Born Again Vs. Saved

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Mar 28, 2016
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I don't blame you for not wanting read all 12 pages lol. The basic idea is that I think we believe God and we are saved, next comes the 2nd birth, the birth of the mind of Christ in us which comes later after much time in the word.
Sounds like a works righteousness as the intellectual gospel after the wisdom (philosophies) of this world a stumbling block. What has a person received from God and if they have why would a person act as if they have not? He does cause the growth.


1Co 1:22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
 
Nov 23, 2013
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we are born again (made alive in Christ) Because we are saved, we must be saved from the penalty of sin in order to be made alive in Christ, if we are not completely saved from the penalty of sin, we are not born again, period.
Can you see the kingdom of God, have you entered into it?
 
Nov 23, 2013
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May I ask why you have refused sound counsel? There is nowhere in the bible that we are to fly solo, but worship corporately in a local church. That's why, even though I am a huge fan of his, I don't cut A.W. Pink any slack. Yes, he was a very deep theologically based man of God, but he too, had no grounds to not attend a local assembly.

I am one of the biggest believers in the election of grace that you can find. However, here where I live, ppl won't have it. They hold to this mythical free will. But that does not stop me from going to church. I love God's ppl. Why? Because they're my ppl.
I'm assembling with the saints right now.
 

JaumeJ

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Jul 2, 2011
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Eye hath not seen-----------

What has been prepared for us all is way too awesome and wondrous to imagine for a mere creature, even those allready adopted have only had a glimpse of what is to come.

The treasures and rewards are nothing compared to the Kingdom itself. Prasie Jesus Crhist, amen.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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You look at the scripture the way I do, with questions like why and what does that mean.

I can see the kingdom of God , in fact I see it every where... it's on the news, it's in movies, it's in secular music, like I said it's every where. I'm not sure what it means to be born of water and of spirit. I don't think its the mainline belief though - water is physical and spirit is a new spirit in us. I think the water represents immersion in the word (John's baptism) and the spirit is the Christ in us.... this is not something I am dogmatic on though.

I like what you said about "some who are not born of the flesh", I see where you're coming from and I agree. Thanks for commenting... you're a breath of fresh air!

I would offer, the water of the word is the doctrines of God, spoken of in parables. He washes His bride the church with His doctrines the same way husbands are to wash their wives with.

I believe we can see that in the parable below. Rain, dew, small rain and showers as metaphors speak of its continual cleansing action of His word in our hearts.

Deu 32:1 Give ear, O ye heavens, and I will speak; and hear, O earth, the words of my mouth.
Deu 32:2 My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass:

John’s baptism is ceremonial in nature it began in the Old testament and was used when a new priest would enter the ministry. Today it is in respect to a kingdom of priest, In that way all believers are part of that priesthood and can show their desire to serve by sprinkling H20 to symbolize the baptism of the Holy Spirit
 
Nov 23, 2013
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In John 3, Jesus said to Nicodemus that he must be born again (or from above, depends on what we like more).

Nicodemus then asks how it can happen and Jesus says "Spirit blows wherever he wishes", meaning its on the side of God, not ours.

So when it is not on our side, how can we first belive and then be born again? It would be just reaction from the side of God, not his "blowing wherever He wishes".

From this I deduce it is not something we can control, therefore not even our faith can control it.
I see your point on this one and I am looking hard at this and the one Dcon brought up. The wind blows where it wants and we don't know where it comes from nor where it goes. So is every one that is born of the Spirit. I think the comparison is between the wind and those that have the Spirit, not how they get the Spirit.
 
P

popeye

Guest
I think there is a difference between Christ in our hearts and Christ in our minds. I'm not sure which would be considered the born again part of us - The Spirit of Christ or the inner man, or the Christ in us. That's one of the reasons I wanted to open this up for discussion.
Ok,redemption is what Jesus did (purchased us)

Saved is what Jesus did (saved us)

Born again is a NEW HEART,NEW SPIRIT,A REBIRTHED SPIRIT,A SPIRIT JOINED,INVADED,POSSESSED BY JESUS,.

A new creation. A new man. A slave to Jesus. Consumed by him.

Enter the mind. The mind Follows the spirit. It Becomes Transformed by the word. Brain washed,if you will.
Enter work,disciple,determination,and dependence on the HS.

In the temple,the laver was for washing.

That also is the work of the word. The word,the bible,with the HS,Washes your mind. Forces it to decide. Shows it different thinking.

The bible says the carnal mind is enmity Against God. An enemy.

The church in Corinth was carnal. Carnally minded. Born again,but carnally minded.

All saved individuals are born again. That dynamic can not be separated.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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I see your point on this one and I am looking hard at this and the one Dcon brought up. The wind blows where it wants and we don't know where it comes from nor where it goes. So is every one that is born of the Spirit. I think the comparison is between the wind and those that have the Spirit, not how they get the Spirit.

They get it as the wind brings it, it is how we get it.(not of our own self)
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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They get it as the wind brings it, it is how we get it.(not of our own self)
It means that the Holy Spirit comes as He will, to one and not to the other. We cannot observe Him. We only know His presence by His actions..
 
Dec 28, 2016
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I'm assembling with the saints right now.
But that's taking that verse outta context. Worship is a mixture of worship through songs, prayer and preaching. This does not take the place of public worship.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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Good question: We are birthed into a New operation of Living, by way of our dormant spirit being enlivened (John 3:6; 4:24; 2 Timothy 4:22; Matthew 28:20), and by way of that newly acquired reestablishing of what God originally had set-up to be natural, which, in our sinful nature, is unnatural, we are availed the New Creations births opportunity in liberty to serve and live godly. all of which starts thru the Cross and resurrection of Christ...

