thread...

my impression of this idea of Lordship salvation is that it's a response to the emotional manipulation "pray a prayer, walk an aisle, ask Jesus into your heart" salvation. which may or may not be real. i had always taken it to be a warning that unless there's a change in the disposition of the heart, unless the person professing faith doesn't begin to obey from the heart, regeneration has not taken place.

i wouldn't expect either Lawson or MacArthur (Calvinists) to ADD anything to God's work in salvation.
i think the idea is a warning to those who've been convinced they're saved to, er, examine themselves to see whether they're in the faith.

i could be wrong, as i often am, and will investigate. let's meet for coffee to compare notes. lol

 

[Stephen63]

I have said 2x times in this thread and in many others in times past that I don't believe in the so-called prosperity gospel the way I have seen some people preach it. I also don't believe in tithing either. I believe that in Christ we are already blessed with everything that we need. That He alone is our provider. That we are to give from our hearts governed by the love of God in us which is a fruit of the Spirit within us.

Most Christians couldn't handle true prosperity from the Lord. We are way too immature still for that to happen.

BUT - I am not going to put up videos castigating those people publicly that do believe and teach tithing and in malice call them heretics and a "cult" and full of witchcraft trying to manipulate others and "exposing" to all the world just how wrong they are and that they are just covetous and want your money for their "vision".

joseph prince believes in tithing.

 

[Stephen63]

Victoria Osteen - "when you come to church to worship him you're not doing it for God really, your doing it for yourself". I don't know how you Osteen supporters can defend statements like that

Some people are so blind the need a little old lady to help them cross the street, LOL.

 

[Stephen63]

One of those ignores may have been put there by God.
But you'll never know, will you?

Actually I'm thinking about doing one more.

 

[Stephen63]

A woman.
Were you expecting something else?

Sockpuppets..... classic example. All he's trying to do is steer everyone off the Osteens & onto him.

 

[PeterJens]

Rarely do I see threads on the real crap out there, Joel wouldn't hurt a fly but the people in the world who do hurt others like flys go unabated...

This is very true.
I love to sing songs in praise of God. Many are written by people I probably do not
agree with on everything or quite a lot, but we feel the same way about God.

The spirit of criticism and nit picking can end up taking the odd phrase and make it
mean something else. Equally the core ideas can be simply wrong and heretical.
If you read Jeremiah, it is enough to know the prosperity gospel is as old as humans.

So we need to have good evidence, and clarity. Joel is border line, so if you find him
a blessing amen, if not, there are many others you can get blessings from.

 

[BeyondET]

Where did you say you hate people? In just about every post you've made by mocking anyone who doesn't agree exactly like you do, by libeling some, by laughing like a lunatic, by using words like "callow" to a guy who is your age, by self-appointing yourself as the only one who understands scripture. (Since you asked.)

Huh, I didnt even look the word up, I assumed it was a typo, thanks for the heads up, trickery is never ending issue, geees...

 

[BeyondET]

This is very true.
I love to sing songs in praise of God. Many are written by people I probably do not
agree with on everything or quite a lot, but we feel the same way about God.

The spirit of criticism and nit picking can end up taking the odd phrase and make it
mean something else. Equally the core ideas can be simply wrong and heretical.
If you read Jeremiah, it is enough to know the prosperity gospel is as old as humans.

So we need to have good evidence, and clarity. Joel is border line, so if you find him
a blessing amen, if not, there are many others you can get blessings from.

It's good to strive to keep the ears and eyes open, things can be learned from any angle, though sometimes things are so subtle it can go right over the head if not careful in observing...

that old saying one man's trash is another man's treasure, though I don't have to rummage through every piece of it, I can dig through it and look at what's of use to me..

I had a thought about people, since anyone can make a account without actually giving their real name, I wonder if some of these people who get called out in threads could be techinally members. though highly unlikely but I've learned in life never say never because it just may happen.. lol...

 

[Stephen63]

With all the horrible things going on in the world obviously today, why some Christians want to accuse and defame other believers makes no sense. The demons love to see believers go after one another with accusations and personal attacks especially over the Bible. Seriously! for our enemies What could be better?

That's where you're wrong, dear.

We're not accusing nor defaming other "believers".

The Satanic church teaches tolerance. The Bible doesn't.

The Bible teaches to have nothing to do with them, no not even to eat with them.

The Bible teaches sanctification..... the separation of the holy from the unholy.

Tolerance is a doctrine of demons.

[video=youtube;m8xINUG94LI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8xINUG94LI[/video]

 

[preacher4truth]

That's where you're wrong, dear.

We're not accusing nor defaming other "believers".

The Satanic church teaches tolerance. The Bible doesn't.

The Bible teaches to have nothing to do with them, no not even to eat with them.

The Bible teaches sanctification..... the separation of the holy from the unholy.

Tolerance is a doctrine of demons.

