Who is the woman in Rev 12:5?
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Hello stillness,
In the above post you have misapplied three different scriptures.
Regarding "the church shall not pass away," first, you added the word "church" into that scripture which isn't there and second, the scripture is in reference to when the Lord returns to end the age. And prior to the Lord's return to end the age, the wrath of God must take place, which the church cannot and will not go through. Therefore, this is not speaking in regards to the church.
It is paramount in understanding that the gathering of the church vs the Lord's return to the earth to end the age, as being two separate events with different purposes. It is also paramount in understanding that there is a difference between the trials and persecution that Jesus said believers would have because of their faith in Him vs. the coming, unprecedented wrath of God. That said, the church is not appointed to suffer God's coming wrath because Jesus already experienced God's wrath on our behalf. In addition, when we received Christ we were credited with righteousness and have been reconciled to God through Christ's sacrifice.
That time period of God's wrath will be upon a Christ rejecting world and those who continue to willfully live according to the sinful nature. While the church will have previously been caught up to God.
In the above post you have misapplied three different scriptures.
Regarding "the church shall not pass away," first, you added the word "church" into that scripture which isn't there and second, the scripture is in reference to when the Lord returns to end the age. And prior to the Lord's return to end the age, the wrath of God must take place, which the church cannot and will not go through. Therefore, this is not speaking in regards to the church.
It is paramount in understanding that the gathering of the church vs the Lord's return to the earth to end the age, as being two separate events with different purposes. It is also paramount in understanding that there is a difference between the trials and persecution that Jesus said believers would have because of their faith in Him vs. the coming, unprecedented wrath of God. That said, the church is not appointed to suffer God's coming wrath because Jesus already experienced God's wrath on our behalf. In addition, when we received Christ we were credited with righteousness and have been reconciled to God through Christ's sacrifice.
That time period of God's wrath will be upon a Christ rejecting world and those who continue to willfully live according to the sinful nature. While the church will have previously been caught up to God.
First of all, the verse says that the woman gives birth to a "male child" and therefore, the child is not a "she."
The male child is a collective name representing the 144,000 who are the first fruits that come out of Israel (gives birth to) who will recognize Jesus as their Messiah. These, as the male child, will be caught up to God and His throne in the middle of the seven years, similar to how the living church is caught up when the resurrection takes place.
The male child is a collective name representing the 144,000 who are the first fruits that come out of Israel (gives birth to) who will recognize Jesus as their Messiah. These, as the male child, will be caught up to God and His throne in the middle of the seven years, similar to how the living church is caught up when the resurrection takes place.
Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
Will the 144,000 people rule all nations with a rod of iron.
Rev 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Jesus will rule all nations with a rod of iron,not the 144,000 people.
Will the 144,000 people rule all nations with a rod of iron.
Rev 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Jesus will rule all nations with a rod of iron,not the 144,000 people.
Interesting. Have not heard that view before.
But I disagree with you. I believe Jesus is the child mentioned.
Compare Rev 19 with Rev 12.
Rev 19:15: "Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He (Jesus) Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Rev 12:5: "She bore a male Child (Jesus) who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron. And her Child was caught up to God and His throne"
But I disagree with you. I believe Jesus is the child mentioned.
Compare Rev 19 with Rev 12.
Rev 19:15: "Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He (Jesus) Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Rev 12:5: "She bore a male Child (Jesus) who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron. And her Child was caught up to God and His throne"
Hello Katy-follower, as I previously posted, upon closer examination, Jesus does not fit the criteria of being the male child. For the male child is "caught up" to God's throne before the dragon can harm him. In opposition to this, Jesus was crucified, buried and resurrected. The word "harpazo" translated "caught up" is the same word used to describe the event of the living church being "caught up" at the time of the resurrection. It is also the same word used when Paul said that he was "caught up" to the third heaven. Point being that, Jesus was crucified, where the male child is caught up to God's throne. Therefore, Jesus does not fit the criteria of being the male child.
On the other hand, the 144,000 come out of Israel (gives birth to) as the first fruits to God who will acknowledge Jesus as their Messiah. In addition to this, Rev.14:4 tells us that these 144,000 will be those who did not defile themselves with woman meaning that they are all males, ergo, male child.
Jesus as the male child is the obvious, knee-jerk interpretation and the one everyone just continues to repeat.
Also, in the scripture "to rule all nations with a rod of iron" is spoke in regards to the church, the male child and Jesus.
On the other hand, the 144,000 come out of Israel (gives birth to) as the first fruits to God who will acknowledge Jesus as their Messiah. In addition to this, Rev.14:4 tells us that these 144,000 will be those who did not defile themselves with woman meaning that they are all males, ergo, male child.
