TRIBULATION LIE

[GaryA]

"Oh -- but - no problem - after the shaking stops, it will be business-as-usual..."

Don't you think that the level of destruction that would have to come from that size of an earthquake - world-wide - would kind-of get-in-the-way of - well - everything on Earth?

Doesn't that level of destruction - and, no heaven - kind-of "mess up" your view of what the 7 years will be like? ( especially, at the beginning of it )

 

[GaryA]

Revelation 6:

[SUP]15[/SUP] And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; [SUP]16[/SUP] And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: [SUP]17[/SUP] For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?


You believe that all of this will be happening at the beginning of the 7 years?

 

[GaryA]

Revelation 6:

[SUP]15[/SUP] And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; [SUP]16[/SUP] And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: [SUP]17[/SUP] For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?


In the context of all of scripture ( with a 'focus' on End Times Scenario prophecy ) - you don't think that this "great day of his wrath" is referring to the Second Coming of Christ?

 

[GaryA]

... chronological order of events, exactly the way that God arranged them in his word ...

God does not always arrange everything in His Word in strict-and-straightforward chronological order.


Revelation 6:

[SUP]12[/SUP] And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; [SUP]13[/SUP] And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. [SUP]14[/SUP] And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. [SUP]15[/SUP] And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; [SUP]16[/SUP] And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: [SUP]17[/SUP] For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?


Believe-it-or-not -- the things listed in this passage are not in chronological order; rather, they are in order of 'significance'. According to my studies...

The earthquake mentioned in verse 12 is the earthquake that causes every mountain and island to be moved out of their places. What is depicted in verses 15-17 actually occurs before what is depicted in verse 14. The stars falling to Earth ( verse 13 ) begin "slow" - during the 'Trumpet' events - and "ramp up" to "many" ( or "all" ) stars falling to Earth at the end of the 'Vials'.

And, I do not believe that all of these things happen as a singular event-in-time; rather, they are "spread out" over a span of time that includes both the 'trumpets' and the 'vials'.

You have to pay very close attention to the details, folks! Some things in the Bible are not written in simple chronological order...

 

[GaryA]

---- 4th Trumpet - Sun, moon and stars are darkened so that a third of the light is missing

Revelation 8:

[SUP]12[/SUP] And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.


This is not talking about one third of the light ( as in, brightness ) - it is talking about one third of the time ( as in how-much-of-the-day ).

In other words -- a third of the day ( and night, also )...

 

[GaryA]

* You are Hear!

Abomination Of Desolation
Great Tribulation <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< You are Here!
Trumpet 1
Trumpet 2
Trumpet 3
Trumpet 4
Trumpet 5
Trumpet 6
Heaven / Temple Opened
JESUS
Trumpet 7
Resurrection & Rapture
Pre-Wrath
Vial 1
Vial 2
Vial 3
Vial 4
Vial 5
Vial 6
Armageddon
Vial 7
Marriage Supper

 

[abcdef]

Revelation 6:

[SUP]15[/SUP] And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; [SUP]16[/SUP] And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: [SUP]17[/SUP] For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?


In the context of all of scripture ( with a 'focus' on End Times Scenario prophecy ) - you don't think that this "great day of his wrath" is referring to the Second Coming of Christ?

Jesus came several times after His resurrection, this would be His coming with "clouds" of armies at the dest of Jerusalem.

Lk 23:30

 

[abcdef]

Abomination Of Desolation
Great Tribulation <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< You are Here!
Trumpet 1
Trumpet 2
Trumpet 3
Trumpet 4
Trumpet 5
Trumpet 6
Heaven / Temple Opened
JESUS
Trumpet 7
Resurrection & Rapture
Pre-Wrath
Vial 1
Vial 2
Vial 3
Vial 4
Vial 5
Vial 6
Armageddon
Vial 7
Marriage Supper

4th beast invades Israel, Rome, iron legs begin

0 ad, Dragon waits to devour Jesus the child, Herod

0 ad, Jesus born

30 ad, Jesus' ministry begins, 69 weeks

33 ad, Jesus' death, resurrection, 69 1/2 weeks, the first fruits of the resurrection, 144000, MNMC#, 12 elders etc., all saved souls from the OT, Adam, Noah, Jacob, Moses John the Baptist, Thief on the cross, etc.

