King James Bible ONLY? Or NOT?

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graceNpeace

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2016
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You are correct - the Mosaic Covenant and its outworking - Mosaic Law has not been annulled.

However, Jesus Christ fulfilled the righteous requirements of that Covenant, that Law, for us on the cross.
If you accept this then the requirements of the Mosaic Covenant are not binding on you.
If one rejects Jesus Christ and what He achieved on the cross then, the consequences of the Law are upon you.

Paul states very clearly in Galatians 3:24-25:

24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.Gal 3:24-25

Christians are not bound under the Law, the Mosaic Covenant has been fulfilled in Christ Jesus.

Paul never describes the Mosaic Law as evil or wrong in any - but he does put it into context:

7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.”[a] 8 But sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire. For apart from the law sin was dead. 9 I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died. 10 And the commandment, which was to bring life, I found to bring death. 11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it killed me. 12 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good. Rom 7:7:-12

Carefully read the whole passage - Paul is stating that all the law can do is bring death.
But something has changed through the advent of Jesus Christ and His sacrifice on the cross:

21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all[h] who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law. 29 Or is He the God of the Jews only? Is He not also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also, 30 since there is one God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith. 31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law. Rom 3:21-31

Read Romans 3:21-31 carefully.
If one is Christian one is believing that one is justified (a precise legal term meaning not guilty) by grace through faith that Jesus Christ was indeed a propitiation (a payment in full) for our sins.

Not only is righteous requirement of the Law fulfilled but a new Covenant is birthed, one that Paul refers to here as the "
law of faith." Rom 3:27. In other words it is not the law of Moses that justifies (it can only condemn), but the law of faith - salvation by grace through faith in the sufficiency of the blood sacrifice made by Christ Jesus.

So the question remains:
Does one place oneself under the Mosaic Covenant - and receive condemnation and death under its legal statutes; OR
Does one place one's faith in Jesus Christ and receive forgiveness and justification for sins and thus salvation by grace through faith?
 
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willybob

Guest
they also omit "the only begotten" which diminishes His Deity. The word begotten is very descriptive because He proceeded from the bosom of the Father
 
Nov 23, 2013
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the word church is problematic and has kidnapped the reality of 2 or more gathered (congregated) in HIS name, (anytime any place 24/7), thus moving the focus onto a building or institution.... one my say a 3 ring circus..
t
What do English speakers call the body of Christ lol?
 
W

willybob

Guest
You are correct - the Mosaic Covenant and its outworking - Mosaic Law has not been annulled.

However, Jesus Christ fulfilled the righteous requirements of that Covenant, that Law, for us on the cross.
If you accept this then the requirements of the Mosaic Covenant are not binding on you.
If one rejects Jesus Christ and what He achieved on the cross then, the consequences of the Law are upon you.

Paul states very clearly in Galatians 3:24-25:

24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.Gal 3:24-25

Christians are not bound under the Law, the Mosaic Covenant has been fulfilled in Christ Jesus.

Paul never describes the Mosaic Law as evil or wrong in any - but he does put it into context:

7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.”[a] 8 But sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire. For apart from the law sin was dead. 9 I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died. 10 And the commandment, which was to bring life, I found to bring death. 11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it killed me. 12 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good. Rom 7:7:-12

Carefully read the whole passage - Paul is stating that all the law can do is bring death.
But something has changed through the advent of Jesus Christ and His sacrifice on the cross:

21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all[h] who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law. 29 Or is He the God of the Jews only? Is He not also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also, 30 since there is one God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith. 31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law. Rom 3:21-31

Read Romans 3:21-31 carefully.
If one is Christian one is believing that one is justified (a precise legal term meaning not guilty) by grace through faith that Jesus Christ was indeed a propitiation (a payment in full) for our sins.

Not only is righteous requirement of the Law fulfilled but a new Covenant is birthed, one that Paul refers to here as the "
law of faith." Rom 3:27. In other words it is not the law of Moses that justifies (it can only condemn), but the law of faith - salvation by grace through faith in the sufficiency of the blood sacrifice made by Christ Jesus.

So the question remains:
Does one place oneself under the Mosaic Covenant - and receive condemnation and death under its legal statutes; OR
Does one place one's faith in Jesus Christ and receive forgiveness and justification for sins and thus salvation by grace through faith?
this is true, but accept Jesus is not found anywhere in the text, but rather we are commanded to repent and receive Him and His engrafted word that is able save our souls. Its God that "accepts us" through reconciliation after repentance..willfull disobedience is what places one back under the condemnation of the law..
 
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
1,212
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You are correct - the Mosaic Covenant and its outworking - Mosaic Law has not been annulled.

