Not By Works

[PeterJens]

God is watching over everyone who is sinning whether they are a believer or not.

The difference with a believer is that they acknowledge it and ask for help. And yes a believers sin pattern may be deep rooted but they cling on to God and say I need help.

So yes God delivers the believer who is struggling with sin.

I had a sin problem of gambling for a long long time, I cried out every day for deliverance.

It only came when I came to realise the truth of who I am in Christ, a son of God.

Now God have clicked his fingers and said your free from gambling the first time I asked him but he did not.

Now I am walking with people with a gambling problem because I truly understand why people go this way.

Its an escape from life and the reality they don't want to face.

Amen. This is a real realisation. We are holy, redeemed people, made pure in His light
and love. I agree that realising who we are in Christ at a deep emotional level changes us.

What I do not like is linking this to a anti-legalist agenda. I think eternally we are made in
Christ to walk righteously, because of being changed within. I never set out to be perfect but
to know the reality of love in my heart. So to know what made a difference for people, to help
them turn the corner is something I prize.

I begin to suspect rather than it being a single issue it is a combination of things in our lives,
and working through them with perseverance. Escapism is one factor, along with the hurts that
started the whole episode. God bless you,

 

[Seohce]

SELFLESS LOVE

I have noticed how the enemy deceived a lot in here by changing the focus of the believer from the true essence of the cross which is SELFLESS LOVE into a SELFISH LOVE. True love is never self-centered,self-seeking or self-serving.

1 Corinthians 13:2,4-7 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a FAITH that can move mountains, BUT HAVE NOT LOVE, I am nothing…. Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

1 John 3:16 This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life FOR US. And we ought to lay down our lives FOR OUR BROTHERS.

---Christ’s finished work on the cross is the reconciliation and justification and not salvation. He was raised from the dead to continue with HIS WORK and not to stay on the cross and that is why there is still SANCTIFICATION, RESURRECTION, JUDGMENT & GLORIFICATION.

The Lord Jesus will come again not to bear our sins but TO SAVE US.

Hebrews 9:26-28…. But now he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself. Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but TO BRING SALVATION to those who are waiting for him.

1 John 3:5,8 But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins…. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work.

THE GOOD & FAITHFUL SERVANTS OF GOD(mat 25:21) WILL WORK AND HARVEST(1cor 3:9,luke 10:2) BECAUSE OF THEIR SELFLESS LOVE THRU JESUS OUR SAVIOR AND SERVANT OF THE FATHER(isaiah 52:13-15, mat 12:18)

THOSE WHO CLAIM TO BE SAVED THRU “FAITH ALONE” VOID OF ANY KIND OF WORKS AND BELIEVES IN A MAN-MADE DOCTRINE “ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED”, WILL NOT JOIN THE WORK BECAUSE OF THEIR PRIDE, VAIN CONCEIT AND SELFISH AMBITION, BEING DECEIVED WHILE DECEIVING OTHERS BY THINKING THAT FAITH PLUS GOOD WORKS IS A DOUBLE CURSED TEACHING.

WHILE THEIR FAITH MIGHT SAVE THEM BUT AS IT IS WRITTEN “FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD”(james 2:14-26)
BECAUSE IF ANYONE THINKS OF HIS OWN SALVATION(PERSONAL SALVATION) WITHOUT CONSIDERING THE SAKE OF THE LEAST OF HIS BRETHREN, HE IS NO LONGER ACTING IN LOVE THUS HIS FAITH IS DEAD.(A SELFISH KIND OF LOVE)

Luke 17:33 Whoever tries to keep his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it.

Philippians 2:3-5 Do nothing out of SELFISH ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider OTHERS better than yourselves. Each of you should look not only to your OWN INTEREST, but also to the interests of others. Your attitude should be the SAME as that of Christ Jesus:

Colossians 3:17 And whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.

Matthew 25:40 “The King will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.’

 

[dcontroversal]

Now in another thread some are saying that those who don't believe in a pretrib rapture are lost, will be left behind, but may be among those who "find God" during the tribulation... and also seem to be claiming that eschatology contributes to our salvation, while referencing the foolish Galatians as apparently an example of believers who lost their salvation

Just shows how ignorance runs deep among those who claim Christ.........

 

[dcontroversal]

Dcon,why do you think Methodist teach that works save?

If they do,that aren't part of the United Methodist Church.
John Wesley strongly preached against adding works to be saved.

The current statement of faith is as follows:

We Are Saved - The United Methodist Church

That may be their statement of faith, but I stated what I did based upon my interaction with possibly 50 Methodists over my life.....everyone to a man argued that works were part of the equation and about half even stated that if they were decent moral people that God would not send them to hell....

I tried to go back and state that there were possible exceptions but my service was crappy at the airport in Cairns........

 

[Grace777x70]

Just shows how ignorance runs deep among those who claim Christ.........

Check this out Dcon. This one never sins. Never.

