The Rapture

[VCO]

But it was a book of signs as it says at the beginning (it was 'signified, given by signs'). It was not intended to be taken literally. It was intended to convey the future in signs. That is why it has had a word for all ages.

No it was a Book to be TAKEN LITERALLY, understanding the few symbolisms used. THE LETTERS TO THE CHURCHES PROVES THAT. You think it is ALL symbolism, I BELIEVE it is only about 10% symbolism, and the REST is to be understood LITERALLY.

Beast is Symbolism for the LITERAL Antichrist (Satan possessing a World Dictator)
Frogs are Symbolism for LITERAL Demons
Beast with 10 Heads is a LITERAL 10 Nation Confederacy
Horns and Mountains are LITERAL Kingdoms or Nations
Bowls and Trumpet judgements are Symbolism for the LITERAL Judgements from the JUSTIFIED WRATH OF GOD.
Locusts with Scorpion-like Tails are Symbolism for LITERAL Demons that WILL be loosed from the Abyss to TORMENT the inhabitants of earth.

Beyond that it is to be understood just plain LITERALLY as what WILL HAPPEN IN THE FUTURE.

 

[VCO]

That's interesting! The 144,000 were the firstfruits unto God, do you have an opinion on what that means?

Revelation 14:4 KJV
These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

They WILL be the FIRST MORTAL JEWS that set foot in the 1000 year KINGDOM to repopulate ISRAEL with JESUS RULING OVER the world, from THE THRONE of DAVID, AND their descendants are the rest of the Harvest. They are the Believing Jews that BELIEVE THE PROPHECY IN ZECHARIAH 14, who wait in the eastern part of Jerusalem for the Messiah to create the Escape Route. The other half of the remaining Jewish inhabitants, are the unbelieving Jews that try to flee Jerusalem to exile, with no guarantee they can make it past the INVADING ARMIES. Prior to that, 7000 of the inhabitants in Jerusalem were killed in a massive earthquake after the TWO WITNESSES were resurrected.

The latest Census puts the population of Jerusalem, at 804,400. That most likely means there are over 500,000 casualties in Jerusalem due to the attacking Armies of the World, The Hail Stones, and the other Plagues of GOD's Wrath.

 

[Gabriel2020]

The first fruits are the Israelites, his chosen. He called them his first fruits because he chose the seed of Jacob. God set aside the firstborn male from every tribe among the Israelites before they were able to know what sin was and having no sexual activities. sound like children to me. I believe they were redeemed from the time the Israelites settled
in the land God gave them up until the time they went back into captivity by the evil nations. I also believe the 144,000 was the replacements of the first born that died in Egypt,which means it had to be 144,000 Egyptian first born that died. do the math.

 

[Issachar92]

who says Israel is the church, it was not God or Jesus or the Holy Spirit. I bet it was some preterist who first of all is lying to themselves, then they are calling God a liar, then they telling you the same lie they told themselves.

Revelation is not strictly a symbolic Book like they would have you to believe.It is God's words and you are NOT listening.. If you would listen, to some of these teachers around here, that you laugh at, they might just help you save your soul. I really don't think you know the gravity of what you are doing or do you? If you do then you are trying to bring everybody that will listen down with you. Misery loves company.

If this shocks you GOOD!,,,,maybe it will Shock you into listening to AW and the others. I know your peers are trying to tell you we are in the tribulations or at the very least just simply waiting for Jesus to come the second time. Oh by the wiay, it will be only spiritual... and that MANkind can control his own destiny. Yes You can,,You have a choice to make. Does your Soul go to Hell or does it go to Heaven...

And one other thing about 70AD....everything you can come up with that is on this side of a fairy tale, is false about 70AD,,,You have no idea of what that history was or at least do not show it.....

It was sarcasm, im on your side relax.

 

[KJV1611]

No it was a Book to be TAKEN LITERALLY, understanding the few symbolisms used. THE LETTERS TO THE CHURCHES PROVES THAT. You think it is ALL symbolism, I BELIEVE it is only about 10% symbolism, and the REST is to be understood LITERALLY.

Beast is Symbolism for the LITERAL Antichrist (Satan possessing a World Dictator)
Frogs are Symbolism for LITERAL Demons
Beast with 10 Heads is a LITERAL 10 Nation Confederacy
Horns and Mountains are LITERAL Kingdoms or Nations
Bowls and Trumpet judgements are Symbolism for the LITERAL Judgements from the JUSTIFIED WRATH OF GOD.
Locusts with Scorpion-like Tails are Symbolism for LITERAL Demons that WILL be loosed from the Abyss to TORMENT the inhabitants of earth.

Beyond that it is to be understood just plain LITERALLY as what WILL HAPPEN IN THE FUTURE.

How is the sixth seal in the future?

Revelation 6:12 KJV
And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

Peter said in Acts 2:20 that the sun turning to darkness and the moon into blood was fulfilled at pentecost, and it happened BEFORE the day of the Lord came. Could you explain how this is future?