This after accepting our problem of sin, and judgement of God, and Sin's death sentence, and the fact we cannot be right enough in and of our own efforts to earn Eternal life, and as we Believe and receive what Chrit has done on the Cross and being rose to be seated at the right hand of God now interceding for us, as we are also seated with Him as we remain in Christ, believing this and confessing our sins we have Eternal life, with no judgement and have crossed over from death to life. (Romans 3:23; Hebrews 9:27; Romans 6:23; Ephesians 2:8-9; John 1:12; Romans 10:9-10; John 5:24).

But as the set-up is in place in our new found innocence and liberty we must also make that New Creation the life of God thru Jesus Christ only and always as we remain hidden in Christ empowering us. Of course there needs to be maturing and growing in this life.

We forget in the original condition of Adam before the fall, even though he was so perfect, so pure, so clean, and so good, with nothing changed, nothing damaged, nothing corrupted, or nothing ruined, he still needed the life of God.

For us now, we need the Cross and we must remain in the Cross to have the life in Christ and with God bear fruit. Jesus, on a cross, as well as we on that cross with Him then, gives us back that innocence and liberty thru Jesus Christ. But we still need God's life to come into us. When God's life get's in, we are regenerated, we are then in Christ. And we live by faith in our obligation of love to righteousness (a properly aligned / right relationship to Our loving Father: God thru Our Lord and Savior who loved us even to death on a Cross: Christ Jesus).

This re-birth then affects our soul-life (which is not the same as the flesh when we are in Christ); our physical life; and now with our dormant spirit now awakened to be able to live in Christ - our divine life.

Hence, our spirit has been born of God coming into our spirit as life. (John 3:6b), Now the Divine life is in our spirit (Spirit leading spirit, as we willfully operate by it). Our spirit was born because God's life (via the Cross of Christ) got into it, and this birth has nothing to do with our fall.

Even if Adam had never fallen, he still would have needed to be born in this way. He still needed to have God come into him as life, otherwise he could not express God. We have to be born-again by having the life of God get into us. This life gets into our spirit, and our spirit is born. Now in our spirit there is life; and this life is just God Himself (the person via Christ Jesus the person). We are then gripped by God who will never let us go, as we are and must remain in Christ living in accordance to the Holy Spirit, and allowing Jesus to finish His work in us, which Paul describes as "I am not yet, nor have I become perfect; BUT I am charging on to gain anything and everything Jesus has in store for me - and nothing will stand in my way because He has grabbed me and won't let go!....There is one thing I am doing: I am leaving my old life behind, putting everything on the line for this mission. I am sprinting toward the only goal that counts: to cross the line, to win the prize, and to hear God's call to resurrection life found exclusively in Jesus Christ." (Philippians 3:12-15). I am then in Christ as I live by way of righteousness, which is in God thru Christ and the Holy Spirit..Literally, and miraculously becoming Christ-like in my new person serving his intentions and purposes in love and power.
We most definitely change when we are saved. I remember when I saved I was never the same from that day forward and I could feel the presence of God in my life. I believe God did create a new spirit in me which I think is the Spirit of Christ and maybe this is the second birth but I don't think so, because I do know that Christ had not been formed in me at that time, I really didn't know anything about Christ other than he saved me.

I look at my own life and see the word of God doing what Paul was doing in Galatians 4:19. It did eventually happen and Christ was birthed in me and I began to see the kingdom of God and I entered into that kingdom.

Galatians 4:19 KJV
My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,

I enjoyed reading your post, thank you for that.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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Paul told the spiritually immature church at Corinth in 1st Corinthians 2 that THEY HAD THE MIND OF CHRIST.......this seems to contradict your statement above.....

For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.

Who is the we in we have the mind of Christ, immature Christians or people like Paul. Do you and I have the same mind of Christ? Of course we don't or we would agree. Are you saved, I think you are. Am I saved, yes I know I am. Yet we don't have the same mind.

1 Corinthians 2:16 KJV
For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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Jesus did declare He came not to bring peace on earth but to divide............. You may have the mind of Christ and another may have the same, however this does not conclude that all will be inagreement.

Another indication of this is when Jesus revealed that come the Kingd om many will be surprised just who is there with them.....

God's ways are not the ways of man. Remember , our Father can do anyting. You do believe He is the All Mighty? I sure do.

Who is the we in we have the mind of Christ, immature Christians or people like Paul. Do you and I have the same mind of Christ? Of course we don't or we would agree. Are you saved, I think you are. Am I saved, yes I know I am. Yet we don't have the same mind.

1 Corinthians 2:16 KJV
For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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Jesus did declare He came not to bring peace on earth but to divide............. You may have the mind of Christ and another may have the same, however this does not conclude that all will be inagreement.

Another indication of this is when Jesus revealed that come the Kingd om many will be surprised just who is there with them.....

God's ways are not the ways of man. Remember , our Father can do anyting. You do believe He is the All Mighty? I sure do.
God can do everything, no doubt and yes I believe he is the all mighty but I don't believe every saved person has the mind of Christ from day one, it's not possible because the mind of Christ comes from reading the word.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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Nowhere have I said they have the mind of Christ........My point is two may have the mind of Christ in part, for no man has His mind in full, and they may not agree on a pioint. This does not take away the salvation of either, nor does it make either wrong.......

God can do everything, no doubt and yes I believe he is the all mighty but I don't believe every saved person has the mind of Christ from day one, it's not possible because the mind of Christ comes from reading the word.