Gun rights - for or against?
- Thread starter LeonT
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U
That's a statement to make us feel better and to help us believe we understand their motives, but not always accurate.
There are genuinely evil people in this world. Or those raised by a system that teaches evil is good. So a child is raised with a deep conviction that violence is the answer.
While there are definitely people hiding their fearfulness with violence there are also evil people or those raised to be evil.
There are genuinely evil people in this world. Or those raised by a system that teaches evil is good. So a child is raised with a deep conviction that violence is the answer.
While there are definitely people hiding their fearfulness with violence there are also evil people or those raised to be evil.
K
Yes,that may be true.But either way we cant take away the right of law abiding gun owners because criminals may use them. Now they are telling terrorists to get a knife because its easier than getting a gun. Look at the bomb used in the concert in England. If people want to cause terror,they will find a way to do it. So why take away our protection? I think it was on an NBC report,oddly enough,after the Paris attack at the concert that a policeman here was talking about defending yourself. He said that most killing happens in the first 5 minutes,way too soon for a cop to reach you in most cases. So again,why put more restrictions on law abiding gun owners knowing it will not stop a criminal?! It makes no sense. We have the right to defend ourselves. If you want less criminals why not tighten the restrictions on them? Like bringing back the death penalty in every state for instance.
T
I agree. I also would say that evil is cowardice. Evil is deliberately turning your back on God; "suppressing the truth" as it says in Romans. It is scary and (I would say), takes courage to face up to our sins and admit that we are in need of a Savior. So suppressing that knowledge of sin and need of salvation is cowardice. That's more what I meant.
U
By that logic then why limit it to killers and terrorists? Wouldn't that apply to all mankind?
Satan's first sin was a self important desire to be above God. Not out of fear, but arrogance. Fear creates bullies, and sometimes those bullies may kill. But arrogance is what leads to deeper violence. Self importance and arrogance and self love are what guide leaders to go to war. What fuels tyrants. Not fear.
Seems so often Christians like to conform their views of the world to what makes them feel more justified or comfortable ,or what sounds more spiritual. Often at the loss of truth.
I see no psychological or biblical basis for your claim.
And by the way, I'm all for guns. With reasonable limitations and restrictions, but believe owning a gun is a valuable right.
Satan's first sin was a self important desire to be above God. Not out of fear, but arrogance. Fear creates bullies, and sometimes those bullies may kill. But arrogance is what leads to deeper violence. Self importance and arrogance and self love are what guide leaders to go to war. What fuels tyrants. Not fear.
Seems so often Christians like to conform their views of the world to what makes them feel more justified or comfortable ,or what sounds more spiritual. Often at the loss of truth.
I see no psychological or biblical basis for your claim.
And by the way, I'm all for guns. With reasonable limitations and restrictions, but believe owning a gun is a valuable right.
I like how this discussion includes varying definitions of cowardice.
How you value and define cowardice depends on how you value and define it's antonym, courage.
Honestly, I have not formulated a thorough opinion on the topic because I've found it has various and sometimes contradictory roots. Particularly in the Western understanding of the idea.
The question is this- is courage merely "grace under fire" or is it only truly courage if it is done in defense of the other virtues?
I'm inclined to side with Ugly, because I think there is such thing as competing virtues. I would also say you have to take it on a case by case basis because there are different foes.
The knife-wielding mugger who runs at the sight of a gun is not courageous. A crazed cultist who is willing to die for his beliefs is.
How you value and define cowardice depends on how you value and define it's antonym, courage.
Honestly, I have not formulated a thorough opinion on the topic because I've found it has various and sometimes contradictory roots. Particularly in the Western understanding of the idea.
The question is this- is courage merely "grace under fire" or is it only truly courage if it is done in defense of the other virtues?
I'm inclined to side with Ugly, because I think there is such thing as competing virtues. I would also say you have to take it on a case by case basis because there are different foes.
The knife-wielding mugger who runs at the sight of a gun is not courageous. A crazed cultist who is willing to die for his beliefs is.
