Gun rights - for or against?
- Thread starter LeonT
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I wish to point out a central irony and leave it out there for consumption. It is, truth be told, an opinion based on anecdote.
I've lived in places with strict gun control laws and places without strict gun control laws. Here are my observations.
1. Gun control laws are not an absolute indicator for whether or not a person feels "under siege" as someone else put it. Generally, there are other factors involved. People who live very close the AZ- Mexico border feel under siege, but they would feel that way regardless of whether there were guns available or not.
2. That said, if other circumstances are similar, places with higher 2A-sanctioned gun ownership rates are typically safer, friendlier, and more open. I'm thinking specifically of areas in the Eastern US.
Granted, much of this has to do with a local mentality. Super 2A areas also seem to have higher rates of Church attendance, a greater inclination toward patriotism, friendliness toward law enforcement, etc.
Put simply, there is no absolute positive correlation between the presence of law abiding gun owners and safe communities. You can have safe communities without high levels of gun ownership. Just ask the Japanese.
More importantly, there is no absolutely negative correlation either. Many happy communities exist with plenty of guns.
This experience belies the broad array of memes being bandied about on the forum- that guns are corrupting death talismans. Or that the Christians who choose to own guns are some how of lesser value than those who do not. Most people who own guns are paranoid amateurs at life. Etc.
I take an unusual tack- if you are bothered by guns and gun ownership or feel called by the Lord not to bear arms. By all means. But that doesn't mean Christians who choose to arm themselves are somehow lesser when there is no real Biblical prescription one way or another.
I've lived in places with strict gun control laws and places without strict gun control laws. Here are my observations.
1. Gun control laws are not an absolute indicator for whether or not a person feels "under siege" as someone else put it. Generally, there are other factors involved. People who live very close the AZ- Mexico border feel under siege, but they would feel that way regardless of whether there were guns available or not.
2. That said, if other circumstances are similar, places with higher 2A-sanctioned gun ownership rates are typically safer, friendlier, and more open. I'm thinking specifically of areas in the Eastern US.
Granted, much of this has to do with a local mentality. Super 2A areas also seem to have higher rates of Church attendance, a greater inclination toward patriotism, friendliness toward law enforcement, etc.
Put simply, there is no absolute positive correlation between the presence of law abiding gun owners and safe communities. You can have safe communities without high levels of gun ownership. Just ask the Japanese.
More importantly, there is no absolutely negative correlation either. Many happy communities exist with plenty of guns.
This experience belies the broad array of memes being bandied about on the forum- that guns are corrupting death talismans. Or that the Christians who choose to own guns are some how of lesser value than those who do not. Most people who own guns are paranoid amateurs at life. Etc.
I take an unusual tack- if you are bothered by guns and gun ownership or feel called by the Lord not to bear arms. By all means. But that doesn't mean Christians who choose to arm themselves are somehow lesser when there is no real Biblical prescription one way or another.
G
I understand that people can get trained, but not everyone is trained. Or if they are trained, they may not always be careful. Even if I were trained myself, I would not trust myself around a gun simply because I know how lackadaisical I am. I am sure there are other lackadaisacal people who do carry guns, which scares me.
I know there are knives and cars and other weapons- but none of those things cause as much carnage in such a short period of time as automatic and semiautomatic weapons.
Most of these mass shooters are not criminals. They generally have clean records, so are legally able to but weapons of mass destruction. I am not trying to be hyperbolic, but Omar Manteen killed 49, which to me is mass destruction. Maybe he'd not have been able to kill as many if he could not buy an automatic or semiautomatic.
I know there are knives and cars and other weapons- but none of those things cause as much carnage in such a short period of time as automatic and semiautomatic weapons.
Most of these mass shooters are not criminals. They generally have clean records, so are legally able to but weapons of mass destruction. I am not trying to be hyperbolic, but Omar Manteen killed 49, which to me is mass destruction. Maybe he'd not have been able to kill as many if he could not buy an automatic or semiautomatic.