33 ad, War in heaven, Satan thrown down

33 ad, Day of Pentecost, kingdom on earth begins, Jesus rules from the throne of David in heaven, mill begins, first fruits of the Kingdom

37 ad, Israel rejects the kingdom, 70th week ends, gentiles enter kingdom, the natural branches broken off

--

Begin period of the 7 seals

37 ad - 70ad, 1-4 seals, the 4 spirits of the earth are against Israel and Jerusalem, when God withdraws His blessings of protection then evil rushes in.

5th seal, the martyrs seen are from the invasion of the 4th beast Rome onward, who were resurrected with Jesus

6th seal, 70 ad, Jerusalem destroyed, times of the gentiles begin, this is the beginning of the 2nd 3 1/2 times.

7th seal, 70 ad, Everything has been completed to fulfill the requirements in Dan. 12, for the little scroll to be opened, that is the 1st 3 1/2 times.

1/2 hour of silence (from heaven), 70 ad- writing of Rev., Jesus had told about the dest of Jeru and the beginning of the times of the gentiles, but not told about how long the times of the ToGs would last (the answer is 3 1/2 times)

--

Begin 70 ad...great trib begins

7 Trumpets....................................................... 7 vials

The natural branches.......................................... The enemies of God

-

1-4 Trumpets..................................................... 1-4 Vials

Both the vials and trumps are poured out on the 4 parts of creation Rev 14:7

-

5th Trumpet, 1929, the Roman dragon beast nation........5th vial, shows God withdrawing blessings on the seat of the
crawls out of the abyss and becomes a nation again.......beast Rome

1967, Israel is restored to Jerusalem, great trib ends, 2nd 3 1/2 times end, 7 times complete, statue of Dan. 2 completed

6th Trumpet, 2001, Events begin that bring the armies....6th vial, shows how the armies across the Euphrates
from across the Euphrates to attack Israel restored to ....are deceived into attacking Jerusalem
Jerusalem


7th Trumpet, 3 1/2 days after Jerusalem falls................7 vial, shows the end of everything
Resurrection/rapture, judgement, Jesus takes the kingdom

Death destroyed

Jesus delivers the finished kingdom up to the Father for the wedding

 

[Bladerunner]

I forgot to mention -- I would think that an earthquake powerful enough to level every mountain and sink every island would also level [ pretty much ] every city on Earth...

I reckon so....... Now how bad is it going to be!

 

[Ahwatukee]

Great Tribulation <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< You are Here!

GaryA, if you truly believe that we are currently living in the great tribulation period, you have no idea of what is coming.

In no way are we currently living in the time of great tribulation such as the world has not seen from the beginning, until now and never to be equaled again. Nor has the abomination been set up nor have the seals taken place. You have no idea of the severity of God's wrath that is going to come upon this earth.

 

[Ahwatukee]

I forgot to mention -- I would think that an earthquake powerful enough to level every mountain and sink every island would also level [ pretty much ] every city on Earth...

You are correct and that is exactly what that earthquake which takes place at the 7th bowl judgment does. But not the quake that takes place at the 6th seal.

 

[Ahwatukee]

So -- you are saying that you believe that there will be an earthquake "at the beginning of the tribulation" that will be powerful enough to move every island and mountain out of its place - and that it will actually do just exactly that? And then what? Business-as-usual? For what - the first half of seven years - isn't that what you believe? Don't you believe that the first half of seven years will be "peaceful" - before "all hell breaks loose" upon entering the second half of that seven years?

If you will notice, there are multiple earthquakes throughout Revelation during the time of God's wrath. Nothing during that time will be business as usual. That quake at the sixth seal will be powerful, but not devastating like the one which takes place at the 7th bowl.

I believe that the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments will take place as scripture states, like birth pains, getting closer together and more intense as they go.

[SUP]14[/SUP] And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.


Will there be no 'heaven' during the [ entire ] tribulation? After all, it does say that the heaven departs -- which means that it is "gone" - no longer anywhere to be found...

It means that the atmosphere will be rolled back so that the realm of heaven will be visible with God sitting on His throne, which is why people will be wanting to get out of His line of sight. The heavens departing doesn't mean that it remains that way, but only for the purpose of that event.

 

[Bladerunner]

GaryA, if you truly believe that we are currently living in the great tribulation period, you have no idea of what is coming.

