An Introduction to the Doctrines of Grace: Limited Atonement

SovereignGrace · Jun 17, 2017

Here's the problem, ppl in their fallen, unregenerate condition, hate God. They don't want anything to do with Him.

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written: “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.”Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.[1 Cor. 1:18-21]

He we see the two classes of ppl, the lost and saved. Those who are lost are in the flesh(Romans 8:8 says those in the flesh can't please God) and consider the message of the cross as rubbish. They don't want Him. Those who are saved see the power displayed in the message of the cross and how the Christ hung, bled, died and was buried and three days later was resurrected. They see that the same power that raised the Christ from the grave, the same power that it took to make the earth and all that we see around us was the same power that saved them.

For those who are lost, God has to overcome their sin darkened and hard as a stone heart before they will love Him. It says in Ezekiel 11:19 He would give them an undivided heart and a new spirit, and in Ezekiel 36:26 He said He would give them a new heart and new spirit. There has to be a supernatural heart transplant first, before they will love Him.

Then we can read Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God.[1 John 4:7] As it plainly states, those who love God have been born of Him. It takes God giving them the new birth FIRST before they will love Him.

Now, let us carry these thoughts over to a great two verse passage...

And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.[Romans 8:28-30]

Here we see that God works for the good of those who love Him. Now, who are those who love Him? 1 John 4:7 says it is those who are born of God who love Him. And those who love Him have been, FIRST, born of Him via regeneration, and then we see how all that Romans 8:28-30 works itself out. God foreknew, when did God foreknew them, from before the creation of the world.[Ephesians 1:4] Those whom He foreknows(He foreknows ppl, not their actions), He predestined, called, justified and also glorified.

SovereignGrace · Jun 17, 2017

seed_time_harvest said:

But there is never a time when there is no law. Ppl have it inscribed upon their hearts.

Adam placed all of mankind at variance with God when he sinned.

SovereignGrace · Jun 17, 2017

serpentdove said:

We don't say the Calvinists are the only ones who are the elect, but the non-Calvinists sure lob the 'lost bombs' our way.

SovereignGrace · Jun 17, 2017

serpentdove said:

Agreed.

Agreed. Also Romans 9:13.

Agreed. Seeing that repentance is a gift of God, He enables those who repent to repent.

Laish · Jun 17, 2017

SovereignGrace said:

Wow that sounds Reformed,or shhhhhhh Calvinist .
Blessings
Bill

Grandpa · Jun 18, 2017

serpentdove said:

It does make sense that at least some of the Saved know how and why they were saved.

Johnny_B · Jun 18, 2017

Re: "For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order t

Calmador said:

Pointing to mystery and pointing to your inability to understand is a cop out.

God does show himself in scripture to be a judge that judges based off proportion, based off context, based off intention, based off how much someone can bare. You seemly pretend that God does not judge this way, but scripture shows that he does take different factors into account. Based off His judgement, God would not judge a man based off something he could not do. If man can't do right without God, then man couldn't do it and man is not to blame for just doing what he was born into doing.

God does not judge the way you think he judges. Scripture explicitly shows how he judges. God judges a man for something he could have done, for something that God enabled man to potentially do.

God is also not divided in himself... he does not work against himself. Satan works against God. Man can work against God. Angels work against God. God only intend, commands,does what's right, and uses the evil actions of others to do good, but he does not influence or causes evil. Stop implying God encourages/influences or worse, causes evil.

Post the Scriptures, your words are just that words that mean nothing, so please post the Scripture for your belief.

serpentdove · Jun 18, 2017

SovereignGrace said:

It is. His offer is available to all

not just a special few. Those who appropriate the gift live. Acts 11:18

serpentdove · Jun 18, 2017

SovereignGrace said:

If you want to be elect be elect. This isn't brain surgery. Jn 3:16

preacher4truth · Jun 18, 2017

SovereignGrace said:

Yep, and it is utter ignorance and slanderous to call the elect "elite". Actually, it's juvenile as well.

The other thing is these same people will claim Romans 8:28-39 for themselves. Um, they better think that one through because it is to a certain "group" of people and to none other.

But nonetheless that behavior reminds me of the phrase "blind in one eye, can't see out the other."

Then there is this: how elitist it is to say they elected ("chose" by definition) themselves and came to God out of their genuine true love for Him. Heavens sake, that isn't just "elitist," it's arrogant and unbiblical.

Here is an "elitist" passage:

For consider your calling, brothers: not many of you were wise according to worldly standards, not many were powerful, not many were of noble birth. But God chose ("elected") what is foolish in the world to shame the wise;

God chose ("elected") what is weak in the world to shame the strong; God chose ("elected") what is low and despised in the world, even things that are not, to bring to nothing things that are, so that no human being might boast in the presence of God.

And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption, so that, as it is written, "Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord."
-- 1 Corinthians 1:26-31

We boast in what the Lord has done according to and by instruction of the above passage. We show that it is God who chose, ("elected") the passages says this so there will be no boasting (except in the fact that God chose) and the people who don't believe the Bible here, deride it, and deride election call us "elitist?" What a twisted tale they tell in the exact opposite of Scripture that teaches that being elect is to God's glory, not ours.