K
I know many well educated people and a lot of them are dumb as a pet rock. There is learned intelligence and then there is common sense,most people aren't blessed with both gifts. My MIL works at a chemical company and she calls the engineers "educated idiots".lol Education is important but it doesn't take away from common sense, which is also important.
I tend to agree that not ALL felons should lose their gun rights since many felonies are non-violent in nature (think white collar crime). I do however think that it would become a legal mess to try to codify which felons should not be allowed to have firearms and which should not.
Not entirely true, most states remove or restrict the right to vote also. For some states it is only for the duration of incarceration (15 states), others until release from parole (28 states), and yet others permanently (9 states). Only Maine and Vermont have no restriction on felons voting.
http://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/felon-voting-rights.aspx#3
This I agree with fully. Here in Colorado a former felon has ALL civil rights automatically restored (including firearms ownership) ten years after release from parole or probation. I think this is a reasonable amount of time to insure that the former felon has fully rehabilitated. This is coming from someone who's ten years will be up this November.
There is a catch in the system however. Since gun stores are covered by federal law, I will still never be able to purchase a firearm from an FFL dealer. Since the Colorado legislature passed a law a few years ago requiring background checks on ALL private party sales thus steering those sales through FFL dealers, I now will not be able to purchase a firearm from a private party (legally). This will leave me in the position of being able to possess, just not purchase a firearm.
Of course I can borrow any weapon my wife may purchase
Not entirely true, most states remove or restrict the right to vote also. For some states it is only for the duration of incarceration (15 states), others until release from parole (28 states), and yet others permanently (9 states). Only Maine and Vermont have no restriction on felons voting.
http://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/felon-voting-rights.aspx#3
This I agree with fully. Here in Colorado a former felon has ALL civil rights automatically restored (including firearms ownership) ten years after release from parole or probation. I think this is a reasonable amount of time to insure that the former felon has fully rehabilitated. This is coming from someone who's ten years will be up this November.
There is a catch in the system however. Since gun stores are covered by federal law, I will still never be able to purchase a firearm from an FFL dealer. Since the Colorado legislature passed a law a few years ago requiring background checks on ALL private party sales thus steering those sales through FFL dealers, I now will not be able to purchase a firearm from a private party (legally). This will leave me in the position of being able to possess, just not purchase a firearm.
Of course I can borrow any weapon my wife may purchase
You need to remember that not every state's jury pool is determined in the same way as California. The last I knew CA's jury pool is determined by voter registration (which of course discourages persons from registering to vote) whereas here in Colorado the jury pool comes from ALL state registries (voter, drivers license, state ID, etc).
California makes it very easy to get out of jury duty by claiming financial hardship, just check the box and mail it back in (I did it twice when I lived there) whereas Colorado pretty much only gives medical excuse. I do believe that there are specific criteria that will allow the rescheduling of jury duty (not excusing from permanently).
The way that Colorado eliminates the financial hardship issue is by requiring the employer to pay a person's standard wage for the first three days of jury duty (most trials don't run over three days).
In the time I have lived in Colorado (18 years) I have been called for jury duty twice and only had to show up once (half day) prior to being cut loose.
For.
Fewer crimes in states where you can carry a concealed weapon. My whole family hunts, not one child of 33 grandchildren accidently shot another person. Only stupid people not grown up with guns have children stoot people. In fact my one sister has 5 son's, they raise deer, a buck got out, my nephew said there goes 50k, all 5 nephews got their "trank" guns to go get him. Not the guns you are talking about but the point is 7-25 can shoot and go hunting with "real" guns.
Fewer crimes in states where you can carry a concealed weapon. My whole family hunts, not one child of 33 grandchildren accidently shot another person. Only stupid people not grown up with guns have children stoot people. In fact my one sister has 5 son's, they raise deer, a buck got out, my nephew said there goes 50k, all 5 nephews got their "trank" guns to go get him. Not the guns you are talking about but the point is 7-25 can shoot and go hunting with "real" guns.