Benefits of Speaking, Praying, and Singing in Tongues
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it is not my job to convince you .
just know that the context of 1cor and the" Gifts of the Holy Spirit start in chapter 12 and in at verse 40 in chapter 14
the last two verses state :
:39 [FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif]Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and [/FONT]forbid not to speak with tongues. [FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif] that may not be Paul encouraging to speak in tongues but it is the Holy Spirit .
;40 [/FONT]Let all things be done decently and in order.
[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif] the ALL thing is the context of the gifts of the Holy Spirit.
[/FONT]
just know that the context of 1cor and the" Gifts of the Holy Spirit start in chapter 12 and in at verse 40 in chapter 14
the last two verses state :
:39 [FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif]Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and [/FONT]forbid not to speak with tongues. [FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif] that may not be Paul encouraging to speak in tongues but it is the Holy Spirit .
;40 [/FONT]Let all things be done decently and in order.
[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif] the ALL thing is the context of the gifts of the Holy Spirit.
[/FONT]
If you did not know the office of Prophet and the gift of prophesying are not the same thing in context to chapter 14:29
due to the truth of Paul teaching of the gifts of the Holy Spirit and tongues we need to read verse 28 with 29
prophets in the Greek here is = prophētēs
which the range of meaning is a lot . so the contextual meaning that best fits I think are as followed of course you do not have to agree
1. one who, moved by the Spirit of God and hence his organ or spokesman, solemnly declares to men what he has received by inspiration, especially concerning future events, and in particular such as relate to the cause and kingdom of God and to human salvation
2. of men filled with the Spirit of God, who by God's authority and command in words of weight pleads the cause of God and urges salvation of men
3. [FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif]in the religious assemblies of the Christians, they were moved by the Holy Spirit to speak, having power to instruct, comfort, encourage, rebuke, convict, and stimulate, their hearers[/FONT]
[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif] I think 3. is appropriate for the following :
1. Paul is writing to a Christian church
2. he has already outlined the gifts of the Holy Spirit for the Body of Christ in chapter 12
3. he has also given the benefits to the body of the gifts of the Holy Spirit Comfort , and edification.
those used in this gift are not Prophets in the same likeness as Old testament Prophets that is not the context of this verse in 29.
but because the action was prophesying which is :
[/FONT]1.to break forth under sudden impulse in lofty discourse or praise of the divine counsels
2. to prophesy
3. under like prompting, to teach, refute, reprove, admonish, comfort others
I like the break forth in number 1
so the term given Prophets is not the office of but one who is speaking in this context
1.one who, moved by the Spirit of God and hence his organ or spokesman, solemnly declares to men what he has received by inspiration, especially concerning future events, and in particular such as relate to the cause and kingdom of God and to human salvation
[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif] the rest of us are to judge if it be of God . no different that when your pastor speaks if you have one. [/FONT]
due to the truth of Paul teaching of the gifts of the Holy Spirit and tongues we need to read verse 28 with 29
prophets in the Greek here is = prophētēs
which the range of meaning is a lot . so the contextual meaning that best fits I think are as followed of course you do not have to agree
1. one who, moved by the Spirit of God and hence his organ or spokesman, solemnly declares to men what he has received by inspiration, especially concerning future events, and in particular such as relate to the cause and kingdom of God and to human salvation
2. of men filled with the Spirit of God, who by God's authority and command in words of weight pleads the cause of God and urges salvation of men
3. [FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif]in the religious assemblies of the Christians, they were moved by the Holy Spirit to speak, having power to instruct, comfort, encourage, rebuke, convict, and stimulate, their hearers[/FONT]
[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif] I think 3. is appropriate for the following :
1. Paul is writing to a Christian church
2. he has already outlined the gifts of the Holy Spirit for the Body of Christ in chapter 12
3. he has also given the benefits to the body of the gifts of the Holy Spirit Comfort , and edification.
those used in this gift are not Prophets in the same likeness as Old testament Prophets that is not the context of this verse in 29.
but because the action was prophesying which is :
[/FONT]1.to break forth under sudden impulse in lofty discourse or praise of the divine counsels
2. to prophesy
3. under like prompting, to teach, refute, reprove, admonish, comfort others
I like the break forth in number 1
so the term given Prophets is not the office of but one who is speaking in this context
1.one who, moved by the Spirit of God and hence his organ or spokesman, solemnly declares to men what he has received by inspiration, especially concerning future events, and in particular such as relate to the cause and kingdom of God and to human salvation
[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif] the rest of us are to judge if it be of God . no different that when your pastor speaks if you have one. [/FONT]
Its is not the reason that I dont like it. What I am wondering is how it is teaches from pentecostals and charismatics to receive the gift of speaking in tongues.