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/153188-does-them-2.html#post3112920

 

[dcontroversal]

Faith + fruitful works = real faith.

Faith + no fruit = dead faith & cut off from the true vine.

Faith + false theology = tares = death.

Faith plus works of wood, hay and stubble still equals saved and works do not save, keep saved or embellish salvation...Galatians 1 and 3

and to be frank....your theology aligns with number three on the list...does that make you a dead tare?

 

[NoNameMcgee]

Check this out Dcon. This one never sins. Never.

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/153188-does-them-2.html#post3112920

it sounds like hes sayin he doesnt knowingly sin
or choose it intentionally ahead of time

but he does sin
by mistake or impulsively

like he doesnt masterbate
or smoke
or hurt people in any way



maybe im wrong

but thats what it sounds like hes sayin

 

[dcontroversal]

The list above demonstrates what emotional conviction blinds you to.
The whole of protestant faith is rejected. With such fanaticism, how can
anyone agree. Most believers here fall into one or more of these groups.

So who is sowing division and discord? Emphasis fine, but this is saying
these believers are sending people to hell. This at very least is judgementalism,
at worst apostacy.

Now some will applaud this assault, but who assaults the people of God with such
vehemence and anger? It is not a friend desiring for reconciliation to God and repentance
of sin!!!! Where is the righteous walk, the humbling, the tears and weeping, the pleading to
God for revival and truth. This is truly what we need, a return to our first love, the Father of
us all.

Try again Peter....any group that peddles a false theology of works and faith to get salvation, keep salvation or keep from losing salvation is not identified with the Heavenly Father....or JESUS......!

 

[dcontroversal]

Faith + Jesus = good works

AMEN.....the workers for still fail to understand that any work or fruit produced is the result of JESUS in that person by faith and salvation already possessed.....and NATURE/CREATION itself proves this stance.....it is the ROOT that produces the fruit and the process of bearing fruit takes growth and maturity.....an apple tree is an apple tree from the moment it sprouts (birth) and will not produce 1 apple for years to come....at the end of the day....1 apple is sufficient to recognise an apple tree.....without the ROOT (JESUS) no fruit can be produced....all we do as branches is bear the fruit that is produced by the root.....exactly why ALL glory goes to God dia JESUS.......the workers for, just like the enemy himself seek to steal the glory and boast in what they have done....exactly why the number before JESUS that gets cast is plenteous!

 

[mailmandan]

Check this out Dcon. This one never sins. Never.

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/153188-does-them-2.html#post3112920

Those who believe they never sin at all are suffering from a terminal case of self righteousness (1 John 1:8-10).

 

[dcontroversal]

God is watching over everyone who is sinning whether they are a believer or not.

The difference with a believer is that they acknowledge it and ask for help. And yes a believers sin pattern may be deep rooted but they cling on to God and say I need help.

So yes God delivers the believer who is struggling with sin.

I had a sin problem of gambling for a long long time, I cried out every day for deliverance.

It only came when I came to realise the truth of who I am in Christ, a son of God.

Now God have clicked his fingers and said your free from gambling the first time I asked him but he did not.

Now I am walking with people with a gambling problem because I truly understand why people go this way.

Its an escape from life and the reality they don't want to face.

The big difference is four fold.....

a. The blood covers our sin continually as it has been applied by faith
b. The grace of God out bounds our sin
c. Jesus mediates on our behalf continually
d. The condemnation of the law has been removed forever for those who have believed.......

 

[NoNameMcgee]

Faith + Jesus = good works

well said

 

[Grace777x70]

it sounds like hes sayin he doesnt knowingly sin
or choose it intentionally ahead of time

but he does sin
by mistake or impulsively

like he doesnt masterbate
or smoke
or hurt people in any way



maybe im wrong

but thats what it sounds like hes sayin

He denies that he sins at all. All sin is willful in some degree. He also says that there is no such thing as the righteousness of God in Christ and that Christ is not our righteousness.

 

[dcontroversal]

Check this out Dcon. This one never sins. Never.

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/153188-does-them-2.html#post3112920

Yeah I have dealt with him before......there have always been saved men of faith on this planet at the time when the following statements were penned under inspiration...

There is not a just man upon the earth that does good and sins not.

There is none good, but God.

If we say that we have no sin we are deceived and the truth is not in us.

There are NONE righteous no not ONE.

These sinless perfectionists take one scripture out of John's letters and equate it to a believer not ever sinning....this is false and denies the obvious truth that is rejected by these people....

A. It is the spirit that has been born again of seed that is past the ability to corrupt, that born again spirit seeks to do what is right, never sins, and is always willing to obey the word of God

b. It is bound in a fallen dead body of sin that is not subject unto the word of God.

c. The battle ground is the mind where cognitive decisions are made

Jesus said it best....the spirit is indeed willing, but the flesh is week.....Paul covers this extensively and speaks to the conflict that takes place within a believer and goes on to say that when he does not do what he is supposed to do it is SIN THAT DWELLS IN HIM.....EVEN DANIEL had to confess his sin........