So, in other words, to say they have chosen, to mock the fact of Him electing is to be boasting.

In themselves.

That is what is "elitist."

SovereignGrace · Jun 18, 2017

serpentdove said:

It is not of him who wills or runs but of God who shows mercy.[Romans 9:16] Those who received Him were born[past tense, already done by God] of God.[John 1:13] Those who love God are born of Him.[1 John 4:7] Ppl can not make themselves elect, so this 'if you want to be elect, be elect,' is unbiblical.

serpentdove · Jun 18, 2017

SovereignGrace said:

Then he only loves you, Calvinist not the whole world as he said (Jn 3:16). He's willing for everyone to die but you (2 Pe 3:9) because you're so lovely (Ro 3:12).

SovereignGrace · Jun 18, 2017

serpentdove said:

Gross misapplication of 2 Peter 3:9. Both sides believe everyone saved is elect. The Bible is replete with election. We just believe God elects, ye blokes believe you elect yourselves.

serpentdove · Jun 18, 2017

SovereignGrace said:

Marriage is figurative of God’s union with Israel (Is. 54:5) and Christ’s union with His Church (Eph. 5:23–32). He has chosen us. We have chosen him.

My former pastor used to ask a man, "Did you choose your wife or did your wife choose you?" The answer didn't much matter. Each chose one another.

MattforJesus · Jun 18, 2017

God chose us we did not choose Him,for without God being the one to choose us,we can choose Him all day but we would not have salvation.

And that is because it is God's kingdom.

But the Bible says that God wants all people to repent,acknowledge the truth,and be saved,and is the Savior of all men,and the Spirit and bride,say,Come,and anybody that wants the salvation can have it.

And that is beacuse God's kingdom is based on love,so we have a choice in our salvation,and God is not evil that He would condemn people that had no choice regarding their destination.

To say God chooses who will be saved,and not saved,in the beginning,without their input,would be saying God's kingdom is not love,and He is evil,which I know they do not intentionally do that.

God had the plan to give mankind salvation,before He laid down the foundation of the world,so it is the same as those that choose this salvation has salvation in the beginning,like the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world,and the prophets blood shed from the foundation of the world,even though they were future events,for God calls things that have not happened yet,as though they already happened,for if it is a plan of God to happen in the future it will surely come to pass with no hindrances.

Many are called but few are chosen,and not many noble,not many wise after the flesh,and not many mighty,are called.

God does the calling and choosing on earth dependant on the person's heart condition,and if their heart condition and attitude is right,God will call them,and if they continue on and obtain the truth,God will choose them,which many are called,but some do not get chosen.

No person says Jesus is Lord but by the Holy Ghost.

No person comes to the Son unless it is given them by the Father.

A person that God calls He will work with them to get them to the truth,but they are the one that has to accept,and push past the door,to get chosen.

This pushing past the door means understanding the proper perspective of the Christian faith,which this is the seal,those that name the name of Christ must depart from iniquity,which some have a form of godliness,but deny the power thereof,ever learning,and never able to come to the truth,and are lovers pf pleasures more than lovers of God.

Many are called but few are chosen,and many people will say,I have been chosen in the beginning,I am part of the elect,and I cannot fall from grace,I am sealed unto the day of redemption,all the while their lifestyle does not reflect one that is departing from iniquity,for they have worldliness about them,love material things,and money for personal use other than their needs,not caring about the poor and needy like they should,and sin in their life that they intentionally do.

serpentdove · Jun 18, 2017

MattforJesus said:

Jer 29:13

"They can't find Jesus for the same reason that a thief can't find a police officer." ~ Adrian Rogers Jn 7:17

preacher4truth · Jun 18, 2017

SovereignGrace said:

They did it themselves, they're "elitists"...

God elected all His so none would boast according to Scripture, 1 Corinthians 1:26-31, and they blast those who glory in what God has wrought.

Not much thinking going on among those who oppose and ridicule God's Sovereign electing grace.

SovereignGrace · Jun 18, 2017

serpentdove said:

If you read how marriages went on back in the OT days, it is way different than how we westerners do it. The prospective groom would go to the father and the father would then make out a contract, and once that contract was fulfilled, the father's daughter became the prospective groom's bride. The contract for the bride was made betwixt the bride's father and the prospective groom. The bride had no part in the deal, only to go when the father told her to.

So, the bride went as she was told. We go as we are told. Its the same principle.

graceNpeace · Jun 18, 2017

SovereignGrace said:

This is another excellent example of how important it is to understand the the culture and language conventions of the time when trying to interpret the Word of God.
Merely trying to extrapolate current culture or the use of words back to biblical times is just an invitation to confusion and misunderstanding.

First rule of hermeneutics: try to understand what is written the way the original AUTHOR intended it to be understood!

SovereignGrace · Jun 18, 2017

graceNpeace said:

Exactly, Look at Jacob and Rachel. He worked for her for 7 years, and since Leah was older, Laban sent her to him to be his wife. Then after he fulfilled Leah's week, Laban gave Rachel to Jacob.

We were given to the Christ in the same way Rachel and Leah were given to Jacob. Same principle.

An Introduction to the Doctrines of Grace: Limited Atonement

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