According the Text in 1. COR every Christian becomes a gift from the Holy Spirit when he is born again.
But from the gift of speaking in tongues it is taught that you becomes it as sign for your 2nd baptism. This was what the first pentecostals taught. Some years later this movement Splitter and a part of them taught (oness) that without speaking in tongues the believer is nothe a Christian. This teachIngs with the second baptism we do not find in the Bible and also not in the churchhistory till to the year 1900. That's makes it really difficult for me to believe it! And this little gift becomes a such important Status that somebody called others not be a real Christian if he has noto this gift! Where this is written in the epistles of Paul ore in the whole NT?
According the Text in 1. COR every Christian becomes a gift from the Holy Spirit when he is born again.
But from the gift of speaking in tongues it is taught that you becomes it as sign for your 2nd baptism. This was what the first pentecostals taught. Some years later this movement Splitter and a part of them taught (oness) that without speaking in tongues the believer is nothe a Christian. This teachIngs with the second baptism we do not find in the Bible and also not in the churchhistory till to the year 1900. That's makes it really difficult for me to believe it! And this little gift becomes a such important Status that somebody called others not be a real Christian if he has noto this gift! Where this is written in the epistles of Paul ore in the whole NT?
What in the world does it take to convince people that a manifestation is not a gift and a gift is not a manifestation.
12:5-6 the subject is "distributions" - v4. distribution (diversities) of gifts given to individuals which includes salvation; v5. differences of administration - the gift ministries spoken about in Ephesians 4:7-13 for service; and v6. speaks of diversities of energies and energizings - pointing even though they can be different, it is the same God who energizes them.
Verse 7 changes the subject from gifts, ministries, and energizings, to the "manifestation" (or bringing into evidence) of the holy Spirit. Now Paul is speaking of something that "each one" has; the manifestation of the Spirit. Every born again believer receives the gift of holy Spirit and has the ability to "manifest" that gift nine ways.
12:5-6 the subject is "distributions" - v4. distribution (diversities) of gifts given to individuals which includes salvation; v5. differences of administration - the gift ministries spoken about in Ephesians 4:7-13 for service; and v6. speaks of diversities of energies and energizings - pointing even though they can be different, it is the same God who energizes them.
Verse 7 changes the subject from gifts, ministries, and energizings, to the "manifestation" (or bringing into evidence) of the holy Spirit. Now Paul is speaking of something that "each one" has; the manifestation of the Spirit. Every born again believer receives the gift of holy Spirit and has the ability to "manifest" that gift nine ways.
that is a far question . again I cannot tell you why some in certain denominations say thing that are not scriptural.
what I can see in scripture is that those who are saved the Holy Spirit has distributed gifts for the Body of Christ for the betterment of all as 1 cor chapter 12 says. those who elites the gift have missed the reason for the gift . that is why Paul addressed the issue of immaturity and foolishness. NOW the ONESS doctrine is error period . and be it known in the Pentecostal theological doctrine which is in black and white NO where says that if you did not know. The teaching if very conservative which I was shocked to see
what I can see in scripture is that those who are saved the Holy Spirit has distributed gifts for the Body of Christ for the betterment of all as 1 cor chapter 12 says. those who elites the gift have missed the reason for the gift . that is why Paul addressed the issue of immaturity and foolishness. NOW the ONESS doctrine is error period . and be it known in the Pentecostal theological doctrine which is in black and white NO where says that if you did not know. The teaching if very conservative which I was shocked to see
DJ2
and that is the problem is it not sir?
I can tell you I have and have told individuals to be quite . of course my experience is not authoritative meaning i have only my word to tell you. it is also in the church discipleship we are to be corrected remember this when Paul wrote the letters to the Corinthian' s they were Christians and he was correcting them so it would not be an issue as it had come to be . I can tell you in my 30 + years of ministry I have made mistakes and was corrected by elders and made me more effective for Christ imho . we have to correct in love. BUt we have to correct. that is not always the case .
and that is the problem is it not sir?