However, Jesus Christ fulfilled the righteous requirements of that Covenant, that Law, for us on the cross.
If you accept this then the requirements of the Mosaic Covenant are not binding on you.
If one rejects Jesus Christ and what He achieved on the cross then, the consequences of the Law are upon you.

Paul states very clearly in Galatians 3:24-25:

24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.Gal 3:24-25

Christians are not bound under the Law, the Mosaic Covenant has been fulfilled in Christ Jesus.

Paul never describes the Mosaic Law as evil or wrong in any - but he does put it into context:

7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.”[a] 8 But sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire. For apart from the law sin was dead. 9 I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died. 10 And the commandment, which was to bring life, I found to bring death. 11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it killed me. 12 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good. Rom 7:7:-12

Carefully read the whole passage - Paul is stating that all the law can do is bring death.
But something has changed through the advent of Jesus Christ and His sacrifice on the cross:

21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all[h] who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law. 29 Or is He the God of the Jews only? Is He not also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also, 30 since there is one God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith. 31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law. Rom 3:21-31

Read Romans 3:21-31 carefully.
If one is Christian one is believing that one is justified (a precise legal term meaning not guilty) by grace through faith that Jesus Christ was indeed a propitiation (a payment in full) for our sins.

Not only is righteous requirement of the Law fulfilled but a new Covenant is birthed, one that Paul refers to here as the "
law of faith." Rom 3:27. In other words it is not the law of Moses that justifies (it can only condemn), but the law of faith - salvation by grace through faith in the sufficiency of the blood sacrifice made by Christ Jesus.

So the question remains:
Does one place oneself under the Mosaic Covenant - and receive condemnation and death under its legal statutes; OR
Does one place one's faith in Jesus Christ and receive forgiveness and justification for sins and thus salvation by grace through faith?
I agree with all that. I'm just saying that the "new covenant", salvation by grace, was given by God to Abraham and this is the same covenant we are under. The new covenant didn't start with the death and resurrection of Christ, it started when God gave the covenant to Abraham and it was CONFIRMED when Christ came.
 
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willybob

Guest
The NIV and many other of the new-age bibles in Matt. 8-2, 9-18,15-25,26, 20-20, and Mark 5-6 cleverly makes subtle changes and omits worship to Jesus, which undermines and diminishes His Deity. For we know for certain that only God is worthy of worship, and Jesus IS God. Worshiping Jesus was omitted 6 times in these new texts.
 
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willybob

Guest
Eph. 3-9
KJB and Tyndale
God who created all things by Jesus Christ

the NIV omits Jesus Christ thus again undermining His Deity and creative hands
God who created all things

Like wise do the others omi this importan fact of His Diety
NLV
I was chosen to explain to everyone this mysterious plan that God, the Creator of all things, had kept secret from the beginning.

ESV
and to bring to light for everyone what is the plan of the mystery hidden for ages in God, who created all things,


BSB
and to illuminate for everyone the stewardship of this mystery, which for ages past was hidden in God, who created all things.

BLB
and to enlighten all what is the administration of the mystery having been hidden from the ages in God, the One having created all things,

NASB
and to bring to light what is the administration of the mystery which for ages has been hidden in God who created all things;

ISV
and help everyone see how this secret that has been at work was hidden for ages by God, who created all things.

NET Bible
and to enlighten everyone about God's secret plan--a secret that has been hidden for ages in God who has created all things.

New Heart English Bible
and to bring to light for all what is the administration of the mystery which for ages has been hidden in God, who created all things;

James Strong’s ASV
and to make all men see what is the dispensation of the mystery which for ages hath been hid in God who created all things;

Douay-Rheims Catholic Bible
And to enlighten all men, that they may see what is the dispensation of the mystery which hath been hidden from eternity in God, who created all things:

Darby Bible Translation
and to enlighten all [with the knowledge of] what is the administration of the mystery hidden throughout the ages in God, who has created all things,

ERV
and to make all men see what is the dispensation of the mystery which from all ages hath been hid in God who created all things;

Again pre 1880 Noah Webster’s and Young’s gets it right
and to cause all to see what is the fellowship of the secret that hath been hid from the ages in God, who the all things did create by Jesus Christ,
 

graceNpeace

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2016
2,180
107
63
I agree with all that. I'm just saying that the "new covenant", salvation by grace, was given by God to Abraham and this is the same covenant we are under. The new covenant didn't start with the death and resurrection of Christ, it started when God gave the covenant to Abraham and it was CONFIRMED when Christ came.
I did misread your post - completely!
My bad!