Jesus as the male child is the obvious, knee-jerk interpretation and the one everyone just continues to repeat.
Also, in the scripture "to rule all nations with a rod of iron" is spoke in regards to the church, the male child and Jesus.
"The woman was given the two wings of a great eagle, so that she might fly to the place prepared for her in the wilderness, where she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time, out of the serpent’s reach. "
The problem with your claim is that, if the woman is the new Jerusalem, how could the city flee out into the wilderness to that place prepared for her by God?
The answer is, because the woman is not representing the new Jerusalem, but is representing Israel, who at the setting up of the abomination, flees out into the desert to that place prepared for her by God. Not only that, but the new Jerusalem doesn't come down on this current earth, but comes down out of heaven from God when the new heaven and earth have been created.
I believe the woman is Israel. Here is an article by David R Reagan entitled: "The Mysterious Woman" from the Lamb and Lion Ministries website - The Mysterious Woman | Lamb and Lion Ministries
So according to your idiotic reading Israel is standing on Rachel's head. Ouch.
[FONT="]9 And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.[/FONT]
[FONT="]10 And he told it to his father, and to his brethren: and his father rebuked him, and said unto him, What is this dream that thou hast dreamed? Shall I and thy mother and thy brethren indeed come to bow down ourselves to thee to the earth?[/FONT]
[FONT="]9 And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.[/FONT]
[FONT="]10 And he told it to his father, and to his brethren: and his father rebuked him, and said unto him, What is this dream that thou hast dreamed? Shall I and thy mother and thy brethren indeed come to bow down ourselves to thee to the earth?[/FONT]
If we consider the New Jerusalem of God as tthe city of the Israel of God, then the Bride, the Church, Israel, all the Body of Christ would be one in the same.......
It is so very nice when we understand the actual translation of many of the words from the Hebrew when we come to Jesus Christ, Yeshua.
Understanding what each of the following words translate to Englihs and all other languages we find that each of us is Israel, each is Hebrew, each is Judah or a Jew, and so much more.
In part this is explained by Paul when he discoursed on what constitutes atrue Jew, but no many have dained to learn what is being taught only on the surface do most accept this teaching, but it means so much more than what most understand. The understanding is so simple on all.
God bless all who are in Jesus christ......Yehua, amen.
It is so very nice when we understand the actual translation of many of the words from the Hebrew when we come to Jesus Christ, Yeshua.
Understanding what each of the following words translate to Englihs and all other languages we find that each of us is Israel, each is Hebrew, each is Judah or a Jew, and so much more.
In part this is explained by Paul when he discoursed on what constitutes atrue Jew, but no many have dained to learn what is being taught only on the surface do most accept this teaching, but it means so much more than what most understand. The understanding is so simple on all.
God bless all who are in Jesus christ......Yehua, amen.
the woman is israel, from which Jesus descended, from adam to abraham to david to Jesus. Jesus was born of israel, abrahams seed is also israel ( jacob) of jacobs line came Jesus. israel is the Woman here
revelation 12:1-6 "And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: 2And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.....
......v5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. 6And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
revelation 12:13-17 "And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child. 14And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
..... 17And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ."
revelation 17:1-And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters: 2With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication. 3So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. 4And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: 5And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. 6And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.
v16-17 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. 17For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled. 18And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.
The woman is isreal, and Judah They began clothed with Glory, gave birth to the messiah and forsook the covenant of God byu which came thier desolation and judgment. in ezekiel and zechariah you see from jeremiah jerusalem and judah being called the whores of the earth and beoing judged for the Blood of the saints, you see all the above prophecied about israel.
for instance and this is one of many examples
ezekiel 16 :1- Again the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, 2Son of man, cause Jerusalem to know her abominations,.......
.v8 "Now when I passed by thee, and looked upon thee, behold, thy time was the time of love; and I spread my skirt over thee, and covered thy nakedness: yea, I sware unto thee, and entered into a covenant with thee, saith the Lord GOD, and thou becamest mine.
9Then washed I thee with water; yea, I throughly washed away thy blood from thee, and I anointed thee with oil. 10I clothed thee also with broidered work, and shod thee with badgers' skin, and I girded thee about with fine linen, and I covered thee with silk. 11I decked thee also with ornaments, and I put bracelets upon thy hands, and a chain on thy neck. 12And I put a jewel on thy forehead, and earrings in thine ears, and a beautiful crown upon thine head. 13Thus wast thou decked with gold and silver; and thy raiment was of fine linen, and silk, and broidered work; thou didst eat fine flour, and honey, and oil: and thou wast exceeding beautiful, and thou didst prosper into a kingdom. 14And thy renown went forth among the heathen for thy beauty: for it was perfect through my comeliness, which I had put upon thee, saith the Lord GOD."
this jerusalem clothed with glory and a crown then the people turned to other gods and defiled thier relationship with God becoming a "whore, or " harlot" ...