I can tell you I have and have told individuals to be quite . of course my experience is not authoritative meaning i have only my word to tell you. it is also in the church discipleship we are to be corrected remember this when Paul wrote the letters to the Corinthian' s they were Christians and he was correcting them so it would not be an issue as it had come to be . I can tell you in my 30 + years of ministry I have made mistakes and was corrected by elders and made me more effective for Christ imho . we have to correct in love. BUt we have to correct. that is not always the case .
CHAPTER 12
Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant. 2Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led. 3Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
4Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. 6And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. 7But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. 8For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 9To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 10To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: 11But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.Many Members, One Body12For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. 13For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.14For the body is not one member, but many. 15If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? 16And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? 17If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling? 18But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him. 19And if they were all one member, where were the body? 20But now are they many members, yet but one body. 21And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you. 22Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary: 23And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness. 24For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked: 25That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another. 26And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.27Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.Spiritual Gifts28And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. 29Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? 30Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?31But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.
If someone would not mind, could you please expound chapter 12 keeping in mind Paul's work as an overseer of the BODY in his care.
With that said, please explain what Paul is wanting these "members" to see prior to proeceeding on to Chapter 13, which talks specifically about LOVE dictating all our actionss, and then Chapter 14 which speaks to the Church at Corinth with regards ONLY to the gift of tongues...with and without an interpreter...and the importance of one who speaks in a tongue to be able to "prophecy" (that is, able to explain what he/she is saying).
I would like to understand how one comes away believing Paul is encouraging the body to speak in tongues when there isn't even one person to interpret what is being said.
Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant. 2Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led. 3Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
4Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. 6And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. 7But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. 8For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 9To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 10To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: 11But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.Many Members, One Body12For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. 13For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.14For the body is not one member, but many. 15If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? 16And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? 17If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling? 18But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him. 19And if they were all one member, where were the body? 20But now are they many members, yet but one body. 21And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you. 22Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary: 23And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness. 24For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked: 25That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another. 26And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.27Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.Spiritual Gifts28And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. 29Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? 30Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?31But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.
If someone would not mind, could you please expound chapter 12 keeping in mind Paul's work as an overseer of the BODY in his care.
With that said, please explain what Paul is wanting these "members" to see prior to proeceeding on to Chapter 13, which talks specifically about LOVE dictating all our actionss, and then Chapter 14 which speaks to the Church at Corinth with regards ONLY to the gift of tongues...with and without an interpreter...and the importance of one who speaks in a tongue to be able to "prophecy" (that is, able to explain what he/she is saying).
I would like to understand how one comes away believing Paul is encouraging the body to speak in tongues when there isn't even one person to interpret what is being said.
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CHAPTER 13
Love1Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. 2And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. 3And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.4Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, 5Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; 6Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; 7Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.8Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. 9For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. 11When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.13And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.
Love1Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. 2And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. 3And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.4Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, 5Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; 6Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; 7Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.8Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. 9For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. 11When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.13And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.
If you did not know the office of Prophet and the gift of prophesying are not the same thing in context to chapter 14:29
due to the truth of Paul teaching of the gifts of the Holy Spirit and tongues we need to read verse 28 with 29
prophets in the Greek here is = prophētēs
which the range of meaning is a lot . so the contextual meaning that best fits I think are as followed of course you do not have to agree
1. one who, moved by the Spirit of God and hence his organ or spokesman, solemnly declares to men what he has received by inspiration, especially concerning future events, and in particular such as relate to the cause and kingdom of God and to human salvation
2. of men filled with the Spirit of God, who by God's authority and command in words of weight pleads the cause of God and urges salvation of men
3. in the religious assemblies of the Christians, they were moved by the Holy Spirit to speak, having power to instruct, comfort, encourage, rebuke, convict, and stimulate, their hearers
I think 3. is appropriate for the following :
1. Paul is writing to a Christian church
2. he has already outlined the gifts of the Holy Spirit for the Body of Christ in chapter 12
3. he has also given the benefits to the body of the gifts of the Holy Spirit Comfort , and edification.
those used in this gift are not Prophets in the same likeness as Old testament Prophets that is not the context of this verse in 29.
but because the action was prophesying which is :
1.to break forth under sudden impulse in lofty discourse or praise of the divine counsels
2. to prophesy
3. under like prompting, to teach, refute, reprove, admonish, comfort others
I like the break forth in number 1
so the term given Prophets is not the office of but one who is speaking in this context
1.one who, moved by the Spirit of God and hence his organ or spokesman, solemnly declares to men what he has received by inspiration, especially concerning future events, and in particular such as relate to the cause and kingdom of God and to human salvation
the rest of us are to judge if it be of God . no different that when your pastor speaks if you have one.