The Covenant that God made with Abraham is not the same as the New Covenant forged with the blood of Christ Jesus otherwise there would have been no need for Jesus to die on the cross.

I agree that the Abrahamic Covenant was based on grace, and so, for that matter, was the Covenant made with Noah, but neither of them has the application that the New Covenant does.
All the Covenants of the OT where merely, a type, or a shadow, for what was to come!
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
24,782
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You seem to not want to examine the truth,,and also I ask, why do the perversions always compare themselves to the KJB? why not compare themselves to the NIV or whatever?..I am not KJB only, but rather only the 5400 received text from Antioch, "aka" the Bensentine text, or Majority text, the TR. Oh, and you singled yourself out with your wise response, not me..You really are clueless concerning this matter, yet still insist on making lame unqualified opinions..
Personal insults again? Go and learn what an ad hominem argument is.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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I did misread your post - completely!
My bad!

The Covenant that God made with Abraham is not the same as the New Covenant forged with the blood of Christ Jesus otherwise there would have been no need for Jesus to die on the cross.

I agree that the Abrahamic Covenant was based on grace, and so, for that matter, was the Covenant made with Noah, but neither of them has the application that the New Covenant does.
All the Covenants of the OT where merely, a type, or a shadow, for what was to come!
I agree that the covenants up until Abraham's were shadows, but they were shadows of Abraham's covenant. The Abrahamic covenant was not a "new" covenant to the spritirual children of Abraham, it was a new covenant to the flesh children of Israel. The spiritual children of Abraham have ALWAYS been under the Abrahamic covenant aka the new covenant.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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The discussion about Christ in the church in the wilderness has kind of passed now but I did want to mention a couple of very cool points about that story.

Out of all the children of Israel that wondered around in the wilderness for 40 years, only 2 of those orginals were allowed to enter the promise land, Joshua and Caleb and they were allowed because they had ANOTHER Spirit with them. In addition to Joshua and Caleb, ALL of the children of the originals were allowed to enter.

What I want to do is draw your attention to the SYMBOLOGY of the number 2 connected to the ones who entered. Joshua and Caleb (2 people) entered and all the 2nd born entered... this is the gospel hidden in the OT.

The number 2 represents the spirit of Christ or the Word of God... Chirst comes 2 times, there are 2 testaments in the bible, there are 2 witnesses, we have 2 births, cloven (2) tongues at Pentecost.
 

J7

Banned
Apr 2, 2017
1,915
13
0
Abraham was promised that he would be 'a people, and a congregation of people'.

The people are obviously the Tribes Of Israel, the congregation is obviously the Church.

So if Paul mentions the congregation in the wilderness, he means the Church.

The feasts mirror the Church

Passover - Church called out
Pentecost - Church with Holy Spirit
Tabernacles - Church without divisions and denominations
 

graceNpeace

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2016
2,180
107
63
I agree that the covenants up until Abraham's were shadows, but they were shadows of Abraham's covenant. The Abrahamic covenant was not a "new" covenant to the spritirual children of Abraham, it was a new covenant to the flesh children of Israel. The spiritual children of Abraham have ALWAYS been under the Abrahamic covenant aka the new covenant.
I think you stretching the point.
However, I will do some research before commenting more on this issue rather than muddy the waters by making an inaccurate statement.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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I think you stretching the point.
However, I will do some research before commenting more on this issue rather than muddy the waters by making an inaccurate statement.
Please do so and let me know if I'm wrong... the last thing I want to do is misrperesent the bible. :)
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
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The NIV and many other of the new-age bibles in Matt. 8-2, 9-18,15-25,26, 20-20, and Mark 5-6 cleverly makes subtle changes and omits worship to Jesus, which undermines and diminishes His Deity. For we know for certain that only God is worthy of worship, and Jesus IS God. Worshiping Jesus was omitted 6 times in these new texts.
Or it was 6 times added in the KJV, you know.

Thats what the textual criticism is about. To find out what was added or omitted.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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Or it was 6 times added in the KJV, you know.

Thats what the textual criticism is about. To find out what was added or omitted.
But we don't have the originals, we don't know what the originals had in them... Older in no way means more accurate.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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Why older in no way means more accurate?
If false gospels are being written at the same time as true gospels does that mean both are equally accurate? Just because a false gospel writing survived longer than a true gospel writing doesn't mean the false gospel writing is right just because it's older.
 

J7

Banned
Apr 2, 2017
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I think KJV is also right to say that The New Covenant is an expression of the Abrahamic Covenant
 
Nov 23, 2013
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There were false gospels in Paul's time.

Galatians 1:6-7 KJV
I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
[7] Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.