But thou didst trust in thine own beauty, and playedst the harlot because of thy renown, and pouredst out thy fornications on every one that passed by; his it was. 16And of thy garments thou didst take, and deckedst thy high places with divers colours, and playedst the harlot thereupon: the like things shall not come, neither shall it be so. 17Thou hast also taken thy fair jewels of my gold and of my silver, which I had given thee, and madest to thyself images of men, and didst commit whoredom with them,
18And tookest thy broidered garments, and coveredst them: and thou hast set mine oil and mine incense before them.
..... Is this of thy whoredoms a small matter, 21That thou hast slain my children, and delivered them to cause them to pass through the fire for them? 22And in all thine abominations and thy whoredoms thou hast not remembered the days of thy youth, when thou wast naked and bare, and wast polluted in thy blood.....25Thou hast built thy high place at every head of the way, and hast made thy beauty to be abhorred, and hast opened thy feet to every one that passed by, and multiplied thy whoredoms.
26Thou hast also committed fornication with the Egyptians thy neighbours, great of flesh; and hast increased thy whoredoms, to provoke me to anger. 27Behold, therefore I have stretched out my hand over thee, and have diminished thine ordinary food, and delivered thee unto the will of them that hate thee, the daughters of the Philistines, which are ashamed of thy lewd way. 28Thou hast played the whore also with the Assyrians, because thou wast unsatiable; yea, thou hast played the harlot with them, and yet couldest not be satisfied.
29Thou hast moreover multiplied thy fornication in the land of Canaan unto Chaldea; and yet thou wast not satisfied herewith.30How weak is thine heart, saith the Lord GOD, seeing thou doest all these things, the work of an imperious whorish woman;.....32But as a wife that committeth adultery, which taketh strangers instead of her husband!33They give gifts to all whores: but thou givest thy gifts to all thy lovers, and hirest them, that they may come unto thee on every side for thy whoredom.
Though she began a glorious and beautiful nation and jerusalem Her mighty city clothed with Gods Glory, many dont see this but israel broke the covenant between God and themselves and because they consistantly strayed to other gods and so many abominations done before God, He called them as they were a whore and adulterous wife, a harlot, and from times of old set forth the judgements upon israel patricularly Jerusalem and samaria.
Wherefore, O harlot, hear the word of the LORD: 36Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thy filthiness was poured out, and thy nakedness discovered through thy whoredoms with thy lovers, and with all the idols of thy abominations, and by the blood of thy children, which thou didst give unto them
; 37Behold, therefore I will gather all thy lovers, with whom thou hast taken pleasure, and all them that thou hast loved, with all them that thou hast hated; I will even gather them round about against thee, and will discover thy nakedness unto them, that they may see all thy nakedness. 38And I will judge thee, as women that break wedlock and shed blood are judged; and I will give thee blood in fury and jealousy.
39And I will also give thee into their hand, and they shall throw down thine eminent place, and shall break down thy high places: they shall strip thee also of thy clothes, and shall take thy fair jewels, and leave thee naked and bare. "
you see how this judgement fits perfectly with the whore in revelation....
rev 17 v16-17 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. 17For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled. 18And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.
isreal is the Woman, then is cared for in the desert, then the dragon pursues the woman into the desert, then you see the woman a whore sitting on the Beast in the dersert. that woman is israel from the time of mans creation before jacob from even the beginnings of adams line that produced abraham, israel and eventually Jesus.
revelation 12:1-6 "And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: 2And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.....
......v5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. 6And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
revelation 12:13-17 "And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child. 14And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
..... 17And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ."
revelation 17:1-And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters: 2With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication. 3So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. 4And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: 5And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. 6And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.
v16-17 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. 17For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled. 18And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.
The woman is isreal, and Judah They began clothed with Glory, gave birth to the messiah and forsook the covenant of God byu which came thier desolation and judgment. in ezekiel and zechariah you see from jeremiah jerusalem and judah being called the whores of the earth and beoing judged for the Blood of the saints, you see all the above prophecied about israel.
for instance and this is one of many examples
ezekiel 16 :1- Again the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, 2Son of man, cause Jerusalem to know her abominations,.......