due to the truth of Paul teaching of the gifts of the Holy Spirit and tongues we need to read verse 28 with 29
prophets in the Greek here is = prophētēs
which the range of meaning is a lot . so the contextual meaning that best fits I think are as followed of course you do not have to agree
1. one who, moved by the Spirit of God and hence his organ or spokesman, solemnly declares to men what he has received by inspiration, especially concerning future events, and in particular such as relate to the cause and kingdom of God and to human salvation
2. of men filled with the Spirit of God, who by God's authority and command in words of weight pleads the cause of God and urges salvation of men
3. in the religious assemblies of the Christians, they were moved by the Holy Spirit to speak, having power to instruct, comfort, encourage, rebuke, convict, and stimulate, their hearers
I think 3. is appropriate for the following :
1. Paul is writing to a Christian church
2. he has already outlined the gifts of the Holy Spirit for the Body of Christ in chapter 12
3. he has also given the benefits to the body of the gifts of the Holy Spirit Comfort , and edification.
those used in this gift are not Prophets in the same likeness as Old testament Prophets that is not the context of this verse in 29.
but because the action was prophesying which is :
1.to break forth under sudden impulse in lofty discourse or praise of the divine counsels
2. to prophesy
3. under like prompting, to teach, refute, reprove, admonish, comfort others
I like the break forth in number 1
so the term given Prophets is not the office of but one who is speaking in this context
1.one who, moved by the Spirit of God and hence his organ or spokesman, solemnly declares to men what he has received by inspiration, especially concerning future events, and in particular such as relate to the cause and kingdom of God and to human salvation
the rest of us are to judge if it be of God . no different that when your pastor speaks if you have one.
This is another situation where you have taken great liberty with the lexicon. Prophecy today as I see it through the scripture is one of speaking forth the delivered word of God the bible. There is no new revelation from God. Revelation closed with John on Patmos.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
well again I think you have chosen not to see the full context of the three chapters 1n 12, 13, and 14.
1Cor 12 Paul says in verse 1 "Now concerning spiritual gifts[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif], brethren, I would not have you ignorant."[/FONT]
[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif] regardless of the pagan up bringing they were not pagan they were Christians . Paul could have addressed pagan practices which he did in verse 2 "[/FONT][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif]Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led."[/FONT]
[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif] this is not the case because Paul says " were " not "are". then he goes on to explain some very important discernment prior to speaking on the "Gifts of the Holy Spirit which is the subject in 1cor chapter 12,13, and 14 .
Pauls says :
verse 3> [/FONT]Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif] This sets the precedence for everything else person speaking in tongues says Jesus is not God Bingo not of the Holy Spirit not a gift of God . needs to be quite and be corrected.
after that Paul says : "[/FONT][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif]Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit." he is not talking about pagans or non believers [/FONT]
[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif]he is speaking to Christians.
your question "[/FONT]I would like to understand how one comes away believing Paul is encouraging the body to speak in tongues when there isn't even one person to interpret what is being said."
tongues is a gift recorded with the other gifts in chapter 12. no where in 12 does Paul say not to speak in tongue .
Pauls says very clearly 14:4 He that speaketh in an unknown[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif] [/FONT]tongue edifieth himself;[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif] but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.[/FONT]
[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif]in context to an interpretation Paul instructs verse :13 [/FONT]Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.
:27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
;28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.
[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif] so your answer if there is no interpretation Paul said they are to be silent. and if they do speak they are to pray that they may interpret and that will handle the issue of the concern of no interpretation. that is what the verses say.[/FONT]
1Cor 12 Paul says in verse 1 "Now concerning spiritual gifts[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif], brethren, I would not have you ignorant."[/FONT]
[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif] regardless of the pagan up bringing they were not pagan they were Christians . Paul could have addressed pagan practices which he did in verse 2 "[/FONT][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif]Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led."[/FONT]
[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif] this is not the case because Paul says " were " not "are". then he goes on to explain some very important discernment prior to speaking on the "Gifts of the Holy Spirit which is the subject in 1cor chapter 12,13, and 14 .