Acts 2:20 KJV
The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:

 

[KJV1611]

Acts 2:20 KJV
The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:

If the sun is turned to darkness and the moon to blood with the opening of the sixth seal AND this happens BEFORE the day of the Lord comes... When IS/WAS the day of the Lord?

 

[KJV1611]

Revelation 6:13 KJV
And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

If you want to know who the stars of heaven are, here is one of the fallen stars, one of the untimely figs that was shaken loose from the fig tree by the rushing mighty wind:

John 1:48 KJV
Nathanael saith unto him, Whence knowest thou me? Jesus answered and said unto him, Before that Philip called thee, when thou wast under the fig tree, I saw thee.

This bible is unbelievable, I stand in awe!

 

[Issachar92]

How is the sixth seal in the future?

Revelation 6:12 KJV
And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

Peter said in Acts 2:20 that the sun turning to darkness and the moon into blood was fulfilled at pentecost, and it happened BEFORE the day of the Lord came. Could you explain how this is future?

Acts 2:20 KJV
The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:

What exactly is in the future for you? Where are we in the book of Revelation, chapter and verse, since the seals are done already? This system doesn't add up.

 

[KJV1611]

What exactly is in the future for you? Where are we in the book of Revelation, chapter and verse, since the seals are done already? This system doesn't add up.

I don't understand why the system doesn't add up? The bible, not me, says that the sun will be turned to darkness and the moon to blood BEFORE the day of the Lord comes. If the the sun turns to darkness and the moon to blood in the 6th seal, then the day of the Lord hasn't happened UP TO the 6th seal.

I'ts actually very simple, the 6th seal has already happened as well as the day of the Lord. The sun and moon (Israel, the fig tree) changed and the fig tree cast her fruit and Israel the fig tree was deroyed in AD 70... end of story, the 6th seal has already been fulfilled. I know this is hard for dispensationalist to grasp because the brainwashing of that camp is unbelievably powerful... I used to be one and it took years of bible study to deprogram.

What is future? The rapture, the second coming and the milennial reign.

 

[J7]

So is dispensationalism a cult in your view KJ?

 

[KJV1611]

So is dispensationalism a cult in your view KJ?

Yes it is. None of the beliefs are based on the biblical text.

 

[J7]

Yes it is. None of the beliefs are based on the biblical text.

You make it sound like communism, or humanism, or the other ism

 

[Enow]

John 19:33-37 KJV
But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs:
[34] But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.
[35] And he that saw it bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe.

[36] For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken.
[37] And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced.

These things were one done so that the scripture should be fulfilled...
What things were done?
What scriptures were fulfilled?

Who says YOU are not going to look upon Him Whom they had pierced? His crucifixion wounds remains for they are eternal.

Matthew 28:[SUP]24 [/SUP]But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came.[SUP] 25 [/SUP]The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.[SUP]26 [/SUP]And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.[SUP] 27 [/SUP]Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.[SUP] 28 [/SUP]And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.[SUP]29 [/SUP]Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

When He returns to actually do battle against nations that comes "against" Jerusalem in rescuing the Jews, setting His foot down on the Mount of Olives, in cleaving it in two and creating a valley as a result, the Jews will look upon Him Whom they had pierced.

 

[KJV1611]

You make it sound like communism, or humanism, or the other ism

I don't know lol, I just know it's not right... verses that contradict the view are thrown out the window by the followers. I'm off to work!

 

[KJV1611]

Who says YOU are not going to look upon Him Whom they had pierced? His crucifixion wounds remains for they are eternal.

Matthew 28:[SUP]24 [/SUP]But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came.[SUP] 25 [/SUP]The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.[SUP]26 [/SUP]And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.[SUP] 27 [/SUP]Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.[SUP] 28 [/SUP]And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.[SUP]29 [/SUP]Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

When He returns to actually do battle against nations that comes "against" Jerusalem in rescuing the Jews, setting His foot down on the Mount of Olives, in cleaving it in two and creating a valley as a result, the Jews will look upon Him Whom they had pierced.

I'm just giving bible verses, the scripture that says "they shall look upon him whom they pierced" has been fulfilled already. Just because it's mentioned again in Revelation doesn't mean it's future... most of Revelation is not future.

 

[Ahwatukee]

I'm just giving bible verses, the scripture that says "they shall look upon him whom they pierced" has been fulfilled already. Just because it's mentioned again in Revelation doesn't mean it's future... most of Revelation is not future.

Hi KJV1611,

Regarding this, in order to come to complete conclusion, the rest of the context needs to be considered. Here is the entire scripture:

"I will pour out on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the Spirit of grace and of supplication, so that they will look on Me whom they have pierced; and they will mourn for Him, as one mourns for an only son, and they will weep bitterly over Him like the bitter weeping over a firstborn. “In that day there will be great mourning in Jerusalem, like the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the plain of Megiddo. “The land will mourn, every family by itself; the family of the house of David by itself and their wives by themselves; the family of the house of Nathan by itself and their wives by themselves; the family of the house of Levi by itself and their wives by themselves; the family of the Shimeites by itself and their wives by themselves; all the families that remain, every family by itself and their wives by themselves.