In no way are we currently living in the time of great tribulation such as the world has not seen from the beginning, until now and never to be equaled again. Nor has the abomination been set up nor have the seals taken place. You have no idea of the severity of God's wrath that is going to come upon this earth.

Hey Ahwatukee. There are a lot of GaryA(s) on this forum..... Although it is not surprising with Preterism / Emergent Church on the rise. I just am surprised at the length they will go to (cut and paste) the scripture along with any history available to make it say what they need.

I do feel sorry for them because there are a lot of them that may never get the chance to change from their present course. Especially after the Rapture has Happened and God's Wrath begins.

Hope you have a blessed day,

Blade

 

[GaryA]

GaryA, if you truly believe that we are currently living in the great tribulation period, you have no idea of what is coming.

In no way are we currently living in the time of great tribulation such as the world has not seen from the beginning, until now and never to be equaled again. Nor has the abomination been set up nor have the seals taken place. You have no idea of the severity of God's wrath that is going to come upon this earth.

Why do you say things like this...???

Both of us can read in our Bible about the 'Trumpets' and 'Vials' - all "horrible" things prophesied to come to pass. We can both believe that they have not happened yet - that they will come to pass in the future. And somehow - because you think they will begin to come to pass 5 minutes after the start of the Great Tribulation - and, I believe that they will begin to come to pass ~2000 years after the start of the Great Tribulation -- that means that I have no idea of what is coming?????

( You are being a bit ridiculous, don't you think? )

The term 'Great Tribulation' is a label -- that has nothing whatsoever to do with someone's understanding of End Times events as they are described in the Bible. It should be that it is only used in a descriptive way with regard to the 'timing' and 'relation' of events.

Even though my view is different than your view, I STILL believe that they will occur - in the future - just as you do. And, I believe - just as you do - that what will occur will be that which is described in those respective passages of scripture --- just as you do.

Why do you say that I have no idea of the severity of God's Wrath -- when, I read about it in my Bible - and believe that it is future - and, will happen as the Bible says it will - just as you do...

Why are you inclined to say that I have "no idea" about "what is coming"...???

 

[GaryA]

It means that the atmosphere will be rolled back so that the realm of heaven will be visible with God sitting on His throne, which is why people will be wanting to get out of His line of sight. The heavens departing doesn't mean that it remains that way, but only for the purpose of that event.

But, just exactly what 'event'? And, just exactly when?

 

[GaryA]

At the 6th seal, the mountains and islands are stirred from the places, jostled, but remain. Whereas the earthquake which takes place at the 7th bowl will be a world-wide earthquake, which will be the most powerful quake to ever take place since man has been on the earh. The results of that quake will be that the mounts will sink into the earth, most likely from the liquification factor where the water table mixes with the earth and becomes like quicksand. In addition, the cities of the nations will collapse.

The first mentioned earthquake will not be world-wide? According to Revelation 6:14, every mountain and island will be moved out of their places. You don't consider that to be a world-wide earthquake?

*** BUMP ***

 

[GaryA]

Revelation 6:

[SUP]15[/SUP] And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; [SUP]16[/SUP] And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: [SUP]17[/SUP] For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?


You believe that all of this will be happening at the beginning of the 7 years?

*** BUMP ***

 

[GaryA]

Especially after the Rapture has Happened and God's Wrath begins.

I suppose you believe that the only people who will be raptured will be those who believe in 'pre-trib' rapture...?

 

[Katy-follower]

I suppose you believe that the only people who will be raptured will be those who believe in 'pre-trib' rapture...?

I don't believe he was suggesting he believes in a partial rapture at all (the belief that only faithful believers are raptured, while disobedient christians are left behind). That view has been proven to be unbiblical. Those with the oil and those without show the real difference... in that those without are not known to Jesus. He says He never knew them.

Eschatology has nothing to do with salvation. Though I don't agree with preterism at all I won't doubt someone's salvation based on their view of end times events. But it's worrying that some non believers will be misled and not warned of future events about to take place if they're instead told that it all happened in the past.

 

[jjdog]

I don't want to be here at the sixth seal nor the first one. There is overwhelming evidence in the bible for a pretrib. However, those that are killed during the trib will receive glorified bodies. Those that survive will remain in these flesh bodies.