Those who say they do not sin are liars....end of story......YES we can suppress sin, manage sin through Christ and even stop or quit particular sins through the power of JESUS......but at the end of the day NO ONE is completely SINLESS, nor will they ever be until the day they...

a. DIE
b. Get a glorified body

End of story!

 

[PeterJens]

Try again Peter....any group that peddles a false theology of works and faith to get salvation, keep salvation or keep from losing salvation is not identified with the Heavenly Father....or JESUS......!

dc - I am sorry I am not trying to convince you, because for some strange reason
you have closed your heart.

It is why though I have no reason to superficially say a rcc priest does not know the Lord,
some do, and they sometimes are more alive than their protestant pastors.

Life is a lot stranger than your simplistic judgements, and thankfully we are not the judge.

I was told once I was a cessationist, yet I believe in the gifts and pray in tongues.
Some said I was wrong saying Jesus is about love, that was old style faith.
Another said I had a evil spirit and they could create things exnihilo.

Well I am still here and they have realised their error. So I await either you change
your tune or disappear. You seem impervious to everything except the love of your son.

You need to love me in the same way. I am not your enemy, and Jesus is very much trying
to reach out to you despite whatever hurts you project on to me. And they must be enormous because
it drives you to distort and miss read everything I write. Jesus is my King and I live a life of love
and praise. But how can this be in the theology you have made? And love is the key not your
condemning approach and apparent war against others. We are examples of light not warriors
or had you not noticed my friend? God bless you, through the cross and resurrection of Jesus Christ
our Lord, amen

 

[Grace777x70]

Those who believe they never sin at all are suffering from a terminal case of self righteousness (1 John 1:8-10).

Which is why those that have this belief system reject the righteousness of God in Christ.

They need to create and maintain their own righteousness which is why they can't see a baby Christian that fails in their walk with the Lord and are deceived by the deceitfulness of sin.

These types condemn these young ones in Christ and thus drive them from God with their "you are going to hell" nonsense and constant condemnation of others in the body of Christ.

It is an anti-Christ belief system that denies the very grace of God that is needed for our transformation to walk out what is already in us in our new creation in Christ.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

He denies that he sins at all. All sin is willful in some degree. He also says that there is no such thing as the righteousness of God in Christ and that Christ is not our righteousness.

hmm
i agree all sin is willful in some way or another

just because something is "impulsive" doesnt mean you didnt have a choice

and just because you didnt learn something doesnt mean God didnt give us a heart that can determine good from evil in most cases (unless you sear it)

1 tim

4 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

 

[dcontroversal]

He denies that he sins at all. All sin is willful in some degree. He also says that there is no such thing as the righteousness of God in Christ and that Christ is not our righteousness.

All three statements are not of God and are of the devil.....just as one particular member states that Jesus is not enough and or the imputed righteousness of Christ is a neat little trick that does not work.....God's SPIRIT would not lead a true believer to say such foolish things.......and while I am there.....

Everyone needs to get over this farce of believing that we are ALL BROTHERS and SISTERS in Christ......ONLY those who are genuinely born again can equate themselves to being brothers and sisters in Christ......one who is not SAVED by the one and only way cannot be identified as a brother or sister in Christ because ALL lost men and women are children of the devil until they actually acknowledge JESUS by faith...JESUS said MANY will claim to know HIM, BOAST of ALL they have done in HIS NAME and he will state....

a. I never knew you<---they were never saved
b. The works they boast of will not earn their right to the kingdom

I know this is a hard truth and pill to swallow, nonetheless it is the truth....two cannot walk together unless the be agreed....If this offends you I apologise, but I will not apologise for the truth of what i have just said.

 

[dcontroversal]

Which is why those that have this belief system reject the righteousness of God in Christ.

They need to create and maintain their own righteousness which is why they can't see a baby Christian that fails in their walk with the Lord and are deceived by the deceitfulness of sin.

These types condemn these young ones in Christ and thus drive them from God with their "you are going to hell" nonsense and constant condemnation of others in the body of Christ.

It is an anti-Christ belief system that denies the very grace of God that is needed for our transformation to walk out what is already in us in our new creation in Christ.

Amen and I agree.....to interject self into the equation steals the glory from Christ....exactly what Lucifer wanted to do when he boasted 7 times I WILL.......

 

[PeterJens]

A quick observation. If someone over a whole year cannot find an obvious sin to confess
is it unreasonable for them to surmise they have not sinned over that year.

Now does it matter, unless you believe it is impossible, which means it is so annoying you
are convinced they are evil liars just pretending. But what if it is true and they live a secluded
peaceful life of prayer and praise. What you need to do, if you really think they are sinning, is
write out the sins you know you are committing and ask yourself could your stop doing this,
easily. And if the answer is yes, you know you are just allowing yourself to be compromised.

Now I truly have no reason to believe some can walk like this, to I just praise the Lord for their
testimony, Amen