G
I do. But why wouldn't I? Walther had to go and make it so easy with the PPS. 
I suppose you would not carry a gun to church if you do not think anyone is there to attack you? But maybe you attend a church with violent parishioners.
Hahahaha. You know I never saw it as looking Greek before. Now that you put it that way, I'd argue it looks more Latin. Makes me think of the Papacy.
But you're right. It's a make and model of a firearm.
On the matter of guns in pews.
Carrying anywhere and everywhere is not unlike buying insurance. When you make your monthly payment to Allstate, State Farm, Nationwide, etc, do you think of all the terrible and gruesome things that could happen to you in your vehicle?
No. It's a payment. But a wise payment to make. Just in case.
Likewise, a gun on one's hip is a wise precaution. When I rack the slide, slip it in my holster, and tuck in my waistband, I do not contemplate all the gruesome things that could happen. I do not close my eyes and picture a dude looking to shoot up a Church in Colorado or some freakshow trying to kill off my colleagues at baseball practice.
Nope, it's just a couple of pounds on my hip at the ready. So easy to bring that there is no reason not to when I apply a little CBA.
But you're right. It's a make and model of a firearm.
On the matter of guns in pews.
Carrying anywhere and everywhere is not unlike buying insurance. When you make your monthly payment to Allstate, State Farm, Nationwide, etc, do you think of all the terrible and gruesome things that could happen to you in your vehicle?
No. It's a payment. But a wise payment to make. Just in case.
Likewise, a gun on one's hip is a wise precaution. When I rack the slide, slip it in my holster, and tuck in my waistband, I do not contemplate all the gruesome things that could happen. I do not close my eyes and picture a dude looking to shoot up a Church in Colorado or some freakshow trying to kill off my colleagues at baseball practice.
Nope, it's just a couple of pounds on my hip at the ready. So easy to bring that there is no reason not to when I apply a little CBA.
Very well. I understand.
My purpose here, as I see it, is not too different from yours.
I do not believe I can really persuade anti-2A people to my way of thinking through the usual means in this type of format.
I can, however, do something to dismantle the idea that 2A Christians are somehow lesser Christians at best.
My purpose here, as I see it, is not too different from yours.
I do not believe I can really persuade anti-2A people to my way of thinking through the usual means in this type of format.
I can, however, do something to dismantle the idea that 2A Christians are somehow lesser Christians at best.
I've never been part of a church where no one carried. That's just my experience, but it's worth noting.
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I grew up with guns. They are a ton of fun and can be a great hobby. As a Christian, I choose to not carry because I feel it does not fit with who we are called to be. That does not mean I don't think there are situations where guns are a good choice. I will have a family one day and I will protect that family by whatever means necessary including guns.
Let me also say that I don't think people in other countries can take their unique experience and place it on top of ours. In the same way I wouldn't bolt on modern American feminism to say politics in Qatar, I don't think it's fair to say that the laws that have worked for others will work for us. Many people don't understand what the size of the country and the lack of geographic and cultural homogeny does to the populace and social structure of the country. For instance, the entire UK is just over half the size of California and is just starting to approach the sort of demographic spread represented in the US. Though it's still a full 15 percentage points more homogeneous and doesn't (at this point) share the unique characteristics of US demographics.
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I grew up with guns. They are a ton of fun and can be a great hobby. As a Christian, I choose to not carry because I feel it does not fit with who we are called to be. That does not mean I don't think there are situations where guns are a good choice. I will have a family one day and I will protect that family by whatever means necessary including guns.
Let me also say that I don't think people in other countries can take their unique experience and place it on top of ours. In the same way I wouldn't bolt on modern American feminism to say politics in Qatar, I don't think it's fair to say that the laws that have worked for others will work for us. Many people don't understand what the size of the country and the lack of geographic and cultural homogeny does to the populace and social structure of the country. For instance, the entire UK is just over half the size of California and is just starting to approach the sort of demographic spread represented in the US. Though it's still a full 15 percentage points more homogeneous and doesn't (at this point) share the unique characteristics of US demographics.