.v8 "Now when I passed by thee, and looked upon thee, behold, thy time was the time of love; and I spread my skirt over thee, and covered thy nakedness: yea, I sware unto thee, and entered into a covenant with thee, saith the Lord GOD, and thou becamest mine.
9Then washed I thee with water; yea, I throughly washed away thy blood from thee, and I anointed thee with oil. 10I clothed thee also with broidered work, and shod thee with badgers' skin, and I girded thee about with fine linen, and I covered thee with silk. 11I decked thee also with ornaments, and I put bracelets upon thy hands, and a chain on thy neck. 12And I put a jewel on thy forehead, and earrings in thine ears, and a beautiful crown upon thine head. 13Thus wast thou decked with gold and silver; and thy raiment was of fine linen, and silk, and broidered work; thou didst eat fine flour, and honey, and oil: and thou wast exceeding beautiful, and thou didst prosper into a kingdom. 14And thy renown went forth among the heathen for thy beauty: for it was perfect through my comeliness, which I had put upon thee, saith the Lord GOD."
this jerusalem clothed with glory and a crown then the people turned to other gods and defiled thier relationship with God becoming a "whore, or " harlot" ...
But thou didst trust in thine own beauty, and playedst the harlot because of thy renown, and pouredst out thy fornications on every one that passed by; his it was. 16And of thy garments thou didst take, and deckedst thy high places with divers colours, and playedst the harlot thereupon: the like things shall not come, neither shall it be so. 17Thou hast also taken thy fair jewels of my gold and of my silver, which I had given thee, and madest to thyself images of men, and didst commit whoredom with them,
18And tookest thy broidered garments, and coveredst them: and thou hast set mine oil and mine incense before them.
..... Is this of thy whoredoms a small matter, 21That thou hast slain my children, and delivered them to cause them to pass through the fire for them? 22And in all thine abominations and thy whoredoms thou hast not remembered the days of thy youth, when thou wast naked and bare, and wast polluted in thy blood.....25Thou hast built thy high place at every head of the way, and hast made thy beauty to be abhorred, and hast opened thy feet to every one that passed by, and multiplied thy whoredoms.
26Thou hast also committed fornication with the Egyptians thy neighbours, great of flesh; and hast increased thy whoredoms, to provoke me to anger. 27Behold, therefore I have stretched out my hand over thee, and have diminished thine ordinary food, and delivered thee unto the will of them that hate thee, the daughters of the Philistines, which are ashamed of thy lewd way. 28Thou hast played the whore also with the Assyrians, because thou wast unsatiable; yea, thou hast played the harlot with them, and yet couldest not be satisfied.
29Thou hast moreover multiplied thy fornication in the land of Canaan unto Chaldea; and yet thou wast not satisfied herewith.30How weak is thine heart, saith the Lord GOD, seeing thou doest all these things, the work of an imperious whorish woman;.....32But as a wife that committeth adultery, which taketh strangers instead of her husband!33They give gifts to all whores: but thou givest thy gifts to all thy lovers, and hirest them, that they may come unto thee on every side for thy whoredom.
Though she began a glorious and beautiful nation and jerusalem Her mighty city clothed with Gods Glory, many dont see this but israel broke the covenant between God and themselves and because they consistantly strayed to other gods and so many abominations done before God, He called them as they were a whore and adulterous wife, a harlot, and from times of old set forth the judgements upon israel patricularly Jerusalem and samaria.
Wherefore, O harlot, hear the word of the LORD: 36Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thy filthiness was poured out, and thy nakedness discovered through thy whoredoms with thy lovers, and with all the idols of thy abominations, and by the blood of thy children, which thou didst give unto them
; 37Behold, therefore I will gather all thy lovers, with whom thou hast taken pleasure, and all them that thou hast loved, with all them that thou hast hated; I will even gather them round about against thee, and will discover thy nakedness unto them, that they may see all thy nakedness. 38And I will judge thee, as women that break wedlock and shed blood are judged; and I will give thee blood in fury and jealousy.
39And I will also give thee into their hand, and they shall throw down thine eminent place, and shall break down thy high places: they shall strip thee also of thy clothes, and shall take thy fair jewels, and leave thee naked and bare. "
you see how this judgement fits perfectly with the whore in revelation....
rev 17 v16-17 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. 17For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled. 18And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.
isreal is the Woman, then is cared for in the desert, then the dragon pursues the woman into the desert, then you see the woman a whore sitting on the Beast in the dersert. that woman is israel from the time of mans creation before jacob from even the beginnings of adams line that produced abraham, israel and eventually Jesus.