[video=youtube;m8xINUG94LI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8xINUG94LI[/video]

Yep, that's the misnomer. We are not to eat with them, they should be cast out of the church, and if they come to repentance then good, 1 Corinthians 5:9ff. From these we are to turn away, 2 Timothy 3. Those who are covetous, and preach covetousness will not inherit the kingdom of God, Ephesians 5:5, and Paul says we can be sure of this. Peter speaks of their damnation being just, 2 Peter 2. But some simply are not grounded in the Word and will not endure sound doctrine, thus the crying over these types of truths and how tired they are of hearing it, and seeing these topics.

 

[sevenseas]

Give us these kind of women

The ornament of a meek and quiet spirit,
which is in the sight of God of great price.

uh

who is us?

collective wisdom of the ages no doubt

 

[BeyondET]

Yep, that's the misnomer. We are not to eat with them, they should be cast out of the church, and if they come to repentance then good, 1 Corinthians 5:9ff. From these we are to turn away, 2 Timothy 3. Those who are covetous, and preach covetousness will not inherit the kingdom of God, Ephesians 5:5, and Paul says we can be sure of this. Peter speaks of their damnation being just, 2 Peter 2. But some simply are not grounded in the Word and will not endure sound doctrine, thus the crying over these types of truths and how tired they are of hearing it, and seeing these topics.

So callow, interesting word, huh I guess that ol saying is true never to old to learn something new...

 

[sevenseas]

Last came in loud and clear.

And, yeah, I too am tired of the hate being used as "God's word only I can understand, because you're too stupid."

I'm getting close to leaving this site again. So, yup. I get it.

I don't know

when I read the Bible and pray I ALWAYS and I mean ALWAYS get the impression God is talking to me when He says things like how we are supposed to love others and exhibit the fruit of the Spirit

I am certain that is a harder thing to do then brag about your (cough cough) spiritual gifts that I am also certain, become like sounding brass and clanging gongs when the spirit behind them consists of trying to turn the Holy Spirit against believers

they are so busy being angry, they don't notice the spirit behind the attacks has nothing to do with holiness

 

[sevenseas]

Yep, that's the misnomer. We are not to eat with them, they should be cast out of the church, and if they come to repentance then good, 1 Corinthians 5:9ff. From these we are to turn away, 2 Timothy 3. Those who are covetous, and preach covetousness will not inherit the kingdom of God, Ephesians 5:5, and Paul says we can be sure of this. Peter speaks of their damnation being just, 2 Peter 2. But some simply are not grounded in the Word and will not endure sound doctrine, thus the crying over these types of truths and how tired they are of hearing it, and seeing these topics.

you seem to think you sit at the head of the table

actually, you know, I think you do

but it is YOUR table

not the Lord's

the hypocrisy of this thread, with your name calling and general all around nastiness, sounds more like you are picking out of a garbage can than feasting with Christians

I just deleted some of what I was going to say

waste of time

I'm sorry for the people you offend on a daily basis and hurt because they look up to you

I pray God sets them free of your burdens and your control

 

[PeterJens]

"Does God want us to be rich?" he asks. "When I hear that word rich, I think people say, 'Well, he's preaching that everybody's going to be a millionaire.' I don't think that's it." Rather, he explains, "I preach that anybody can improve their lives. I think God wants us to be prosperous. I think he wants us to be happy. To me, you need to have money to pay your bills. I think God wants us to send our kids to college. I think he wants us to be a blessing to other people. But I don't think I'd say God wants us to be rich. It's all relative, isn't it?"
Joel Osteen

The problem is this is true in part, but not exactly straight prosperity preaching.

The real problem is preachers sowing and reaping preaching. Give x and you will get back
100 times this amount.

Joel does not appear to do this.

So I wonder how prosperity gospel he really is.
There are many others who do this, to appauling degrees.

It is like people condemning everyone as a works salvationist because the do not hold
to an extreme view of security in Christ, yet there are real works salvationists who do
believe everything is balancing good with bad deeds.

So come with facts and real solid examples. Else this is just slander. It is very easy to
slander people if you feel hurt and got at. I see this here on cc, and even inventing false
hurts by reading statements said in the wrong way.

I remember with my kids, one would say something, that they felt was ok, but actually was
very provocative. The other part retailated with a very strong statement in response and boom
it all exploded both claiming innocence and both being incendury.

Funny this is both were right but pushed it too far.

 

[BeyondET]

Where's that sneaky heart?

 

[joaniemarie]

Wow., reading some of these comments about how it's the job of certain "Christians" to condemn and belittle other Christians in the name of Jesus. (Can't ever remember reading Jesus condemning or belittling people) He did condemn the Pharisees and for good reason.

I can see that God has a sense of humor as the Bible describes people trying to get the splinter out of someone's eye while having a giant log coming out of theirs.

"Yes dear., you don't understand how important the job of condemnation is in the body of Christ., someone has to do it and we are the called"