Two calls?

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DinoDillinger

DinoDillinger

Senior Member
#1
Jul 28, 2009
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In bible study this week we were in Acts 8 and when we talked about Simon who tried to buy the power of the Holy Spirit. Now the pastor who was leading the class said this was evidence of two calls (according to Simon's response in 8:24) by God, the first to faith, then another to sanctification. I had never heard this idea before but I suppose it would seem to line up with people who grew up in church and believed but didn't live like a christian until they got older when I guess they got the call of sanctification.

If anybody thinks the 2 calls thing is correct could you please share some scripture and your thoughts, likewise those who feel there is one call and it is to both or whatever else lies inbetween.

Grace be to you :)
 
MahogonySnail

MahogonySnail

Banned
#2
Jan 8, 2009
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I think it's an example of a false convert. He wasn't truly saved until he repented. So I think there's only one call.

Do you realise that if you believe he was saved as soon as he believed... this verse would contradict your belief in "once saved always saved" ? :

Act 8:20 But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.
 
DinoDillinger

DinoDillinger

Senior Member
#3
Jul 28, 2009
839
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MahogonySnail said:
I think it's an example of a false convert. He wasn't truly saved until he repented. So I think there's only one call.

Do you realise that if you believe he was saved as soon as he believed... this verse would contradict your belief in "once saved always saved" ? :

Act 8:20 But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.
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Yes, I know that Snail. The church I go to is mostly Weslyan theologically. This keeps me on my toes lol. I guess you could say that their theology is not the reason I attend there.
 
MahogonySnail

MahogonySnail

Banned
#4
Jan 8, 2009
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lol understood, i've never been to a wesleyan church actually. But I think biblically they are wrong to say they are two calls..I think biblically justification and sanctification are at the same time:

1Co 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.


A person cannot be justified and not sanctified and vice versa. Otherwise they are saying that he was made right with God because he was justified, but then not right with God becaue he was not sanctified.
 
DinoDillinger

DinoDillinger

Senior Member
#5
Jul 28, 2009
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MahogonySnail said:
lol understood, i've never been to a wesleyan church actually. But I think biblically they are wrong to say they are two calls..I think biblically justification and sanctification are at the same time:

1Co 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.


A person cannot be justified and not sanctified and vice versa. Otherwise they are saying that he was made right with God because he was justified, but then not right with God becaue he was not sanctified.
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Hey, I agree with someone who studies their bible properly. :)
 
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charisenexcelcis

Guest
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#6
The Wesleyans believe that there is the immediate, inward, and eternal sanctification which occurs at conversion and a second, outward and temporal work of sanctification which results in a pure earthly life.
 
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mcubed

Guest
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I do not understand the resaoning between santification and faith. If yoou could expound that would be wounderful. My point is this ... in today's age who hold out until marriage before sexualrelations nuless by faith that person truly believes the Word of G-d is infallable and inerrant and G-d will honer you if you honer Him. Many people will "try" or wait until they are "in love" but it is only by faith that G-d will fill that void of whatever and then they live as santified people... now this is one of many examples... but I do not see how one is without the other??????
 
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MaggieMye

Guest
#8
#8
Now when Simon saw that the Spirit was bestowed through the laying on of the apostles' hands, he offered them money,

19saying, "Give this authority to me as well, so that everyone on whom I lay my hands may receive the Holy Spirit."
20But Peter said to him, "May your silver perish with you, because you thought you could obtain the gift of God with money!
21"You have no part or portion in this matter, for your heart is not right before God.
22"Therefore repent of this wickedness of yours, and pray the Lord that, if possible, the intention of your heart may be forgiven you.
23"For I see that you are in the gall of bitterness and in the bondage of iniquity." 24But Simon answered and said, "Pray to the Lord for me yourselves, so that nothing of what you have said may come upon me." The REAL sin here, is not so much that Simon THOUGHT he could pay money...or that he THOUGHT it was an ability worthy of payment. The real sin is that when he was corrected and told to pray and ask for forgiveness for his ignorance of the Character of God, HE REFUSED TO REPENT.
As for the two calls, Simon did believe in his mind, that Christ was the Savior. But in his HEART, he did not believe...that he could have it for the asking or that God would know the true condition of his heart....wanting the gift so that he could remain elevated in the eyes of the people...not for the doing of God's will.

Justification and sanctification are the same. Your pastor, teaching the class is in error.
Maggie

 
loveschild

loveschild

Banned
#9
May 21, 2009
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We are all called. I never heard of two calls. Sounds crazy to me. Snail is right the man didn't want anything to do with God he wanted the powers that God had.

