Born Again Vs. Saved

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Nov 23, 2013
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Well surely it has to be the one where you thought I did not address the issue - there is no issue to address.
That verse emphatically does NOT say that Jesus was simultaneously in heaven and on earth.
I do agree! He' talking about another heaven.
 

graceNpeace

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2016
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I do agree! He' talking about another heaven.
You are deluded.

I know that your views are stupid (to me) but very dangerous for others who don't see you for what you are.
Your KJVO stand puts you way out of Christianity for a start and it is also clear that you have plenty of weird theological views that are non-Christian - hence your utter determination to defend untenable interpretations of the Bible.

You are an heretic - you need to be called out as one.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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there is no understanding if you try to isolate verses bro. its like if you read a book you dont try to seperate the sentances youll never get the undrstanding by trying that way. its the message that all the sentances make. Jesus is our Lord, whats that make us? those in submission to His words or what some call His will. One verse theology is half the reason for all the confusion. one doesnt erase the rest its the message that saves and gives ne birth
I don't base what I believe on just one verse, all doctrines as far as I can see are found in multiple places in the bible. That being said, no ONE VERSE will contradict the others. I use single verses for ease of unerstanding during discussion.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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You are deluded.

I know that your views are stupid (to me) but very dangerous for others who don't see you for what you are.
Your KJVO stand puts you way out of Christianity for a start and it is also clear that you have plenty of weird theological views that are non-Christian - hence your utter determination to defend untenable interpretations of the Bible.

You are an heretic - you need to be called out as one.
I understand you think I'm an idiot... so be it. You could at least discuss WHY you don't believe there are 2 heavens.
 

graceNpeace

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2016
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I understand you think I'm an idiot... so be it. You could at least discuss WHY you don't believe there are 2 heavens.
No.

Why don't you come out and explicitly state your doctrinal position as I have already asked you to do?
It is clear that your KJVO position is only the start of your heretical position.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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No.

Why don't you come out and explicitly state your doctrinal position as I have already asked you to do?
It is clear that your KJVO position is only the start of your heretical position.
My position is that there are 2 heavens - 1 where Jesus came from and 2 the heaven Jesus came to on earth. The 2nd is not a physichal heaven like where Jesus came from, it's a state of mind, it's a spiritual kingdom.

When we are born again we can see and live in this kingdom while here on earth.
 

graceNpeace

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2016
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My position is that there are 2 heavens - 1 where Jesus came from and 2 the heaven Jesus came to on earth. The 2nd is not a physichal heaven like where Jesus came from, it's a state of mind, it's a spiritual kingdom.

When we are born again we can see and live in this kingdom while here on earth.
And what about the rest of your beliefs?
 
Nov 23, 2013
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And what about the rest of your beliefs?
If your asking what denomination or which preacher I follow, I don't follow anyone and I don't go to any church, I just read the bible and the Holy Spirit guides me.

I was brought up Southern Baptist and regrettably attended church regularly... it took me many years to undo the false teachings I was taught in church.
 

graceNpeace

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2016
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If your asking what denomination or which preacher I follow, I don't follow anyone and I don't go to any church, I just read the bible and the Holy Spirit guides me.

I was brought up Southern Baptist and regrettably attended church regularly... it took me many years to undo the false teachings I was taught in church.
But for some reason you are unable to share what you ACTUALLY DO BELIEVE now.
 

preacher4truth

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2016
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If your asking what denomination or which preacher I follow I don't follow anyone
This is a common misnomer. You follow the teachings of others and that is a fact, they are not your own, you don't own them and they were not discovered by you. You are highly influenced by other men's teachings which is why you read Scripture through their lens.

and I don't go to any church
This is a major problem. With you, not with any particular church. You hold disdain for the body of Christ, for the bride of Christ. That is not good. It is actually very bad.

I just read the bible and the Holy Spirit guides me.
If this were true you'd be in a local church.

I was brought up Southern Baptist and regrettably attended church regularly...
Yeah, well I bought some bad fuel once so I burned all of our vehicles and vowed to never drive again.

Not.

I found a different gas station.


it took me many years to undo the false teachings I was taught in church.
Looks like you need to undo many more false teachings you hold to. That you're not in church, hold disdain for church and present yourself as some spiritual maverick is troubling. No, you do present yourself that way in so many words.

You truly need to repent, you're on the wrong, wrong path. I figured something else was amiss with you other than your KJVO sectarianism. The church you belonged to last needs to find you and put you under church discipline for your departing from the faith and from gathering together. Restoration is always the objective, but given your attitude it doesn't appear that is possible.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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But for some reason you are unable to share what you ACTUALLY DO BELIEVE now.
What do you want me to do, write a 500 page essay on everythin I believe? If it's in the bible then I believe it, it's not then I don't.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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This is a common misnomer. You follow the teachings of others and that is a fact, they are not your own, you don't own them and they were not discovered by you. You are highly influenced by other men's teachings which is why you read Scripture through their lens.



This is a major problem. With you, not with any particular church. You hold disdain for the body of Christ, for the bride of Christ. That is not good. It is actually very bad.



If this were true you'd be in a local church.



Yeah, well I bought some bad fuel once so I burned all of our vehicles and vowed to never drive again.

Not.

I found a different gas station.




Looks like you need to undo many more false teachings you hold to. That you're not in church, hold disdain for church and present yourself as some spiritual maverick is troubling. No, you do present yourself that way in so many words.