The mourning of all the clans of Israel described above did not take place in Jerusalem when Christ was crucified, only by the disciples and those close to Christ mourned. The above would appear to be in favor of referring to when Christ returns to the earth to end the age where all of Israel will see Him arriving, realizing that it was their Messiah whom they pierced which will be the cause of the described wide-spread mourning.

 

[J7]

Hi KJV1611,

Regarding this, in order to come to complete conclusion, the rest of the context needs to be considered. Here is the entire scripture:

"I will pour out on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the Spirit of grace and of supplication, so that they will look on Me whom they have pierced; and they will mourn for Him, as one mourns for an only son, and they will weep bitterly over Him like the bitter weeping over a firstborn. “In that day there will be great mourning in Jerusalem, like the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the plain of Megiddo. “The land will mourn, every family by itself; the family of the house of David by itself and their wives by themselves; the family of the house of Nathan by itself and their wives by themselves; the family of the house of Levi by itself and their wives by themselves; the family of the Shimeites by itself and their wives by themselves; all the families that remain, every family by itself and their wives by themselves.

The mourning of all the clans of Israel described above did not take place in Jerusalem when Christ was crucified, only by the disciples and those close to Christ mourned. The above would appear to be in favor of referring to when Christ returns to the earth to end the age where all of Israel will see Him arriving, realizing that it was their Messiah whom they pierced which will be the cause of the described wide-spread mourning.

But when we apply scripture to your claims, they appear fraudulent

[h=3]

Luke[/h][FONT=&quot]26 As they led him away, they seized a man, Simon of Cyrene, who was coming from the country, and they laid the cross on him, and made him carry it behind Jesus. 27 A great number of the people followed him, and among them were women who were beating their breasts and wailing for him. 28 But Jesus turned to them and said, “Daughters of Jerusalem, do not weep for me, but weep for yourselves and for your children. 29 For the days are surely coming when they will say, ‘Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bore, and the breasts that never nursed.’ 30 Then they will begin to say to the mountains, ‘Fall on us’; and to the hills, ‘Cover us.’ 31 For if they do this when the wood is green, what will happen when it is dry?”[/FONT]
....................
....
[FONT=&quot]44 It was now about noon, and darkness came over the whole land[l] until three in the afternoon, 45 while the sun’s light failed;[m] and the curtain of the temple was torn in two. 46 Then Jesus, crying with a loud voice, said, “Father, into your hands I commend my spirit.” Having said this, he breathed his last. 47 When the centurion saw what had taken place, he praised God and said, “Certainly this man was innocent.”[n] 48 And when all the crowds who had gathered there for this spectacle saw what had taken place, they returned home, beating their breasts. 49 But all his acquaintances, including the women who had followed him from Galilee, stood at a distance, watching these things.[/FONT]

 

[Ahwatukee]

But when we apply scripture to your claims, they appear fraudulent


Luke

26 As they led him away, they seized a man, Simon of Cyrene, who was coming from the country, and they laid the cross on him, and made him carry it behind Jesus. 27 A great number of the people followed him, and among them were women who were beating their breasts and wailing for him. 28 But Jesus turned to them and said, “Daughters of Jerusalem, do not weep for me, but weep for yourselves and for your children. 29 For the days are surely coming when they will say, ‘Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bore, and the breasts that never nursed.’ 30 Then they will begin to say to the mountains, ‘Fall on us’; and to the hills, ‘Cover us.’ 31 For if they do this when the wood is green, what will happen when it is dry?”
....................
....
44 It was now about noon, and darkness came over the whole land[l] until three in the afternoon, 45 while the sun’s light failed;[m] and the curtain of the temple was torn in two. 46 Then Jesus, crying with a loud voice, said, “Father, into your hands I commend my spirit.” Having said this, he breathed his last. 47 When the centurion saw what had taken place, he praised God and said, “Certainly this man was innocent.”[n]48 And when all the crowds who had gathered there for this spectacle saw what had taken place, they returned home, beating their breasts. 49 But all his acquaintances, including the women who had followed him from Galilee, stood at a distance, watching these things.

The scripture I provided and the reasons cited, stands. The women beating their breasts accounts for Christ's close circle and does not represent all of the clans of Israel, as I demonstrated.

In addition, all of Israel was celebrating the Passover that very week, not realizing that they had just killed the true Passover Lamb.

 

[J7]

The scripture I provided and the reasons cited, stands. The women beating their breasts accounts for Christ's close circle and does not represent all of the clans of Israel, as I demonstrated.

In addition, all of Israel was celebrating the Passover that very week.

Ah well, that's the main thing. In the Kingdom of the Blind, the man with Google glasses is King.


Ok, little test. Spot the real scripture.

Is it A

49 But all his acquaintances, including the women who had followed him from Galilee, stood at a distance, watching these things.

or B

49 But all his acquaintances, including the women who had followed him from Galilee, stood at a distance, watching these things, beating their breasts


A or B?

 

[Bogadile]

Are the eschatology views of somebody related to their salvation Y/N?

What is my view? Of the three options I know of it would be Amillennial. It does the most justice to the words of Jesus and the Apostles in the New Testament.