We are all called. The Lord is always calling His people. He calls them millions times. He doesn't want them in hell. Its just that some won't turn to Him.
 
VW

VW

Banned
#10
Dec 22, 2009
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The answer to this question is in the text. By the laying on of hands, there was a giving of the Holy Spirit, a filling with the Holy Spirit.

In another place in Acts, the apostles found a group who believed, had been baptized, but had not received the Holy Spirit, and the apostles knew this and laid hands on them then.

When we believe, when the Spirit convicts us in our hearts that Jesus is raised from the dead, we receive from God life, because we have heard the voice of His Son. It is apparent that we need the filling with the Holy Spirit, that it is essential to our walk with our God. When we receive Him, we are equipped for His service, to be His witnesses in the world to His love.
 
DinoDillinger

DinoDillinger

Senior Member
#12
Jul 28, 2009
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VW said:
The answer to this question is in the text. By the laying on of hands, there was a giving of the Holy Spirit, a filling with the Holy Spirit.

In another place in Acts, the apostles found a group who believed, had been baptized, but had not received the Holy Spirit, and the apostles knew this and laid hands on them then.

When we believe, when the Spirit convicts us in our hearts that Jesus is raised from the dead, we receive from God life, because we have heard the voice of His Son. It is apparent that we need the filling with the Holy Spirit, that it is essential to our walk with our God. When we receive Him, we are equipped for His service, to be His witnesses in the world to His love.
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So am I correct in gathering that there are two calls? Or that you can be saved and not have the Holy Spirit yet?

If so that would run contrary to Romans 8:9. Thoughts?
 
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MaggieMye

Guest
#13
#13
When you are saved, you are owned by Holy Spirit. IF you MUST think that there are 'two calls' then it would have to be that each and every person is 'called' to come to the Lord Jesus...He came so that No one would perish. Then there is the proverbial 'call of God' on your life concerning the type of ministry that He created you to do. Other than that, no, there are not 'two calls'. And even then...we are called to the Cross and if we come, it is the beginning of our ministry...the ministry of getting to know Jesus and making Him known to others. Bottom line.

Maggie
 
M

MaggieMye

Guest
#14
#14
...and the REAL Call?? is to BELIEVE.

M~
 
DinoDillinger

DinoDillinger

Senior Member
#15
Jul 28, 2009
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I guess this is idea is supposed to be some kind of support for carnal christians being actually saved and just not yet having the spirit. Which would start the process of sanctification. I'm not saying I agree at all, but just wanted to see if anyone could support it biblically.
 
VW

VW

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Dec 22, 2009
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DinoDillinger said:
So am I correct in gathering that there are two calls? Or that you can be saved and not have the Holy Spirit yet?

If so that would run contrary to Romans 8:9. Thoughts?
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One call to salvation, and an equipping for service. One is a call, and another is an equipping for living the life of Christ in this world.
 
VW

VW

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Dec 22, 2009
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DinoDillinger said:
I guess this is idea is supposed to be some kind of support for carnal christians being actually saved and just not yet having the spirit. Which would start the process of sanctification. I'm not saying I agree at all, but just wanted to see if anyone could support it biblically.
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In the inner man, the Holy Spirit awakens us to God, makes us alive to Him, and comes to live in us forever. In the filling of the Spirit, we find the strength to live the life of Jesus in the world. To be free from sin's power over us, to walk in the love of God with everyone.
 
VW

VW

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#18
Dec 22, 2009
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Think of this; Jesus was perfect, the Son of God, all of the Godhood in bodily form. And He went to John and was baptized, and when He was raised from the water, the Holy Spirit descended from heaven to be on Him. Are we not following in His footsteps? Are we not buried with Him to be raised in Him to newness of life? And how will that life manifest itself? By bible knowledge? Or by love from God by the Holy Spirit through us?
 
DinoDillinger

DinoDillinger

Senior Member
#19
Jul 28, 2009
839
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#19
VW said:
In the inner man, the Holy Spirit awakens us to God, makes us alive to Him, and comes to live in us forever. In the filling of the Spirit, we find the strength to live the life of Jesus in the world. To be free from sin's power over us, to walk in the love of God with everyone.
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Can you support that with scripture please?
 
C

charisenexcelcis

Guest
#20
#20
While we experience the work of God in us over a period of time, the spiritual truth is that the work was completed on the cross. All of the temporal steps that we experience are like the spokes that fan out from a single hub. My point is that there is only one covenant and one call and all else are various manifestations of the one.
 
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