You truly need to repent, you're on the wrong, wrong path. I figured something else was amiss with you other than your KJVO sectarianism. The church you belonged to last needs to find you and put you under church discipline for your departing from the faith and from gathering together. Restoration is always the objective, but given your attitude it doesn't appear that is possible.
I'll stick with the inerrant bible, men will lead us astray. Let's stick with relevant discussion to the topic, what is your view on Jesus being in heaven while he was on earth?
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
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What do you want me to do, write a 500 page essay on everythin I believe? If it's in the bible then I believe it, it's not then I don't.
That could have been fun. But I think you messed it up.

We believe some stuff that's not in the bible. Like the laws of thermodynamics and math. We believe that the French will probably surrender. We believe that Reeses is the best chocolate candy.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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That could have been fun. But I think you messed it up.

We believe some stuff that's not in the bible. Like the laws of thermodynamics and math. We believe that the French will probably surrender. We believe that Reeses is the best chocolate candy.
I meant that in the theological belief sense lol.
 
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graceNpeace

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2016
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What do you want me to do, write a 500 page essay on everythin I believe? If it's in the bible then I believe it, it's not then I don't.
Actually you believe in misinterpretations of the Bible - as I have demonstrated.

All the issues that you have raised - threads that you have started, scriptures that you have given and then given your interpretation make you sound like a poster-boy for Armstrongism:
Your belief that salvation and being born again are NOT the same;
Your weird interpretation of 1 Peter 1:3, with your insistence on a false interpretation of the word begotten; and
Not to mention the strange views you have about heaven.

Furthermore, the KJV of the Bible is the absolute go to version for almost all cults.
Why?
It is just so easy to use the archaic language and unusual vocabulary to bamboozle people.
Not to mention that you are an avowed KJVO supporter in the first place!

You are not just a victim in this process - your behaviour on this forum of trying to push heretical beliefs makes you a perpetrator. The questions you ask are not those of a genuine, if confused, seeker looking for truth.
You are attempting as hard as you can to justify your beliefs and bringing people to your way of thinking.
That is why I have been harsh on you and have called you an heretic.

You are lost.
In all seriousness, the spirit that is guiding you is not the Holy Spirit!
 
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Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
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I believe that our church softball team needs more practice.

I believe that my dog understands english.

I believe that Stephenie Meyer is the best female author.

I believe that the "reality" shows my wife watches on t.v. are really dumb and no one should watch them.
 

preacher4truth

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2016
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I'll stick with the inerrant bible, men will lead us astray.
Honestly you hold to more error than most people, you're leading yourself astray and are on an unsustainable path.

The disdain you hold for church goers is the same you hold for people here - for they are church goers as well. You despise the fact you used to be around these people regularly and now you are reduced down to quarreling about a Bible version many many hours a day on a forum. This is all showing how you feel about the Bride of Christ. That's not going to go over very well for you.

There won't be some room up in heaven for you apart from all other believers.

Let's stick with relevant discussion to the topic, what is your view on Jesus being in heaven while he was on earth?
I have stuck to what is relevant as long as you believe your post to which I responded had some relevancy.

At this point I won't regard you as a brother, or engage with you until you come to repentance. That's just being biblical, you and others can think that harsh or whatever you want to think. I do it regretfully.

I pray God brings you to repentance. Hebrews 10:25; 1 John 2:19.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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Actually you believe in misinterpretations of the Bible - as I have demonstrated.

All the issues that you have raised - threads that you have started, scriptures that you have given and then given your interpretation make you sound like a poster-boy for Armstrongism:
Your belief that salvation and being born again are NOT the same;
Your weird interpretation of 1 Peter 1:3, with your insistence on a false interpretation of the word begotten; and
Not to mention the strange views you have about heaven.

Furthermore, the KJV of the Bible is the absolute go to version for almost all cults.
Why?
It is just so easy to use the archaic language and unusual vocabulary to bamboozle people.
Not to mention that you are an avowed KJVO supporter in the first place!

You are not just a victim in this process - your behaviour on this forum of trying to push heretical beliefs makes you a perpetrator. The questions you ask are not those of a genuine, if confused, seeker looking for truth.
You are attempting as hard as you can to justify your beliefs and bringing people to your way of thinking.
That is why I have been harsh on you and have called you an heretic.

You are lost.
In all seriousness, the spirit that is guiding you is not the Holy Spirit!
They said Jesus had a devil lol... I'm in pretty good company. Now if you through spewing hatred, let's discuss which heaven Jesus was talking about when he said you must be born again to enter it. Which do you think, the heaven that's not on this earth or the heaven that Jesus was in on this earth?
 
Nov 23, 2013
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Honestly you hold to more error than most people, you're leading yourself astray and are on an unsustainable path.

The disdain you hold for church goers is the same you hold for people here - for they are church goers as well. You despise the fact you used to be around these people regularly and now you are reduced down to quarreling about a Bible version many many hours a day on a forum. This is all showing how you feel about the Bride of Christ. That's not going to go over very well for you.

There won't be some room up in heaven for you apart from all other believers.



I have stuck to what is relevant as long as you believe your post to which I responded had some relevancy.

At this point I won't regard you as a brother, or engage with you until you come to repentance. That's just being biblical, you and others can think that harsh or whatever you want to think. I do it regretfully.

I pray God brings you to repentance. Hebrews 10:25; 1 John 2:19.
Sounds good to me man - Stop engaging me.
 

graceNpeace

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2016
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They said Jesus had a devil lol... I'm in pretty good company. Now if you through spewing hatred, let's discuss which heaven Jesus was talking about when he said you must be born again to enter it. Which do you think, the heaven that's not on this earth or the heaven that Jesus was in on this earth?
No.
We are not going to discuss this.

I don't have any interest in dignifying your heresy.
You make it very clear that you have no intention of addressing your non-Christian beliefs.
And you have ignored preacher4truth's very sound advice.