Pauls says :
verse 3> [/FONT]Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif] This sets the precedence for everything else person speaking in tongues says Jesus is not God Bingo not of the Holy Spirit not a gift of God . needs to be quite and be corrected.
after that Paul says : "[/FONT][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif]Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit." he is not talking about pagans or non believers [/FONT]
[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif]he is speaking to Christians.
your question "[/FONT]I would like to understand how one comes away believing Paul is encouraging the body to speak in tongues when there isn't even one person to interpret what is being said."
tongues is a gift recorded with the other gifts in chapter 12. no where in 12 does Paul say not to speak in tongue .
Pauls says very clearly 14:4 He that speaketh in an unknown[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif] [/FONT]tongue edifieth himself;[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif] but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.[/FONT]
[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif]in context to an interpretation Paul instructs verse :13 [/FONT]Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.
:27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
;28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.
[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif] so your answer if there is no interpretation Paul said they are to be silent. and if they do speak they are to pray that they may interpret and that will handle the issue of the concern of no interpretation. that is what the verses say.[/FONT]
CHAPTER 14
Prophecy and Tongues
1Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy. 2For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. 3But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort. 4He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
5I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
(Pau's main purpose and understanding in all that he does by the gifts of THE HOLY SPIRIT was to build up CHRIST's BODY so that unbelievers might hear the GOOD NEWS and be converted. He was not sitting around in the church building flaunting his gifts before other believers. He understood the work and the purpose of his call was that entrusted with THE GOSPEL he had entered into GOD's labor to call all men to the TRUTH...this is why he would rather one prophecy than speak in an unknown tongue because to him, the one who prophecies edifies the body...and prophecy is for unbelievers while speaking in tongues (unless one is able to interpret) is a sign amongst believers. In this above verse he mentions I would that all would speak in tongues but rather that you prophecy...the only exception would be if the one who speaks in tongues is also able to interpret what he/she is saying...so that all in the body are edified)...
6Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?
(If I come to you speaking in an unknown tongues, how will I help/profit/edify/encourag anyone if I don't couple that unknown tongue with a revelation, knowledge, prophecy, or doctrine so that one will understand what is being said?)
7And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped?8For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?
(Even instruments are known by their distinct and different sound...they aren't just meaningless empty unrecognizable sounds.)
So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.
(So the same applies to an unknown tongue. unless you speak words that are easily understood, how will anyone know what is being said? It's just like speaking empty and lost words into the air. How do lost words edify anyone)
10There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification.
(Every voice in the world has a meaning behind what is being said).
11Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me.
If I don't recognize the voice/language/tongue, I'm a f(oreigner to him and he is a foreigner to me.)
12Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.
13Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret. 14For if I pray in an unknowntongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
(Therefore since you are so zealous for spiritual gifts seek those gifts that will edify the body. So if any speak in an unknown tongue they should pray that GOD give them the ability to interpret what they are saying. Since if I pray in an unknowable tongue, it's my spirit that is praying, but my mind is left without understanding what I am praying.)
15What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
(what then? I will pray with the spirit AND with understanding, I will sing with the spirit AND with understanding)
16Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest? 17For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.
(again, Paul puts the importance on serving the body and those without understanding. If you pray and you bless and people here this are they supposed to all chorus amen when they don't even understand what is being said?)
18I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
19Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.
20Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men. 21In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. 22Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe. 23If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that areunlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad? 24But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all: 25And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.
Orderly Worship
26How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.
27If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret. 28But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.
29Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge. 30If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace.31For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted. 32And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. 33For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
34Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commandedto be under obedience, as also saith the law. 35And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. 36What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?
37If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord. 38But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.
39Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues. 40Let all things be done decently and in order.
Paul was ever and always concerned with order in the BODY.
GOD is not the author of confusion.
There has to be propriety in the CHURCH.
People can't call out just as they wish.
Those who speak in tongues, let them speak, yes...but there has to be someone to interpret.
And as it says above if there isn't, let that man remain quiet within the CHURCH structure and have his conversation in private between him and THE LORD.
Do not forbid speaking in tongues?
Okay...but, if there isn't anyone to interpret what is being said, Paul is very clear in Chapter 14 of the first letter to the Corinthians, that speaking in tongues should not be done in a public setting within the BODY unless one can interpret what is being said.
Prophecy and Tongues
1Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy. 2For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. 3But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort. 4He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
5I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
(Pau's main purpose and understanding in all that he does by the gifts of THE HOLY SPIRIT was to build up CHRIST's BODY so that unbelievers might hear the GOOD NEWS and be converted. He was not sitting around in the church building flaunting his gifts before other believers. He understood the work and the purpose of his call was that entrusted with THE GOSPEL he had entered into GOD's labor to call all men to the TRUTH...this is why he would rather one prophecy than speak in an unknown tongue because to him, the one who prophecies edifies the body...and prophecy is for unbelievers while speaking in tongues (unless one is able to interpret) is a sign amongst believers. In this above verse he mentions I would that all would speak in tongues but rather that you prophecy...the only exception would be if the one who speaks in tongues is also able to interpret what he/she is saying...so that all in the body are edified)...
6Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?
(If I come to you speaking in an unknown tongues, how will I help/profit/edify/encourag anyone if I don't couple that unknown tongue with a revelation, knowledge, prophecy, or doctrine so that one will understand what is being said?)
7And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped?8For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?
(Even instruments are known by their distinct and different sound...they aren't just meaningless empty unrecognizable sounds.)
So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.
(So the same applies to an unknown tongue. unless you speak words that are easily understood, how will anyone know what is being said? It's just like speaking empty and lost words into the air. How do lost words edify anyone)
10There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification.
(Every voice in the world has a meaning behind what is being said).
11Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me.
If I don't recognize the voice/language/tongue, I'm a f(oreigner to him and he is a foreigner to me.)
12Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.
13Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret. 14For if I pray in an unknowntongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
(Therefore since you are so zealous for spiritual gifts seek those gifts that will edify the body. So if any speak in an unknown tongue they should pray that GOD give them the ability to interpret what they are saying. Since if I pray in an unknowable tongue, it's my spirit that is praying, but my mind is left without understanding what I am praying.)
15What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
(what then? I will pray with the spirit AND with understanding, I will sing with the spirit AND with understanding)
16Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest? 17For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.
(again, Paul puts the importance on serving the body and those without understanding. If you pray and you bless and people here this are they supposed to all chorus amen when they don't even understand what is being said?)
18I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
19Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.
20Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men. 21In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. 22Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe. 23If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that areunlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad? 24But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all: 25And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.
Orderly Worship
26How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.
27If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret. 28But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.
29Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge. 30If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace.31For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted. 32And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. 33For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
34Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commandedto be under obedience, as also saith the law. 35And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. 36What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?
37If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord. 38But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.
39Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues. 40Let all things be done decently and in order.
Paul was ever and always concerned with order in the BODY.
GOD is not the author of confusion.
There has to be propriety in the CHURCH.
People can't call out just as they wish.
Those who speak in tongues, let them speak, yes...but there has to be someone to interpret.
And as it says above if there isn't, let that man remain quiet within the CHURCH structure and have his conversation in private between him and THE LORD.
Do not forbid speaking in tongues?
Okay...but, if there isn't anyone to interpret what is being said, Paul is very clear in Chapter 14 of the first letter to the Corinthians, that speaking in tongues should not be done in a public setting within the BODY unless one can interpret what is being said.
I have posted Chapter 14 completely and have highlighted those verses that clearly say if there is no one to interpret the unknown tongue, one shouldn't (within the BODY of THE CHURCH) speak...
That is disorder and confusion within the BODY since the one speaking, if he can't interpret is speaking things that do not edify the BODY.
And the whole purpose was that these diversified gifts were for the building up and edification of THE ONE BODY made of many parts.
Not all are prophets
Not all speak in tongues
But tongues is a different gift altogether
It is a sign amongst believers.
It is not a gift that is for the edification of THE BODY because if one can't interpret what is being said, how is anyone being edified?
In that case, Paul is very clear...the conversation is private and personal edification...it is between that person and GOD and he should not speak in tongues if there isn't another person who can interpret what is being said.
vs 28 clearly states that
That is disorder and confusion within the BODY since the one speaking, if he can't interpret is speaking things that do not edify the BODY.
And the whole purpose was that these diversified gifts were for the building up and edification of THE ONE BODY made of many parts.
Not all are prophets
Not all speak in tongues
But tongues is a different gift altogether
It is a sign amongst believers.
It is not a gift that is for the edification of THE BODY because if one can't interpret what is being said, how is anyone being edified?
In that case, Paul is very clear...the conversation is private and personal edification...it is between that person and GOD and he should not speak in tongues if there isn't another person who can interpret what is being said.
vs 28 clearly states that